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Engaging with the OSR community also runs you into the problem of finding great creators who seem like they're people you want to support and even have discussions with, only to discover that they're friends / acquaintances with or quietly supportive of absolute scumbags, either because they don't want to be blacklisted or because they have blinders on.
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Oct 31, 2018 19:47
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remember when dcc was shown to contain a racist stereotype literally named subhumans? that was a hoot, wasn't it
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Oct 31, 2018 19:49
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Kestral posted:Engaging with the OSR community also runs you into the problem of finding great creators who seem like they're people you want to support and even have discussions with, only to discover that they're friends / acquaintances with or quietly supportive of absolute scumbags, either because they don't want to be blacklisted or because they have blinders on. This is pretty much everyone in every industry and community We all knew about most of Dave Kelley's problems and lovely behavior and fetishes and we not only tolerated him, we embraced him as a member of the community Six Degrees of Problematic only became a thing when we all got into social media, if you want to guilt by association everyone you meet you're not going to have a lot of people to deal with Mors Rattus posted:remember when dcc was shown to contain a racist stereotype literally named subhumans? so don't buy it we didn't have to throw out our dicebags because FATAL had dick circumfrence
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Oct 31, 2018 19:54
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luckily you can count the number of worthwhile osr games on one hand, so you're really not missing out on much by avoiding their incredibly lovely products, writers and community
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Oct 31, 2018 20:00
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Mirthless posted:so don't buy it we also didn't go and spend our time defending the friends of its writers, or the subgenre of "adult lechery"
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Oct 31, 2018 20:17
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It's almost as if though there are inherent ideological and systemic influences within OSR as a community and as a genre of games that makes it a particularly comfortable place for toxic people, including fascists to be. That doesn't mean that good people can't be there as well, but there are reasons why so many OSR types are shitbags. You can see similar trends with the current folks in charge of White Wolf (not Onyx Path, the Swedes). This desire to retreat to a pre-lasparian golden age when games were supposedly best is something that inherently appeals to bad people, and ignores the great strides that have been done to make games more accessible to marginalized people. I played D&D back when I was a kid too and I really enjoy Kevin Crawford's work and Over the Garden Wall, but so much of the people who play OSR games make me feel unsafe as a disabled and queer person, and I think that is an important part of the conversation that is often ignored when people try to support the OSR. I really don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but I'm pretty sure that we know exactly what the good parts worth saving are, and can pretty safely dump the rest into the trash where it all belongs. Mirthless posted:I don't condone doxxing and thats really lovely but its typical of any community (including this one) when provoked. Also please don't "both sides" this. Something Awful in general is pretty lovely, but I've never seen the TG community on here descend into that sort of abusive, harassing behavior.
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Oct 31, 2018 20:18
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Anyways since it's been made abundantly clear why calling it something other than OSR is useful, I kind of like the sound of "graph paper gaming."
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Oct 31, 2018 20:40
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You don't have to look hard to find our community doing it on social media, you just have to take your blinders off. Goons have absolutely tried to get people fired, started harassment campaigns, engaged in invasions of OSR spaces and attacked friends and family of people they dont like in that community. They have receipts just like we do. Nobody fights fair online. SA practically invented this form of harassment and its ironic to hear a goon deny our community does it.
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Oct 31, 2018 20:45
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sorry, dude, you are not gonna convince anyone to stop telling people not to buy OSR poo poo because it's made by lovely people
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Oct 31, 2018 20:47
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Mors Rattus posted:sorry, dude, you are not gonna convince anyone to stop telling people not to buy OSR poo poo because it's made by lovely people I literally just said dont buy it
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Oct 31, 2018 20:50
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Mirthless posted:Goons have absolutely tried to get people fired, started harassment campaigns, engaged in invasions of OSR spaces and attacked friends and family of people they dont like in that community. They have receipts just like we do. I'm not really sure when this happened, but you may be confusing the entirety of this forum with a noted poo poo-man bad haircut haver.
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Oct 31, 2018 20:52
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Mirthless posted:I literally just said dont buy it EDIT: You are literally doing your best to prove the point that talking about problems in OSR "without immediately having the avalanche of the current OSR coming down like a pack of rabid rabid wombats" is apparently not possible. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 20:52
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Anyways since it's been made abundantly clear why calling it something other than OSR is useful, I kind of like the sound of "graph paper gaming." gee-pee-gee has a nice ring to it Mirthless posted:I literally just said dont buy it you have no point to make
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Oct 31, 2018 20:53
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Comrade Gorbash posted:You literally dropped in from loving no where to defend OSR's honor. You are precisely why people feel unsafe in that community. You are the problem. Not some toxic other. When you say there are good people in OSR, you mean yourself, and you are wrong on both counts. You feel unsafe in the OSR community because I came into a thread and politely stated an opinion you disagreed with  I'm sorry you feel threatened by me. I'm not going to pretend this isnt one of the strangest things someone has ever said to me online but I'm sorry anyway. Edit: in response to your edit, i am one person who has 16000 posts on something awful dot com so I didnt just appear here, and I feel like I have been pretty polite in my statements ITT. If you want a one sided discussion thats finw but I think you are being a little unreasonable. Mirthless fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 20:55
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Mirthless posted:You feel unsafe in the OSR community because I came into a thread and politely stated an opinion you disagreed with I’m on mobile, so pretend I put the sealion cartoon here.
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Oct 31, 2018 20:56
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Mirthless posted:You feel unsafe in the OSR community because I came into a thread and politely stated an opinion you disagreed with
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Oct 31, 2018 20:58
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Comrade Gorbash posted:The fact that you think you "politely stated an opinion you disagreed with" is absolutely a level of self delusion that makes me think the OSR community is unsafe for people, yes. Can you break down how I was rude (or threatening) because I have trouble seeing when I am. It would be helpful for self improvement.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:00
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Mirthless posted:Can you break down how I was rude because I have trouble seeing when I am. It would be helpful for self improvement.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:01
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Anyways since it's been made abundantly clear why calling it something other than OSR is useful, I kind of like the sound of "graph paper gaming." I liked that PROG acronym from earlier. It's punchy and easy to remember. Mirthless posted:You feel unsafe in the OSR community because I came into a thread and politely stated an opinion you disagreed with WARNING: THIS IS A SERIOUSPOST RESPONSE. The problem is that you're trying to downplay a terrible thing that happened. Meinberg got doxxed and felt unsafe and threatened by OSR grogs, yes? You have to accept this, both because to not do so would violate the principle of bona fides by which any decent person lives their lives (where if someone makes this kind of accusation, it makes sense to assume they have a good reason until proven otherwise), but also try to silence an oppressed voice. If you assume they're telling the truth, then the OSR has Problems. A community that does that is not a community worth defending - exactly like ours if we doxxed people and tried to hurt them. Trying to argue we, too, are rotten MIGHT be true, but it's irrelevant. 'Someone else is doing it too!' is not a good defense and never has been. The better response, the sane response, would be to say 'poo poo man, sorry to hear that. I'm part of that community, is there anything that could be done to make it more accomodating?' and try to fix the reported problems within it. Both-sidesing is the coward's response, and people are dogpiling you because this is not the time to take a coward's way out of tackling the flaws in our society. We can do better - and that means you can, too.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:02
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Meinberg posted:I’m on mobile, so pretend I put the sealion cartoon here.  Edit: This was supposed to post the sealion comic but for some reason i don't understand it didn't display at all
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Oct 31, 2018 21:03
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This went zero to sealion in record speed.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:03
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Meinberg posted:I’m on mobile, so pretend I put the sealion cartoon here. Awful has integrated imgur uploads, I've got you. 
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Oct 31, 2018 21:03
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Comrade Gorbash posted:I'm not your loving therapist, my dude, but you can start with the fact that this request is itself incredibly rude. Ok. I'm still not sure what I did wrong but you're entitled to feel how you want to feel.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:04
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replace "bears" with "osr" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWmQbk5h86w
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Oct 31, 2018 21:04
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Dude this is a public discussion forum not a private conversation.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:04
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Mirthless posted:Dude this is a public discussion forum not a private conversation. That is the message you took away from this?
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Oct 31, 2018 21:05
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Mirthless posted:Ok. I'm still not sure what I did wrong but you're entitled to feel how you want to feel.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:05
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Mirthless posted:Dude this is a public discussion forum not a private conversation. Yeah, and in either context, you're doing the sealion thing. Although at this point in time I'm more bewildered by the fact that apparently my image link worked, just not in a way I can see? That's wild, SA forum software.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:07
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Mirthless posted:We all knew about most of Dave Kelley's problems and lovely behavior and fetishes and we not only tolerated him, we embraced him as a member of the community Where were you squatting that Shmorky being a diaper-eating pedo was widely-known an accepted knowledge before being outed a few years ago? I doubt OSR people care that much about their image to outsiders if they're fine mutely sharing a community with stalkers, harassers, and fascists. You can try to cast a magic corncob spell on me by pointing to Lowtax or GBS or whatever, but I don't think Lowtax at his worst is on the same level as the worst examples of OSR writers. Even the mods and admins of SA have agreed that GBS at its nadir was intolerable and have been concerned about cleaning it up. Excising the politicalthreads has helped a lot and I think it's cool that mods like Jeffrey do seem to listen and think about concerns people send them. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 21:09
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Nuns with Guns posted:Where were you squatting that Shmorky being a diaper-eating pedo was widely-known an accepted knowledge before being outed a few years ago? I read literally any of his webcomics If you didnt know kelly was a pedo sex weird after reading that poo poo i don't know what else to tell you Mirthless fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 21:12
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Y'know it's kind of telling that Mirthless has responded to like five people but then ignored the serious long(ish) response to what he was doing wrong I wrote up. It's almost...like...he really was only interested in defending the OSR's honor instead of actually making sure it's a good community...?
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Oct 31, 2018 21:12
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Transient People posted:Y'know it's kind of telling that Mirthless has responded to like five people but then ignored the serious long(ish) response to what he was doing wrong I wrote up. It's almost...like...he really was only interested in defending the OSR's honor instead of actually making sure it's a good community...? I'm phone posting and its hard to reply to everyone when im being dogpiled. God drat dude how am I supposed to keep up?
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Oct 31, 2018 21:14
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Transient People posted:Y'know it's kind of telling that Mirthless has responded to like five people but then ignored the serious long(ish) response to what he was doing wrong I wrote up. It's almost...like...he really was only interested in defending the OSR's honor instead of actually making sure it's a good community...? to know all there is about mirthless, simply scope their rap sheet
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Oct 31, 2018 21:14
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Mirthless posted:I'm phone posting and its hard to reply to everyone when im being dogpiled. God drat dude how am I supposed to keep up? Focus less on defending yourself and more on learning? It seems more productive. You don't need to respond to every barb. It's the mark of a gracious man (or woman) that they ignore petty insults to focus on what really matters.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:17
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Serf posted:to know all there is about mirthless, simply scope their rap sheet Yes, I have died on some embarassing hills Good for you, you found the secret code to winning every argument. An up like, retweet and subscribe to you.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:17
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it's almost like he's a disingenuous and whiny rear end in a top hat, yes
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Oct 31, 2018 21:17
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Mirthless posted:I'm phone posting and its hard to reply to everyone when im being dogpiled. God drat dude how am I supposed to keep up? Perhaps the true winning move.....is not to play.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:17
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Mirthless posted:Yes, I have died on some embarassing hills don't forget to donate to my patreon
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Oct 31, 2018 21:18
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Mirthless posted:I read literally any of his webcomics I've never gone out of my way to read shmorky's comics and they were banned here before I registered. Maybe don't go out of your way to find perverted webcomics to psychoanalyze if you're concerned about your mental health?
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Oct 31, 2018 21:20
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Mr. Maltose posted:Perhaps the true winning move.....is not to play. but then who would go to bat for the osr??
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Oct 31, 2018 21:21
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