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Agent355 posted:I'm consistently amazed that there are still some staunch 'actually this game is good?' defenders. For some people "good" just means they had fun. It's not a great metric to go by but it's not really that big of a sin either. I don't think I've seen anyone in this thread has tried to claim this game is a technical masterpiece. Now there have been a lot of people claiming its an unplayable mess which is just demonstrably false.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:11
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corn in the bible posted:are there any good mods that add actual good quests etc poo poo to do to fallout 4? not settlement stuff though because i hate it Tales From The Commonwealth is worth a look, I think. Adds a bunch of quests all over the map, some short, some long, some with companions, some not. If you get a map icon you didn't get before there's probably a quest there.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:19
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I had a lot of fun. Public event gave me a left arm piece that turns me invisible when I get hit in melee every 30s. Gonna go nuts with crafting next time. Got my first shotgun, and a bunch of 10mm handguns shortly before quitting time.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:24
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Apparently even without uncapping your FPS, framerate still affects gameplay. You can outrun most enemies by just looking away or at the ground. https://twitter.com/teajayylmao/status/1057506067071074309 I don't think this will even be partially solved by hardcapping the game's framerate so it can't be hosed with in the .ini file. This is likely some engine-physics hardcoded poo poo that will need to basically be gutted. (And SHOULD HAVE been gutted a while ago.) For perspective; the problem of player movement and action speed being tied to client side performance was an issue in Ultima Online, which itself was a multiplayer conversion of Ultima 8's single player engine. SwitchbladeKult posted:For some people "good" just means they had fun. It's not a great metric to go by but it's not really that big of a sin either. I don't think I've seen anyone in this thread has tried to claim this game is a technical masterpiece. Now there have been a lot of people claiming its an unplayable mess which is just demonstrably false. Pretty much. There's fun to be had in the game, and it mostly-works - but the biggest glaring flaws will need to be addressed ASAP or else the launch date really ought to be pushed back. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 00:31
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If something this flawed was discovered an hour into beta launch I'm excited to see what shenanigans we'll see on a month
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Nov 1, 2018 00:37
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SwitchbladeKult posted:For some people "good" just means they had fun. It's not a great metric to go by but it's not really that big of a sin either. I don't think I've seen anyone in this thread has tried to claim this game is a technical masterpiece. Now there have been a lot of people claiming its an unplayable mess which is just demonstrably false. Technical merit isn't the only way a game can be bad. I think the worst offense I'd point to for this game is how it seems to be completely unfocused generalized design that doesn't really fully satisfy anybody. I think if you wanted an online survival game there are better options, if you wanted a co-op loot game there are better options. This is just this weird mish-mosh of ideas that are mostly oil and water. It's not just technically bad, it's just bad design. Of course people can and will enjoy it anyway and that I can understand, but I don't know who can look at this game and go 'oh yeah, they clearly knew what they were doing here, look at these great intentional design decisions.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:37
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Imagine how they're gonna respond to actual hackers when that becomes a thing
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Nov 1, 2018 00:39
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:yesterday on stream shroud was pvping and his buddy was lighting people up for zero damage because he was level four, he thought his pistol was just really bad Yeah but shroud's friend was TAKING damage despite being level 4 - so you might be able to grief sub level 5 players if they have a teammate who can PVP.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:42
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Agent355 posted:Technical merit isn't the only way a game can be bad. I think the worst offense I'd point to for this game is how it seems to be completely unfocused generalized design that doesn't really fully satisfy anybody. I think if you wanted an online survival game there are better options, if you wanted a co-op loot game there are better options. This is just this weird mish-mosh of ideas that are mostly oil and water. It's not just technically bad, it's just bad design. My impression so far is it's pretty much just fallout 4 except where your buddies are also running around doing stuff with you, and you generally aren't sitting through NPC dialogue trees. For better or worse. The most questionable design decisions so far that I've encountered seem mostly to be the engine's aforementioned issues, the strange pvp system, and the voice chat being a pain in the butt.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:44
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Donovan Trip posted:If something this flawed was discovered an hour into beta launch I'm excited to see what shenanigans we'll see on a month Marcus Kincaid voice: No refunds!
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Nov 1, 2018 00:44
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Spacedad posted:My impression so far is it's pretty much just fallout 4 except where your buddies are also running around doing stuff with you, and you generally aren't sitting through NPC dialogue trees. For better or worse. is it easy to report people for voice chat infractions? Allchat is always on right? Is it clear who is talking if there are multiple people around? I wonder how are they planning on handling punishments for that.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:48
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:is it easy to report people for voice chat infractions? Allchat is always on right? Is it clear who is talking if there are multiple people around? I wonder how are they planning on handling punishments for that. Voice chat is completely hosed & a confusing mess but you can report players by clicking on their icon on the map or their name under 'recent' in social tab. I didn't notice if there's a way to mute or block players from the server list (people are saying they couldn't find one) but I will test that feature out with some goon volunteers next beta session.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:50
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Spacedad posted:Voice chat is completely hosed & a confusing mess, but you can report players by clicking on their icon on the map or their name under 'recent' in social tab. hosed in what sense? I missed this
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Nov 1, 2018 00:51
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I described my beta experience as being "meh" and kind of uneventful but I'm also really wanting to play again? does anyone know where some of the public workshops are located, I didn't see any personally and that might be a good time I tried googling it but all I got was "HERE'S WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT CAMPS IN 76 PLEASE TURN OFF YOUR ADBLOCKER"
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Nov 1, 2018 00:52
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:hosed in what sense? I missed this Mainly: No push to talk setting so if you're using a mic it will ALWAYS be on. I mean, this is something that could EASILY be patched before launch. But it's annoying in beta. Also the options of how the different modes for voice chat are a bit unclear. I think you're 'supposed' to be able to set it to only hear and talk with your team, but I'm not sure. You can at the very least just turn off ingame voices and use discord. Voice chat system in general is real confusing atm so I wouldn't contend with it tbh.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:53
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gently caress consentual pvp. Real griefing is accomplished by telling scary stories that will spook a person into logging off. These spoopy stories will probably be really loud racial slurs.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:57
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Spacedad posted:My impression so far is it's pretty much just fallout 4 except where your buddies are also running around doing stuff with you, and you generally aren't sitting through NPC dialogue trees. For better or worse. Okay so the PvP stuff is just a given pile of goofiness which I think most people can agree on but look at stuff like the survival mechanics. You have to eat and drink in the game but what purpose is that really serving? In a game like rust or w/e some online pvp survival game those mechanics can make sure that people have to go out and keep exploring and can't just literally turtle on their pile of stuff forever. So they fortify their bases against intruders and have to venture out on (theoretically) risky resource gathering missions. In FO76 you take your base with you, and the pvp is non-existant, so there is no 'force people to do x' reason for it to exist, so what is it really doing? Some people just enjoy those mechanics which is why they're toggle-able in FO4 and thats fine, but since it's enforced here the people who DONT like the mechanic itself would be turned off if it wasn't so easy as to be ignorable. In survival games like Subnautica you effectively 'solve' food and water eventually, so they function as a goal to overcome (I'd argue the best design here would be to actually just straight remove the mechanic once a player accomplishes some task like building a farm big enough to produce infinite rations). So it can be something you overcome but in FO76 it's so inconsequential that it doesn't accomplish that either? So why is it in the game at all. I'd argue there are lots of decisions that don't seem to be made with a goal in mind. You could generally classify all the people interested in this game into a few general buckets. People who want to explore, people who want to do pvp, people who want to just gently caress about co-op with friends. Yet it doesn't seem like the game is designed for any group of these in particular, each group is (likely) going to leave only half satisfied. Thats bad design. it's happened in the game industry as a whole alot, various big games that try to do too much and appease everybody only to realize that you can't do that and it makes everything half baked.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:01
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Lunatic Sledge posted:I described my beta experience as being "meh" and kind of uneventful but I'm also really wanting to play again? I claimed the one at the Gorge Junkyard. This interactive map has them all labeled (the green crossed hammer/wrench icon) https://www.ign.com/maps/fallout-76/appalachia I turned off voice chat immediately and have no regrets about it.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:01
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Spacedad posted:Mainly: No push to talk setting so if you're using a mic it will ALWAYS be on. LMAO no ptt? drat this game is so Real KirbyKhan posted:gently caress consentual pvp. Real griefing is accomplished by telling scary stories that will spook a person into logging off. This is mainly why I was hoping its both clear who is talking and then that it would be easy to report... but then how do they figure out if a report is banworthy?
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Nov 1, 2018 01:03
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Been watching Jon of MatN play through 76 and honestly, it doesn't look or play horribly Sure, that may be because the BETA's kept the idiots out, but the map is definitely large enough to go off on your own and not meet anyone for hours - so depending on how populated each server can get, you can easily play it like Fallout 4 without much issue Although in some places, the enemies are stupidly populous and you're going to burn through all your ammo extremely quickly - I highly suggest finding as many explosives as you can "When you've played as much Fallout 4 as I have, it's kinda hard not to develop slightly sexual feelings towards office fans."
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Nov 1, 2018 01:05
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Harry Potter on Ice posted:This is mainly why I was hoping its both clear who is talking and then that it would be easy to report... but then how do they figure out if a report is banworthy? the answer is they don't. there is no way they're gonna log and record all voice chat in the game, and even less way that they're gonna employ people to go over those imaginary logs looking for racist language or whatever. If it really bothers you I would just turn off voice chat entirely.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:07
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Also this veers into the  territory and that's fine. I'll throw up a big ole disclaimer that this is all just speculation on my part and I don't have anything really backing it up beyond some general guess work. I think this style of game, the one where you wander around and collect stuff and craft stuff and do things like that, is generally not the type of game that you know if you're into or not very quickly. I think No Man's Sky would be a good example in that you could likely play for 20 hours or so before you realized how horribly repetitive it was and how none of the upgrades were very interesting. This sort of game can really lull you into complacency for a good while before the cracks become obvious. So given that I look at the way the beta is being handled, with you only allowed to play brief periods days apart (a method I haven't really seen before), and being offered only to pre-order people. You're being incentivized to pre-order a product that has a no-return policy so you can play it early, however they won't let you actually play enough to get to that point where you might start to see the cracks due to the way the beta is structured. Then there's that dumb letter that basically said 'we don't know what sort of game we made, make your own fun' and I just don't think the devs have alot of confidence in their own product. It's being presented so oddly and with some tactics that make me suspicious. I just get the gut feeling that there isn't going to be much diversity in quests or exploration, and the crafting system is going to bottom out after 10 hours and suddenly alot of people will be unable to return a product that is ultimately unfinished. I think the only thing seperating this game from No Mans Sky is that nobody seems to really give a poo poo about this game compared to the obscene hype for NMS.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:08
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Agent355 posted:(food & drink mechanics) The food & drink mechanics are pretty much there to give the player a reason to keep exposing themselves to radiation outside of the environment or enemies. They generally don't slow up the gameplay very much even when you don't have any perks that offset them. But you basically do have to manage a reasonable supply of food, water, and meds. I found it pretty easy and only had to mouse click for some food/water every so often - it's hard for me to judge but I'd say it's roughly about as or less frequent than keeping yourself fed than say, minecraft or games like The Forest. Dealing with rads accumulation has always been a fallout staple, and that's pretty much what food & drink revolves around. Also, some of the better food items you can cook or find give you bonuses. And rotting food itself is a crafting item for useful stuff. I haven't explored too deeply beyond the low-to-mid-level areas, but according to players that have, the more dangerous irradiated zones in the game have much scarcer clean food and water. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 01:11
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Bardeh posted:the answer is they don't. there is no way they're gonna log and record all voice chat in the game, and even less way that they're gonna employ people to go over those imaginary logs looking for racist language or whatever. If it really bothers you I would just turn off voice chat entirely. oh for sure I never thought they would, this is the same thing league of legends had a hard time with for years. I was hoping they had figured something out (lol)
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Nov 1, 2018 01:13
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If they actually wanted stress test their game, they would have an open beta. If they actually wanted to beta test their game, it would run for weeks. The beta is a way to drum up preorders and nothing else. It's time limited because the game quite obviously does not have enough content or a compelling enough gameplay loop to sustain interest. Or, at the very least, Bethesda is not confident enough in that content or gameplay loop to run a normal beta. There is no other satisfactory explanation as to why they've structured it like they have.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:14
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Agent355 posted:Also this veers into the this sort of beta used to be really common, they've already started releasing small patches between the betas (mostly just fixing enemy AI, AP drain when running, little poo poo like that according to tha youtubes), we're getting like eight hours on thursday, not only can you totally cancel your pre-order and still be in the beta (at least on console, no idea about PC) but several people (including myself) have already done that I agree they come off as not confident and I share a similar worry about the game just... abruptly running out of poo poo to do, this was an issue I ran into with Fallout 4 as well after I stopped giving any fucks about the main quest, but I don't think there's anything especially sinister about the structure of the beta
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Nov 1, 2018 01:17
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Eiba posted:Oh god I'm playing the game now and there's two twich streamers making rape jokes and racist jokes during the character creator and there's no loving way to turn it off. KirbyKhan posted:gently caress consentual pvp. Real griefing is accomplished by telling scary stories that will spook a person into logging off. Someone had figured this out too apparently 
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Nov 1, 2018 01:19
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Personally I think bethesda should push back the launch date to December or January - but the launch of the game is basically going to be the game's Early Access Beta. So we'll just have to make do. I don't think the engine issues will be solved for a good deal of time, and until then we'll likely just get a workaround.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:19
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Spacedad posted:Personally I think bethesda should push back the launch date to December or January - but the launch of the game is basically going to be the game's Early Access Beta. So we'll just have to make do. I don't think the underlying engine issues can be fixed, or surely they would have done it by now. They must be aware of it, if it's been an issue for as long as it has. The workaround will likely just be an fps cap, which sucks. In all their previous singleplayer games, they just shrugged and let people get on with it. But they can't do that in a multiplayer game that has PVP in it, or it will wreck the game very quickly.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:21
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deathbagel posted:I also had a lot of fun, but you are right about the UI. It's pure, 100% garbage. I'll get used to it like I do every Bethesda game, but you can tell it was designed 100% with console gamers in mind and they didn't change it at all for PC gamers. Agent355 posted:You're being incentivized to pre-order a product that has a no-return policy so you can play it early, however they won't let you actually play enough to get to that point where you might start to see the cracks due to the way the beta is structured. Then there's that dumb letter that basically said 'we don't know what sort of game we made, make your own fun' and I just don't think the devs have alot of confidence in their own product.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:24
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Spacedad posted:Apparently even without uncapping your FPS, framerate still affects gameplay. You can outrun most enemies by just looking away or at the ground. That said, looks like it can become pretty extreme, so I'm sure there will be no end to hilarity in the absence of what should probably inherent sanity checks in code. Also doesn't speak too well for the extent to which there was any testing/consideration for PC, given Fallout 4 VR had sort of an inverse problem, where apparently the thing was only tested on 4K systems, because the code would output desktop resolution to the VR system resulting in a disgusting pixelated mess, meaning they were only testing on top end systems. Here it's a wonder pushing near 300fps wasn't counted for, but otherwise not going to be in reach for most people.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:24
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Do they actually have a beta feedback forum buried somewhere, or are they relying on reddit and social media to see what people stumble into?
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Nov 1, 2018 01:25
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Bardeh posted:I don't think the underlying engine issues can be fixed, or surely they would have done it by now. They must be aware of it, if it's been an issue for as long as it has. The workaround will likely just be an fps cap, which sucks. In all their previous singleplayer games, they just shrugged and let people get on with it. But they can't do that in a multiplayer game that has PVP in it, or it will wreck the game very quickly. Yeah I think so too. I don't know if gamebryo's physics can be uncoupled from the client's FPS or not. If not we might be talking about creating a whole new physics engine from the ground up. Here's a pie-in-the-sky best-case-scenario: 'They actually DO have a solution for it, but due to other issues keeping that version from seeing primetime just yet, it's not in the beta build of the game.' I mean I would hope that's the case as I want this game to be unfucked, but I'm not holding my breath. We're likely just going to see a duct-tape-and-glue workaround.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:26
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Donovan Trip posted:If something this flawed was discovered an hour into beta launch I'm excited to see what shenanigans we'll see on a month tweet my meat posted:Imagine how they're gonna respond to actual hackers when that becomes a thing Bethesda might want to hurry up on those private servers, otherwise get used to watching people magically zoom around the map at 200+ FPS causing all kinds of chaos.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:29
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Is there a list of engine-quirk related bugs and jank from older Bethesda games anywhere? It would be interesting to read what else might be possible.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:32
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Agent355 posted:You're being incentivized to pre-order a product that has a no-return policy so you can play it early Wasn't worth almost hitting my ISP's 1TB/month bandwidth limit thanks to the game re-downloading twice and still not completing far enough for me to even play it. Plus I'll be gone until the 5th which is apparently when they'll stop running betas so I guess I'm never going to play this game unless there's a really deep sale and it somehow picks up enough traction (EG: good patches) for me to even want to try playing it. Despite all that, I think it's a neat idea for a AAA (sorta) company like Bethesda to try and dip its toes into the Rust-like arena. They're failing already but if they managed to make ESO more interesting than its launch offering (not that I know, I only hear things) then their live update team for FO76 might actually be able to build this into something fun.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:35
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Can't wait til hackers trigger infinite nukes dropping on the map by changing a single number in some ini
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Nov 1, 2018 01:41
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NeurosisHead posted:Do they actually have a beta feedback forum buried somewhere, or are they relying on reddit and social media to see what people stumble into? This is a stress test for their servers, not a "real" beta. That's also why the hours are short - so that they can cram as many people playing in as short a window as they can.
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Nov 1, 2018 02:03
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https://www.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/9suwl5/unlocking_your_fps_gives_you_speed_hacks_just/quote:cerealkillr: 
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Nov 1, 2018 02:08
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So the takeaway from the .ini file is if you gently caress with it you could potentially flag your account for cheating. So much for field testing that. Also: https://www.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/9suwl5/unlocking_your_fps_gives_you_speed_hacks_just/e8s2bn1/ quote:They asked if I knew anything about software development. I said I had a theoretical degree in software development. They said welcome aboard. The reference. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 02:51
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