|
Mystic Mongol posted:I never really dug into the beta, so I don't know. I'll share a few random things I noticed. This sounds like a great corebook. All the things most players will need are provided, while leaving lots of things to expand on in future releases.
|
# ? Oct 14, 2018 22:38 |
|
|
# ? Jun 9, 2024 14:29 |
|
I hear it breaks the pattern of each Clan getting a bushi, a courtier, and a shugenja in that the Scorpion are denied a bushi school. They instead get Yogo shugenja, whom I love dearly but will always consider "splatbook" material. I really like the "bushi, shugenja, courtier, wildcard to show Clan style" model for core book schools. Shame. My group simply removes the void point cap with regard to flaws.
|
# ? Oct 18, 2018 21:35 |
|
The courtier school is already a Bayushi school so maybe they thought it'd be weird to have two Bayushi schools in the starter book.
|
# ? Oct 19, 2018 03:18 |
|
Can't the Bayushi school take the bushi powers though? Seems like just at coming at a bushi class from a different direction if so. I am waiting for my copy to arrive, so I can't check myself. So glad Matsu Berserker is in though.
|
# ? Oct 19, 2018 03:29 |
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:Can't the Bayushi school take the bushi powers though? Seems like just at coming at a bushi class from a different direction if so. I am waiting for my copy to arrive, so I can't check myself. Yes, Bayushi Manipulator can take Kata. They're not bad in a fight either, if you can pick a disad on an opponent in combat.
|
# ? Oct 19, 2018 03:33 |
|
SpaceViking posted:Yes, Bayushi Manipulator can take Kata. They're not bad in a fight either, if you can pick a disad on an opponent in combat. That is much more interesting conceptually that some bog standard Scorpion What Stabs Good.
|
# ? Oct 19, 2018 03:46 |
|
Every courtier school in the beta could take kata, and anything seems silly when you thoughtlessly give it a reductive summary. Would you boot out Kakita Duelists from core for being "Cranes What Stab Good" in the name of including Asahina Artisans? I don't know what you think the (overused) phrase "bog standard" means but I'd say there's plenty conceptually interesting about the Scorpion martial tradition of fighting dirty as hell. I'm sitting here with a PC who's been a "Bayushi Manipulator" for months because he had no (official*) better fit for his actual character concept of being a proud swordsman, and he and I are put off. Not that I won't be getting this book anyhow. *we will likely give him Kakita school rules and slap the Bayushi name on it
|
# ? Oct 19, 2018 04:26 |
|
SuperKlaus posted:Every courtier school in the beta could take kata, and anything seems silly when you thoughtlessly give it a reductive summary. Would you boot out Kakita Duelists from core for being "Cranes What Stab Good" in the name of including Asahina Artisans? I don't know what you think the (overused) phrase "bog standard" means but I'd say there's plenty conceptually interesting about the Scorpion martial tradition of fighting dirty as hell. I'm sitting here with a PC who's been a "Bayushi Manipulator" for months because he had no (official*) better fit for his actual character concept of being a proud swordsman, and he and I are put off. Not that I won't be getting this book anyhow. So much of your school is determined by your skill list, I don't think blurring the lines between Bushi and courtier is inappropriate at all. It is pretty disingenuous to put up duelists as your example when they are the main thing the Crane clan has as its notable thing, much like the scheming manipulative Scorpion is right up there with Shinobi for the Scorpion. Like, I am not saying that the Scorpion don't deserve a more basic fighter job. Far from it. Everyone needs more of everything, but I don't think Bayushi Manipulator is anything close to as weird as replacing Duelist with Artisan would be.
|
# ? Oct 19, 2018 18:21 |
|
The intent for the corebook was that every main family in the clan gets a school, instead of doing the old corebook thing of leaving some families to the wayside in order to do the typical 'bushi, courtier, shugenja' setup. This was to make every family's specialties as apparent as possible. Whether it was a good choice or not is debatable, but I do understand why they did it, as someone who came into L5R the first time and was like 'wait, they talked about this family, but this family has no schools??'
|
# ? Oct 21, 2018 02:31 |
|
I appreciate your measured responses to a bit of bad attitude on my part. Thank you. I feel the core product, being the starting point for a theoretical new player, should ensure all basic archetypes are represented across all clans. Bayushi Bushi have been there since I was a kid excitedly digging through my 1e core book, back when "courtier schools" as an entire concept were splat material, so their absence now shakes me. What's done is done, though, and it breaks no deals for me. I may yet come in with a proper rant after seeing the magic rules, though. In other news FFG is putting notorious LCG card Feast or Famine on the Restricted List! And monkeying around with the Role rules. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/10/22/the-role-of-player-choice/ I really do like the commitment they're showing to keeping the game on a competitive track.
|
# ? Oct 23, 2018 17:43 |
SuperKlaus posted:I really do like the commitment they're showing to keeping the game on a competitive track. With Netrunner retired, is the L5R LCG the biggest thing they have going at the moment, competitively-speaking? Is the Star Wars LCG still running/even that big? (obviously not counting X-Wing/Legacy in this, as those are certainly competitive but they aren't LCGs)
|
|
# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:04 |
|
Drone posted:With Netrunner retired, is the L5R LCG the biggest thing they have going at the moment, competitively-speaking? Is the Star Wars LCG still running/even that big? As far as competitive card games go they’re down to Game of Thrones, L5R and Keyforge, IIRC. I don’t know what’s bigger.
|
# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:09 |
|
SuperKlaus posted:I appreciate your measured responses to a bit of bad attitude on my part. Thank you. I feel the core product, being the starting point for a theoretical new player, should ensure all basic archetypes are represented across all clans. Bayushi Bushi have been there since I was a kid excitedly digging through my 1e core book, back when "courtier schools" as an entire concept were splat material, so their absence now shakes me. What's done is done, though, and it breaks no deals for me. I may yet come in with a proper rant after seeing the magic rules, though. Yeah, I totally get it. I was anxious to see if Matsu Berserker was in the corebook until it got confirmed. No one wants their favorite school to get overlooked. The one school for each family approach is pretty good and representative at least. I have not even touched the magic rules yet. Historically magic is either totally worthless or totally game breaking with little room between, so I am interested to find out which we get.
|
# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:25 |
|
I'm a bit surprised we got nothing on the minor clans, after the Mantis were previewed in the beta. The reasoning people gave regarding this being the core rulebook and all make sense admittedly, but I'm still somewhat disappointed that the new edition's take on the Moshi has yet to be revealed and such.
|
# ? Oct 23, 2018 18:45 |
|
Poor Unicorn, they were just getting some momentum and now Feast goes on the restricted list. Well maybe they can get something together for World's before it hits the list. Lion have definitely fallen quite a bit and this is going to put them more in the hole. Dragon still seems pretty strong even losing Feast which they were basically going to do anyway come January As a Scorpion I never really cared too much about Feast because I was rarely attacking with enough to break a province and usually just threatening a ring or undefended honor loss. Playing other clans and hitting Feast when they could really take advantage of it was huge though and it's a card that really punishes new players a lot. I'm a little surprised Restoration of Balance wasn't added as well, it can be almost as crippling and basically says that against non-Scorpion clans Dragon can bid 5 while their opponents can't really bid very high until they know where Restoration is. In both cases you can end up with a tremendous swing without really giving up a lot. Either way, one of the reasons Dragon is so strong right now is that their provinces are very punishing to attack into. I guess I misread the way roles were going to work last time because I thought they already announced two would be active at all times going forward, anyway I like this change. Gives them more leeway to print element and role locked cards, though I'd prefer to see more of the latter and less of the former.
|
# ? Oct 23, 2018 19:00 |
Roland Jones posted:I'm a bit surprised we got nothing on the minor clans, after the Mantis were previewed in the beta. The reasoning people gave regarding this being the core rulebook and all make sense admittedly, but I'm still somewhat disappointed that the new edition's take on the Moshi has yet to be revealed and such. There's a PDF for the Mantis clan available on their website apparently? Or is that a relic from beta?
|
|
# ? Oct 23, 2018 19:14 |
|
Drone posted:There's a PDF for the Mantis clan available on their website apparently? Or is that a relic from beta? Ah, it looks like they've updated the beta stuff they had and added to it significantly. That's cool. Hopefully we get some more minor clans soon then. I like that they provided both a bushi and a shugenja school right away, despite there being only one "family" in the clan. If they keep having two schools per minor clan release instead of just one, that'll be great. Not having to rework some other clan's thing if you want to be a member of a minor clan outside their stereotypical role will really nice.
|
# ? Oct 23, 2018 19:36 |
|
Tortoise Clan is in the GMs kit too.
|
# ? Oct 23, 2018 19:48 |
|
Neat. Do they also have two schools, out of curiosity? Also, I hope the PDF versions of the books come soon.
|
# ? Oct 24, 2018 18:06 |
|
WerrWaaa posted:Tortoise Clan is in the GMs kit too. Wait, aren't they the Imperial Smugglers, basically?
|
# ? Oct 24, 2018 18:54 |
So does FFG just outright own the L5R IP now or is it still a licensing deal?
|
|
# ? Oct 24, 2018 19:05 |
|
LeSquide posted:Wait, aren't they the Imperial Smugglers, basically? They are essentially the Emperor's Duty Free Shop, yes.
|
# ? Oct 24, 2018 19:09 |
|
Drone posted:So does FFG just outright own the L5R IP now or is it still a licensing deal? They purchased it.
|
# ? Oct 24, 2018 19:11 |
|
One Turtle school and yes it's the Kasuga Smuggler
|
# ? Oct 24, 2018 21:25 |
|
SuperKlaus posted:I appreciate your measured responses to a bit of bad attitude on my part. Thank you. I feel the core product, being the starting point for a theoretical new player, should ensure all basic archetypes are represented across all clans. I think I, personally, disagree with this. I think the current setup of one school per family is more valuable for new players, because it allows anyone to simply play the family that catches their eyes. No more seeing Kaiu and going 'woah awesome cool blacksmith engineers who dont take no poo poo?' And then being told the kaiu engineer is in another book. Same with yogo etc.
|
# ? Oct 25, 2018 23:17 |
|
Old school players: Are Gaki able to be damaged by fists charged with Ki? Asking for a monk.
|
# ? Oct 29, 2018 20:52 |
|
Pope Affidavit IX posted:Old school players: Are Gaki able to be damaged by fists charged with Ki? Asking for a monk. Without an edition to reference I don't know what to say, because outside of a given rule set this is a "vampires don't exist so they have any weakness you want them to have" sort of situation. Generally I'd say yes because monks punching ghosts is very on-brand for Rokugan. KittyEmpress posted:I think I, personally, disagree with this. I think the current setup of one school per family is more valuable for new players, because it allows anyone to simply play the family that catches their eyes. No more seeing Kaiu and going 'woah awesome cool blacksmith engineers who dont take no poo poo?' And then being told the kaiu engineer is in another book. Same with yogo etc. They could have had it both ways with a Bayushi Bushi school alongside the Courtiers and when the Bayushi get two schools to all other names' one it's a "because we said so" situation. Would have simply matched the Crab and Unicorn in having five core book schools. I have reviewed the core book versus the beta and checked out all the differences. It's overall extremely similar, which is to be expected. I regretfully drove myself up a tree seeing the effect keywords in spell previews. I compiled a list of changes that I saw and was going to post it but as it grew pretty large it became infeasible to post. I'll summarize and it's still going to be kind of GENERAL GAME MATTERS
CHARACTER SCHOOLS There were many changes to School and Mastery Abilities but almost none of them changed the school radically, so I'll save text and not report everything.
TECHNIQUES GENERALLY
KATA
KIHO
INVOCATIONS The big source of balance problems has entered its
RITUALS
SHUJI
MAHO
EQUIPMENT
CONFLICTS
SuperKlaus fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Oct 31, 2018 |
# ? Oct 31, 2018 04:57 |
|
I liked that Crab shugenja got access to katas in addition to invocations, instead of the typical shuji. I thought it was cool to have a more martially-capable shugenja at the cost of being crap at social niceties. Does anybody else get that arrangement? And on a semi-related note, what is the Dragon shugenja school like?
|
# ? Oct 31, 2018 06:56 |
Dick Burglar posted:I liked that Crab shugenja got access to katas in addition to invocations, instead of the typical shuji. I thought it was cool to have a more martially-capable shugenja at the cost of being crap at social niceties. Does anybody else get that arrangement? And on a semi-related note, what is the Dragon shugenja school like? I'm pretty sure the Kuni are the only shugenja school that get kata. More than just katas, the Kuni Purifier school has a really strong theme, and that theme is beating up ghosts. They start with four spells, three of which are for dealing with ghosts and one of which is stoneskin. The school is good at skulking about, hanging out in haunted forests, and totally ignoring strife when dealing with demons. They're a super rad school. The dragon shugenja school CAN learn Shuji powers, I guess. Mostly they're pure mages, though, and they can cast spells as the wrong element, which is fun.
|
|
# ? Oct 31, 2018 07:57 |
|
I don't know if anyone is following the World Cup but Nyxnyxnyx is a regular poster here and dominating as a Scorpion for the Singapore team. As Taiwan doesn't even have 4 people that play online, I'm rooting for Singapore. America out already because "lol world cup" and America has a long history of ignoring the meta outside the U.S. and then getting trounced by it.
|
# ? Oct 31, 2018 11:46 |
|
Dick Burglar posted:I liked that Crab shugenja got access to katas in addition to invocations, instead of the typical shuji. I thought it was cool to have a more martially-capable shugenja at the cost of being crap at social niceties. Does anybody else get that arrangement? And on a semi-related note, what is the Dragon shugenja school like? Soshi get Ninjitsu powers! Overall I am extremely happy with the way schools work in the new edition. Changing what skills give you full xp towards advancement, while still letting you do what you want for half, is a great way to incentivize them to not dump all points into swords and rings. Raising stats not counting for advancement is also huge too.
|
# ? Oct 31, 2018 12:01 |
|
PaybackJack posted:I don't know if anyone is following the World Cup but Nyxnyxnyx is a regular poster here and dominating as a Scorpion for the Singapore team. As Taiwan doesn't even have 4 people that play online, I'm rooting for Singapore. Oh poo poo, didn't realise nyxnyxnyx is a Goon. I've been catching some games on YouTube and since Australia didn't make the cut I'm rooting for Singapore now!
|
# ? Oct 31, 2018 12:47 |
|
Lord_Hambrose posted:Soshi get Ninjitsu powers! Overall I am extremely happy with the way schools work in the new edition. Changing what skills give you full xp towards advancement, while still letting you do what you want for half, is a great way to incentivize them to not dump all points into swords and rings. Raising stats not counting for advancement is also huge too. Wait, there are separate ninjutsu powers now? I don't recall Shosuro ninjas actually having those, just katas and shuji and rituals I think. Maybe I'm just misremembering?
|
# ? Oct 31, 2018 22:59 |
|
Dick Burglar posted:Wait, there are separate ninjutsu powers now? I don't recall Shosuro ninjas actually having those, just katas and shuji and rituals I think. Maybe I'm just misremembering? Can't check right now, but as there are only 4 powers they might just have them all in their school ranks.
|
# ? Oct 31, 2018 23:07 |
Lord_Hambrose posted:Can't check right now, but as there are only 4 powers they might just have them all in their school ranks. They are. Nobody gets blanket "Ninjutsu" access.
|
|
# ? Nov 1, 2018 00:35 |
|
Rolled on the Heritage table and now I gotta pick between a mahō or ninjutsu technique
|
# ? Nov 2, 2018 05:09 |
|
Is there any minimum refresh for void points beyond the first session, or are they almost entirely intended to be gained through adverse effects? I'm not certain whether to interpret "A character begins the game with Void points equal to half their Void Ring, rounded up..." as occurring at the beginning of a campaign or instead at the beginning of a session. Usually the text talks about effects on per scene/per session bases or discusses campaigns as a whole, so I don't have anything to infer from.
NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 05:29 on Nov 2, 2018 |
# ? Nov 2, 2018 05:27 |
|
You get them at the start of the session too.
|
# ? Nov 2, 2018 07:09 |
|
Now that I have read through the whole book I have to say I am hype to start playing. I really like the direction that FFG are taking the rpg, so hopefully they will continue to do good things. All the school especially are good because by boiling the special techniques down to a starting technique and a capstone you get a stronger flavor by having to keep these two abilities distinct from other schools. The skull lists are something I love. It is a pretty elegant way to guide advancement in a logical way (it is literally what your instructors want you to learn) while still letting you ultimately do what you want. Just little things like the Shiba school having shuji as options and certain ranks and not kata does a lot to provide the flavor of a more refined scholar and not just a bodyguard. This is also the first edition I have wanted to play a Scorpion. The Soshi Capstone is amazing.
|
# ? Nov 2, 2018 12:38 |
|
|
# ? Jun 9, 2024 14:29 |
|
Skelettin posted:Rolled on the Heritage table and now I gotta pick between a mahō or ninjutsu technique It irks me in a big way they kept that drat Heritage table. Let's see, a new Technique that can break the boundaries of my school and in the case of Invocation lets me access the entire spell list via Importuning rules, or...move a Ring up 1 and another down 1. Why don't we just go back to "3d6 down the line" ability scores while we're at it? Lord_Hambrose posted:The skull lists are something I love. It is a pretty elegant way to guide advancement in a logical way (it is literally what your instructors want you to learn) while still letting you ultimately do what you want. Just little things like the Shiba school having shuji as options and certain ranks and not kata does a lot to provide the flavor of a more refined scholar and not just a bodyguard. I agree with these statements. The skill lists really do sell the brand of each dojo. And I can step back from fighter-wizard forever war to recognize that the Soshi capstone is bloody hilarious.
|
# ? Nov 3, 2018 18:02 |