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im sad we dont get more benji in these chapters because he owns bones
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Oct 30, 2018 15:48
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Bad Seafood posted:Interesting to note that's twice now Kurapika's crew has inadvertently made Kurapika's true goal of recovering the eyes that much harder by strengthening the fourth prince. First Kurapika leaks the existence of Nen (allowing Tserriednich to learn it), then Melody's performance (possibly?) saves his life. Benjamin is pretty much the platonic ideal of a warrior-king. He can fight and lead his troops into battle, but also has a sharp mind (albeit one that occasionally needs to be held back for a moment or guided in the right direction) and knows when it's time to be the general guiding things rather than on the frontlines himself, even if he doesn't like it. He's utterly reprehensible in a lot of ways, but he's definitely an effective leader and it's easy to see why his men admire him. And yeah, I also like that Halkenberg has turned out to be entirely true to his principles, and rather than being ineffectual or a non-entity it's made him a serious force to be reckoned with. It's particularly good because at first it seemed like that was where he was heading, responding to Momoze's murder with genuine emotion and a strongly worded letter of all things, and then that turned out to be setup for his attempted revolution through regicide. Halkenberg's great.
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Oct 30, 2018 17:56
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I think Benjamin is starting to lose. He has lost 3 soldiers already. You may say 'but with his ability, he keeps their nen ability!', but a person can use actively one ability, not three at the same time. It's always better to have a faction with 4 soldiers with one ability each, than to have 4 abilities for yourself, that's my point.
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Oct 30, 2018 18:50
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Turin Turambar posted:I think Benjamin is starting to lose. He has lost 3 soldiers already. Whats to say he can't use more then one ability at a time. There has been nothing to suggest he is limited to using one at a time.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:10
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ok but four people playing coop on one side in starcraft is better than one person playing that side
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Oct 30, 2018 19:26
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Eej posted:ok but four people playing coop on one side in starcraft is better than one person playing that side True. But Benjamin still has like 13 or so dudes under him, all of whom know Nen. While everyone else has like 1 or 2 people that know nen.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:30
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that's chrollo's limitation, not benjy's.
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Oct 30, 2018 19:56
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Turin Turambar posted:It's always better to have a faction with 4 soldiers with one ability each, than to have 4 abilities for yourself, that's my point. Kurapika disagrees.
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Oct 30, 2018 20:12
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Blaze Dragon posted:Kurapika disagrees. kurapika got repeatedly owned by his own moronic steal chain
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Oct 30, 2018 20:13
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Eej posted:ok but four people playing coop on one side in starcraft is better than one person playing that side He's still maintaining his intel network, and given the comment this chapter; he also has a guy who can either read memories, view the past of an area (Psychometry), or otherwise "recall" the events that led to this most recent guard's death. So even when he loses someone, he gains valuable information. Same as what happened with Musse, he now has a permanent watch on Camille as well as knowledge of her hatsu which effectively puts her out of the running until she starts using her Guardian Spirit. Every death on Benjamin's side strengthens his position, although it will eventually hit the point of diminishing returns. The advantage Benjamin has here is the ability to sit (relatively) safely in his room while still targeting his siblings and gathering information so he can maneuver his men to the best spots. He's playing the macro game in this starcraft scenario while everyone else has to play the micro.
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Oct 30, 2018 21:45
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Yeah that's true but I'm just saying generally speaking it's better to have your power spread out amongst multiple agents instead of being concentrated on one actor who can only handle so many activities at any given time. I'm just saying that losing one of his men isn't really a "net positive".
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Oct 31, 2018 03:52
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despite benjy's appearance, he isn't really a warrior. he can use nen and has a nen beast, but his real power is having loyal subordinates to follow his orders, like a chess player and their pieces. that's how he plans, that's how he acts. losing access to a particular chess piece mid-game would hinder his ongoing strategy, so benjy created a hatsu to avoid that. i wouldn't be surprised if he eventually modified his hatsu to implant those inherited powers in other subordinates, but that's more of a long term goal and he's not living through this.
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Oct 31, 2018 04:16
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Eej posted:Yeah that's true but I'm just saying generally speaking it's better to have your power spread out amongst multiple agents instead of being concentrated on one actor who can only handle so many activities at any given time. I'm just saying that losing one of his men isn't really a "net positive". Ideally, every one of his guards should strive to survive any mission, but if they do die their effort is not completely lost. Going off Musse's sacrifice, there can be situations where death is more beneficial to Benjamin than self preservation of any individual actors since now he has a permanent watch on Camille. At the end of the day this is a conflict where there's no guarantee for each of his guards to walk out alive so losses are unavoidable for all parties involved. Benjamin is just in a position where he doesn't lose everything when one of his men die, but everyone else does. Imagine how differently Kurapika would have acted if the guy who could turn into a boat had passed on his ability before dying. I agree that Benjamin can't afford to lose all his men since his biggest strength in this battle is having the ability to place his men where he sees fit. If he loses all of them he's lost that advantage. But Benjamin's Baton does carry the reality that only some deaths are "acceptable" up to a point. Rihan and Yushohi are two people who absolutely don't benefit Benjamin if they die since being able to maneuver 'Predator' and "how to get away with murder" is the biggest strength of those two people. And in particular Rihan needs to be divorced from the flow of information in order for his ability to not be accidentally invalidated. But Vincent's death isn't as heavy a blow since his ability is presumably fully offensive and now he's given Benjamin a ranged weapon to utilize with his already potent aura. Depending on whether or not Halkenburg's ability breaks the loyalty clause, Benjamin may also have gained a shield in the form of Yu-gi-Oh which will still help him against other princes and nen users. And a random bit of side speculation; I had to look up a list of Benji's guards to remember who was where, and had forgotten that one of his guards is currently in jail. Vict was assigned to Momoze, and since she was killed by strangulation all of the guards were arrested and detained. While Yushohi is apparently able to avoid arrest since Sale-Sale died under "natural causes". I've been convinced for some time that Benjamin's guardian spirit will have an ability to purposely kill any of Benjamin's men in order to strengthen Benjamin himself since his resolve is that "by his hand" he'll fix his country. Kind of like an inverse to Halkenburg's guardian spirit which is democratic and treats Halk as an equal member of the group. I now have a situation for revealing this supposed ability because his GS can go out and kill Vict who is effectively out of the game and pass that ability on to Benjamin.
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Oct 31, 2018 05:03
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To back up a little bit, I feel if Theta was using Gyo, she wouldn’t be perplexed as to what is going on now. Honestly, I feel like Gyo has been so criminally underused for most of the manga to the point that I don’t think a lot of hunters/Nen users realize that it is a nen technique.
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Oct 31, 2018 13:10
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Everyone naturally uses Gyo or they couldn't see the nen beasts at all. Gyo doesn't undo or counter illussory or mind altering nen abilities, though.
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Oct 31, 2018 17:16
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Everyone naturally uses Gyo or they couldn't see the nen beasts at all. Gyo doesn't undo or counter illussory or mind altering nen abilities, though. Gyo is pooling more aura to parts of the body. Every nen user can see aura normally, Gyo justreveals stuff hidden with 'in'.
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Oct 31, 2018 17:27
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Two Tone Shoes posted:Everyone naturally uses Gyo or they couldn't see the nen beasts at all. Gyo doesn't undo or counter illussory or mind altering nen abilities, though. This is not true, people don't naturally use Gyo at all. Gyo is an active ability, it isn't passive.
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Oct 31, 2018 17:41
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It's been some years but I thought one of the very basic tennets of the "advanced" techniques was always using Gyo so you don't get surprised by people with nen abilities. I understand you have to use it but I'm talking more a trained behavior that any competent nen user is always doing regardless so it's not something that has to be shown being used. The same way any time we see two nen users throwing punches we don't need narration and art showing them shifting their aura to different spots to make it more effective -- we just assume it's something they do. My point is that Gyo doesn't stop a Hatsu from working if the conditions are met if part of the Hatsu's deal is obfuscation. Or in this case nen beasts. Two Tone Shoes fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 19:35
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My two cents: -'Gyo' has two meanings : the general 'put more aura into a part of body to enhance it', and the more specific, gyo, as in ' use gyo in your eyes to see'. It even makes sense, sometimes in the real world words gain a second, related meaning that way, because a word is very often used in a particular way. -You could say that technically, every nen user uses a bit of gyo, as they have a nen aura covering their entire body, including their eyes, enhancing them and allowing to to see nen thingies, normally. -Gyo isn't something that can be on/off, you can use up different amount of your aura in your eyes, and put more effort into it. -Similarly, 'in' is something that you can use with different degrees of effort and aura expenditure. -Also, I would say gyo and in count as a sub-skill of nen, in the sense people can be more or less skilled in their use, depending of their training, experience and talent. -I guess gyo vs in is something where the user who used a stronger gyo or in wins. Using a basic gyo isn't enough to discover the in of a master like Hisoka, A Togashi-like explanation would say that you can have a gyo skill (4) and a nen expenditure (3) that make up a total Gyo level 7. This level 7 beats in of level 6 or less. So we can't say "why this Hunter is so stupid, if only he would have used gyo..." We have to understand they are using gyo already unless they are newbies, but maybe they didn't use a gyo strong enough for the situation. It also would explain why Uvogin, a loving Spider experienced in combat, fell on to the trap of not using gyo to see the chain, as if he was a wet behind the ears Hunter who barely knew about in. Kurapica's use of chains was done as to indicate he was a manipulation user, not a summoner, that kind of epxlains why Uvo didn't consider using a stronger gyo to surpass Kurapica's in. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Oct 31, 2018 |
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Oct 31, 2018 20:55
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Also using Gyo isn’t “free”, you’re using aura that could be covering other parts of your body.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:37
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that's what gets gon hosed up in the tower early on. he uses gyo to see some yoyos but nothing to defend himself and ends up half dead
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Oct 31, 2018 21:44
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Manatee Cannon posted:that's what gets gon hosed up in the tower early on. he uses gyo to see some yoyos but nothing to defend himself and ends up half dead No, he was using Zetsu so he could feel their nen without being distracted by his own.
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Oct 31, 2018 21:55
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Yeah, he achieves Zetsu instinctively and stuff there. Though I think that arc also shows that the "better Gyo vs In" thing isn't the case, since Zushi and Killua were both able to see Hisoka's In the very first times they used it, and likewise Gon couln see it when he fought Hisoka later. Wing even commented that things would have gone differently when Hisoka fought Kastro if Kastro had just used Gyo.
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Oct 31, 2018 22:43
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using gyo is a deliberate action that requires concentration. not everyone has gone through the netero school systematic training program like gon and killua. practicing gyo until it becomes an automatic reflex is the ideal, but most nen users we've seen haven't reached that level. some of the scrubs might not even realize how vital it is.
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Oct 31, 2018 23:04
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but the downside is people like kurapika can trick advanced nen users with poo poo like perma conjuring stuff (or hisokas clown redirection magic loving with peoples heads but thats just him being a trickster)
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Oct 31, 2018 23:35
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Turin Turambar posted:-I guess gyo vs in is something where the user who used a stronger gyo or in wins. Using a basic gyo isn't enough to discover the in of a master like Hisoka, I agree with the second part. The trick comes down to knowing your opponent is using 'in' to hide their ability. The bouncer that works for Kurapika did so immediately when Mizaistrom uses his referee card to freeze those goons, revealing his aura cage he summons. Likewise Killua used Gyo when he fought Shoot to see if the floating hands were real or not. If you're primed to suspect foul play, you can look for it. Otherwise your opponent can sneak something past you.
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Oct 31, 2018 23:35
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Gyo is weird because I thought it was something you had to do to see Nen but then they kind of forget about it for the Chimera Ant Arc. Even though Knuckle would have really could have used it.
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Nov 1, 2018 00:10
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I was under the impression that we're far along enough that everyone is assumed to be using it unless it's specified they're not. Like how no one talks about using Ryu but they're obviously shifting their aura around to maximize its power and we don't get them thinking "I'll shift 80% of my aura to my right hand before he notices!!!!"
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Nov 1, 2018 00:52
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The problem with that is that Gyo has a visual cue.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:09
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Eej posted:I was under the impression that we're far along enough that everyone is assumed to be using it unless it's specified they're not. Like how no one talks about using Ryu but they're obviously shifting their aura around to maximize its power and we don't get them thinking "I'll shift 80% of my aura to my right hand before he notices!!!!" This assumption only really applies to people we know to be skilled Nen users (like the Zodiacs and Phantom Troupe), and even then, maybe not to some Conjurers, Manipulators, and Specialists. People who've just awakened their Nen (e.g., the Heil-Ly Mafia) aren't necessarily using Ryu or Gyo properly. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 01:19
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Eej posted:I was under the impression that we're far along enough that everyone is assumed to be using it unless it's specified they're not. Like how no one talks about using Ryu but they're obviously shifting their aura around to maximize its power and we don't get them thinking "I'll shift 80% of my aura to my right hand before he notices!!!!" It has a visual cue because it’s moving aura to a particular area and focusing it. Much like Gon does with JaJanken. Unless they’re shown to be using it, assume they aren’t. For example like when Kurapika and Gon are chasing down the spiders and Kortopi, Machi and Chrollo make the active effort to turn it on to spot who was chasing them.
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Nov 1, 2018 01:57
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Though as Hisoka pointed out in his fight with Gon, telling him that him using Gyo would not have changed the result of him getting Bungee gum stuck to him.
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Nov 1, 2018 02:46
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During the punch, at least. He could have avoided it in the other cases, real and hypothetical. But that's part of the point; Gyo isn't a perfect counter, but it's still an important thing to use. Though there have been a few things in this latest arc where that wouldn't have been so helpful. Stealth Dolphin, Silent Majority, the mini-hamster Momoze's guardian beast made, the beasts themselves if you're one of the princes, etc. Basically, there's three normal "levels" of visibility:
Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 03:57
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looks like Tserriednich's power is more or less King Crimson uh good luck heroes
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Nov 1, 2018 16:39
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Relin posted:looks like Tserriednich's power is more or less King Crimson Oh, dear, Mangastream is gonna have to try and explain THAT?
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Nov 1, 2018 16:45
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Relin posted:looks like Tserriednich's power is more or less King Crimson That's pretty funny, as a pair of chapters ago some people jokingly guessed the same. Talk about prophetic. In a way it doesn't seem that weird to me, as this Arc had already some Jojo references (nen beasts = stands, the nen beasts stopping Halkenburg bullet with the tip of the fingers like at the start of Part 3), so this cements on Togashi making a riff on some of the most famous shonen works with different HxH arcs. CA arc had several DBZ references, like Meruem being so similar to Cell and his ability of absorbing other people's nen to grow stronger, and Gon-san was a clear homage to Goku turning super-saiyan (except... you know, better, as it had a proper dramatic setup, ithad more emotional resonance, and it had some internal logic and long-lasting consequences).
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Nov 1, 2018 16:56
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Turin Turambar posted:That's pretty funny, as a pair of chapters ago some people jokingly guessed the same. Talk about prophetic. Back during the Election arc there was a riff on Rotation from Jojo part 7 as well as flat out Jotaro Kujo.
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Nov 1, 2018 18:38
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https://7sama.com/manga/hunter-x-hunter/9194/chapter-387 Holy poo poo This still kind of confuses me but at least it's better than "It just works" edit: But at least we can remove a hallucination being Tser's nen beasts ability. Theta and us all just experienced the original sequence of events before Tser began to edit things. Back to square one
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Nov 2, 2018 08:13
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It's pretty ironic that Theta wasn't lying: mastering zetsu is key to master nen, at least if you are Tse!!
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Nov 2, 2018 08:37
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Mangastream's translation is a bit better.
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Nov 2, 2018 08:37
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