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juggalo baby coffin posted:apparently the beastmen can just raze poo poo without giving you a prompt to fight them? i used my special ptra necrotect on the red desert capital ruins and a couple turns later it just gets razed to the ground without asking me if I want to defend or autoresolve or whatever? You need to build up a garrison. Depending on the situation, it can take several turns before the whole thing's not an autoresolve.
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Nov 1, 2018 06:24
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Cythereal posted:Horses and wolves, which are already very well represented. Also cows/oxen, dogs, sheep, goats, and cats. War hound units are already used by a number of factions. It's funny to imagine Horses being Iconically Western European when they are arguably even more iconic and important in Asia, stretching from Persia to China. Red Hare is real, and strong and he's my friend.
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Nov 1, 2018 06:28
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Put the effort into making a temporary mod list to try out SFO in the middle of this modpocalypse thanks to Steam Workshop going through some poo poo, and I'm surprised at how many mods that add new functionality into the game don't need the Community Mod Framework at all. It'll tide me over until the vampirates come, I guess.
toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 12:45
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Panfilo posted:Stuff that regenerates being able to run away significantly improves their survivability. Undead are naturally immune to psychology too, so it isn't easy to quickly make them rout. That's true, it does change Crypt Horrors and Varghulfs quite a bit. With characters though, it barely makes a difference, and for ghouls it's just an annoyance.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:11
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It irks me so much that I can't make Drakenhoff my capital as von Carnstein unless I gift/retake the minor settlement you start with with the Region Trading mod.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:15
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Azran posted:It irks me so much that I can't make Drakenhoff my capital as von Carnstein unless I gift/retake the minor settlement you start with with the Region Trading mod. What do capitals do in this game exactly?
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Nov 1, 2018 15:04
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kidkissinger posted:What do capitals do in this game exactly? Trade routes are capital to capital, which is a pain in the rear end for Belegar in particular. ZeusJupitar fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 15:10
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Yeah some factions get screwed over on trade simply due to geography. Angrund relies heavily on Pfieldorf and Matorica being friendly, since they're the only direct paths into the capital. In contrast, Franz or Tyrion's start is easier in that you get a coastal city right out of the gate, which gives access to any other coastal connected capitals. I don't like the system because of this. It would have been better if the trade income you get is based on how clear the path is, so instead of having zero access, you just get greatly reduced amounts, or research for trade-heavy factions to improve this.
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Nov 1, 2018 15:38
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https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1058011040460558338 AAAAAA WHY ISN'T IT NEXT WEEEEK!!
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Nov 1, 2018 16:02
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Or if we could just change our capitals at will.
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Nov 1, 2018 16:03
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Gejnor posted:https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1058011040460558338 its gone what was it?
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Nov 1, 2018 16:04
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I know the Climate system seems pretty unpopular for people, and I think a big part is that aside from being able to colonize anywhere, the actual climate of the area is just an arbitrary penalty, and the fact that the climate happens to be frozen/desert/magical forest/etc doesn't really matter for squat. It would have been more interesting if units got bonuses and other effects based on climate- Temperate- Grazing is good in this biome, which gives vigor bonuses to horse-based cavalry, and leadership bonuses to most human infantry. Temperate Islands- Provides an ideal haven for raiders. Norsca, Dark Elf, and Vampire Coast factions get sea movement bonuses when starting in these biomes. Savannah- Plenty of game is present, giving bonus vigor and replenishment for many beast type units and cavalry. Badlands- The harsh crucible of where many WAAGHs form, Greenskins get bonus fightiness in Badlands, and Savage Orc units get additional small physical resist. Magical Forest- Strange magic lets some move through with ease, and helps channel the winds of magic. Bonus winds of magic and Forest Strider units get bonus movement speed. Jungle- Jungles teem with stinging insects and dangerous predators. Non Lizardmen factions get vigor penalties, and units with poisoned debuff suffer additional penalties in Jungle biomes. Mountain- Long established as home to the Dwarves, there are surprising passages through mountains. Dwarves get increased underway intercept chance and melee defense in Mountain biomes. Frozen- Creatures that live here need to be particularly aggressive to survive. Norscan monster units get bonus movement speed and reduced global recruitment time in Frozen climates. Desert- Few can survive in a place where water is so scarce. Reduced siege holdout time for non-Tomb Kings factions, and reduced vigor for non-undead units. Chaos Wastes- Magic flows unpredictably, which can be a blessing or a curse to armies. Greatly improved winds and winds regen, but also greatly increased miscast chance and reduced magic resist for all non-Chaos/Beastmen factions. Some races, through research or other means, might get bonuses or offset penalties in some biomes. Empire could get Dwarven Guides to give bonus movement and ambush chance in Mountain biomes, for example. Greenskins might ignore some penalties if their army's fightiness is high enough. Brettonia might get bonuses based on what Erranty battle they chose. And Skaven might ignore settlement penalties altogether with late-game research.
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Nov 1, 2018 16:14
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Southpaugh posted:its gone what was it? https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1058011673741742080 Luther Harkon let's play.
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Nov 1, 2018 16:20
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So basically they've brought back the treasure system from Heroes of Might and Magic system of all things, except its seemingly randomized. You go into a special stance once you think you know where it is, giving you the precious loot!
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Nov 1, 2018 16:21
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John Charity Spring posted:https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1058011673741742080 Unf
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Nov 1, 2018 16:27
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Gejnor posted:So basically they've brought back the treasure system from Heroes of Might and Magic system of all things, except its seemingly randomized. and the ranking system from sid mier's pirates as well
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Nov 1, 2018 16:54
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Whorelord posted:and the ranking system from sid mier's pirates as well Luthor can finally fulfill his dream of being a King's Advisor.
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Nov 1, 2018 16:56
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I dont know posted:Luthor can finally fulfill his dream of being a King's Advisor. to king luthor harkon, of course
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Nov 1, 2018 16:59
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Whorelord posted:and the DANCING system from sid mier's pirates as well
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Nov 1, 2018 17:03
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Panfilo posted:I know the Climate system seems pretty unpopular for people, and I think a big part is that aside from being able to colonize anywhere, the actual climate of the area is just an arbitrary penalty, and the fact that the climate happens to be frozen/desert/magical forest/etc doesn't really matter for squat. It would have been more interesting if units got bonuses and other effects based on climate- The biggest frustration for me is the Dwarfs/Mountain stuff in Climate, mixed with how little work CA did on it. Like Greenskins, VC, Norsca, and Skaven conquering anywhere? Sure. Dark Elves forming their own new slave colonies? Sure. Lizards Great Planning the Old World? Sure. Empire or Brettonia forming colonies in the Wastes? Good luck, but sure. But for whatever reason in my mind, the mountains are Dwarf only. Greenskins, VC, and Skaven are also allowed as conquerors. WElves are allowed due to their mechanics. Norsca is allowed if it's coastal. But holy gently caress should Bretonnia not be in Mountains. The Empire should not be in Mountains. Elves should not be in Mountains. And off the side of that, Dwarfs should not be anywhere but Mountains/Badlands/Southlands. Dwarfs should not be conquering half the Empire, unless it's to give the Empire AI the provinces back. So of course what do you see every single ME game due to power levels/AI weirdness? Bretonnia gobbling up all it's nearby mountain districts, and the Dwarf AI gobbling up all the Southern Empire. It's just amazingly poorly implemented. CA games are built around central powers with a circle of weaker powers slowly spiraling around you, which you can slowly but surely expand into. WH1 boosted this with "storied" gameplay loops built around the regional occupation and player dynamics. For example Wissenland will always early/mid game desperately need the player if Empire, and provide you a great way to start your expansion. Thing is, the expectation is that you will confederate/conquer them yourself during their weakness, and they are left "safe" because only other humans can take that zone, leaving it for the player regardless. And this is all scripted. The Wissenland AI is scripted to attack past it's means and thus open itself up to the player. In WH2 that scripting is still in place. But now Wissenland will open itself up and whoops the Dwarfs AI saw a nearby kingdom get very weak, time to war dec and invade it! Or Skarsnik will just smash and grab it early, leaving the Empire in a very precarious spot as that was one of it's main expansion routes and now it's been cut off/you have a stronger Skarsnik you might not actually be able to beat reliably. Another great example is the VC/Dwarf border. In WH1 the Zhufbar stuff is the mid-endgame for Dwarfs, so it's suitably stocked up with goodies. In WH2 it's right next to the VC who can now take it, so they do. And since the VC AI gets such huge bonuses, it leads to the unstoppable VC menace that reliably conquers the Old World. Or hell, how about the Bretonnia issue. Where Louen is scripted to fight Norsca until he takes some losses, then he'll focus more on rebuilding Bretonnia. Which in WH1 meant he was an annoyance to Norsca players and then would be a great thing to take revenge on. In WH2 however he can take land, so he almost never hits enough losses to want to retreat. So you run into a similar AI scripting issue where Louen is just hanging out in Norsca, which he's fully conquered, while Bretonnia has been razed to the ground by Beastmen. Or how certain AI factions are scripted to go after certain things, but if anything changes in that scripting they don't really fix themselves, so you end up with major factions just idling forever, unable to go back to conquering/become an actual adversary. Or how CA has built faction growth around expected revenue being lower ( see Empire and how little it makes initially ) because of it's expansion setup, and any changes to that expansion setup can very easily stop a VH/Legendary game, with ME being dozens of potential expansion setup wrenches that never existed before. There are dozens of ways they could have remade the Old World map/scripts/setup to favor ME. There is so much they could have done, so many factions they could have fiddled with, so many resources they could have moved around. They did zero of it. Instead they just shoved in a new conquer anywhere system and shrugged, and the AI breaks in a half dozen different ways every time you play it. And sometimes these breaks are neat/good ( I actually really like Skarsnik conquering Empire provinces and becoming a threat, same with other Greenskins when it happens. ), but most of the time it's just a hot loving mess. Add in how rare it is that'll you'll ever see a mixing of New/Old, and it's been a really hard sell to uninstall TW1 to play ME. Also sadly all the Climate mods are made by crazy people and still don't really fix the core issues. You'd need a mod that puts a malus on the Bretonnia/Dwarf/Empire AI to keep them from taking weaker nearby territories, would need to move the resources out of the Zhufbar region to help slow down the VC, and I'm not even sure what you'd need to do to get Louen to eventually leave Norsca again to help on the home front. And nobody has ever done anything similar to that before.
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Nov 1, 2018 17:05
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If Vampire Counts didn't put pressure on Zhufbar/Peak Pass then Dwarf AI tends to steamroll all the World's Edge Mountains. Having them as a threat makes it easier to confederate those factions (as Dwarves) and as other races takes pressure off dealing with a Blue Wave. Part of the problem is that on harder difficulty settings, the AI isn't penalized for settling in hostile climates as much as a human player would be. Settling in Chaos Wastes, for example, is a pain in the rear end because it takes forever to get a walled settlement up (assuming your race can build them) then you have such a huge public order penalty you'll be dealing with strong chaos stacks spawning to try to raze your settlement. Some ways to help the problem: -A form of region trading (I know there are mods for this) that encourages the AI to hand over territories to you if it is green climate or originally owned by your faction. So Angrund, for example, might offer to vacate Pfieldorf since he knows you'll need it more than he will. This could be affected by how many settlements in the province you already control (more likely to give it up if it is the 1 you need to fully control the province), how favorable the climate is to you, etc. -Better scripting for the AI that prevents it from just being idle or derping out if things don't play out the way they're supposed to. -More opportunity for emergent behavior for the AI to have things play out in more unique ways. The problem with hard locking where races can conquer is that each campaign becomes really samey. Its bad enough you seldom fight the Wood Elves in most campaigns due to their isolationism, restricting Dwarves and other races in the same way would make the problem worse.
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Nov 1, 2018 17:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5sN5aP8dVA This is the Vampirates LP on the Total War channel, by the way (in case the twitter link doesn't show).
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Nov 1, 2018 18:16
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Legendary Ptarmigan posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5sN5aP8dVA Yo ho ho and a bottle of FUN!
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Nov 1, 2018 18:32
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Panfilo posted:If Vampire Counts didn't put pressure on Zhufbar/Peak Pass then Dwarf AI tends to steamroll all the World's Edge Mountains. Having them as a threat makes it easier to confederate those factions (as Dwarves) and as other races takes pressure off dealing with a Blue Wave. I'd like more ways to interact co-operatively with allies in general, even though it is TOTAL WAR. Like, why can you not share ritual resources in vortex? It makes sense, especially for skaven and DE, that you might have to strongarm your racial brethren into sharing, or pay them, or kiss rear end, or whatever, but it should be possible.
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Nov 1, 2018 18:52
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So if you build a pirate cove is there any way for it to get destroyed?
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Nov 1, 2018 18:59
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:So if you build a pirate cove is there any way for it to get destroyed? Razing the settlement will destroy the cove.
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Nov 1, 2018 19:00
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:So if you build a pirate cove is there any way for it to get destroyed? In the initial reveal they said it would get destroyed if the settlement gets razed or if another vampire count army attacks the settlement and builds their own pirate cove.
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Nov 1, 2018 19:01
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drat that really sucks for the faction that gets poo poo on. I'd be paranoid about my coastal settlements if I wasn't going to be playing as VSea for the foreseeable future.
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Nov 1, 2018 19:17
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Continued development of the strategic layer of the game in general would be pretty high up my list of stuff I’d like to see before the trilogy is complete. Both in terms of diplomacy, but also towards just having weird poo poo all over the place. The changes to the treasures and ruins are cool, same for the treasure maps. More of that please. Also a lot more unique buildings!
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Nov 1, 2018 19:34
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Panfilo posted:If Vampire Counts didn't put pressure on Zhufbar/Peak Pass then Dwarf AI tends to steamroll all the World's Edge Mountains. Having them as a threat makes it easier to confederate those factions (as Dwarves) and as other races takes pressure off dealing with a Blue Wave. The problem with emergent AI behaviors is you need it to actually have some element of randomness. TW1 base was perfect. You had a 50% chance of the Empire becoming dominant, and a 50% chance the VC would become dominant. Same with Dwarfs and Greenskins. You genuinely never knew which way the map would go. Before the big Old World update things got funky, but after that update the map did once again play out fairly differently each time. Empire, Norsca, VC, WElves all could become dominant in the center mass. Or sometimes the Beastmen would win again and you'd end up with a dead center mass. The only part of the world that had a lack of randomness was the DvG, which went Dwarf 9 times out of 10 by the end of the games lifespan. Or Bretonnia who only really had "do we invade Norsca or just build up Bretonnia. Or die to Beastmen I guess.". TW2 ME has never really had any element of randomness. You know exactly which way the map will go every single time. At launch ME, you could roll a dice to see if you got VC blob or Dwarf blob. Whichever wins the roll takes the entirety of the east, plus all of the Badlands. At current ME, VC will take the east/Badlands regardless, and then move on to taking the rest of the Old World. Because of how Climate works, Empires that can blob quickly will win 9 times out of 10, as there is nothing holding them back from blobbing. Because territory is meaningless, he who blobs the fastest wins, especially for the AI who has so many positive bonii. And the VC and ( old ) Dwarfs could do it the most reliably, in the most resource rich sections of the map. Comparatively, I've seen very little deviation in my ME games compared to my TW1 games. I've never seen an ascendant Bretonnia, WElves, Beastmen, Chaos, or Empire in ME. I didn't see Greenskins do poo poo until their update. and now I don't see the Dwarfs do poo poo. The Old World map will always play out the same now, with VC becoming a massive powerhouse/threat. And this is a stark contrast to my TW1 games. I've long mentioned I play TW1 over ME unless I want to do something dumb/play a TW2 race, and every single time I play TW1 I get a different result. My current Greenskin game has Bretonnia ruining Norsca. My current Norsca game has Greenskins as winners of the Badlands brawl. My current WElves game has the Empire ascendant, long since having destroyed the VC and allied to Bretonnia/Kislev, even in the lower turn counts. If we talk about the New World, and the New World races, then yes. They are chock full of random behaviors, and you never quite know how things will go. I've seen everything from Malekith conquering Ulthuan, the Lizards conquering Naggaroth, the Skaven conquering Ulthuan, etc etc. But that's because they were built with those ideals in place, and their map is suited for that level of random behavior and total chance. The Old World map wasn't, and it suffers in ME because of it. That's the fundamental problem with Climate. It could be a totally cool system if they just got in there and reworked how a whole bunch of mechanics worked in the Old World, built in encouragements for various races, removed/combined a few minor powers to discourage/encourage the AI to go in certain directions, and actually put a modicum of effort into it. But that's rather doubtful, so it's more then likely we hit the end of this trilogy with half the big map just laughably broken at the best of times. Rookersh fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 19:40
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This whole mod breaking bullshit is annoying i wanna play TW2. I feel they changed the AI to get a fixed income because i'm seeing factions with 1 city pumping out 3 armies fairly reliably and its not mods cause they did so during my vanilla campaign also. It's honestly better for it because you get factions surviving extremely far into the game where normally they'd die by turn 20. I want the pirate cove for skaven but make it hero based and just add poo poo like corruption or trigger a vermintide if you don't take steps to curb it. You never fight enough skaven in campaign they're always getting stomped by other factions so the more skaven armies around the better. I'd honestly love it if the AI left more ruins and the ruins would spawn rogue armies and be occupied by skaven if you left them sitting there long enough. Maybe with the treasure maps being guarded by armies we'll see land versions where the skaven army doesn't really control the ruin they just fight you when you try to colonize it.
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Nov 1, 2018 19:50
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I haven't had the problem of ME being less predictable due to the climate system, if anything I've seen the opposite. Sometimes the border princes push into eastern badlands, other times bloody hands conquer them and start moving into The Vaults. Bad Moon/Angrund is usually a toss up as well, generally determined more by whoever pisses off wood elves. Khemri will push north and displace the Greenskins /Skaven/Dwarves, unless Arkhan does unusually well in which case he'll gobble up the minor factions and bog Khemri down. I actually find Empire usually doing poorly because they get dragged into wars and they now have Bad Moon and Beastmen to deal with. Brettonia tends to fare better and unites more consistently, because they have wood elves as a buffer and Norsca never invades them in strength to keep a foothold. Wood Elves don't expand much because they're isolationist. When they first came out they would absolutely steamroll through the old world, but now it's the opposite extreme which is too bad. Beastmen spawns rarely accomplish anything because they spawn too weak and easily get stomped the turn they arrive, or botch a siege and just wander off suffering attrition.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:09
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Panfilo posted:I haven't had the problem of ME being less predictable due to the climate system, if anything I've seen the opposite. Sometimes the border princes push into eastern badlands, other times bloody hands conquer them and start moving into The Vaults. Bad Moon/Angrund is usually a toss up as well, generally determined more by whoever pisses off wood elves. Khemri will push north and displace the Greenskins /Skaven/Dwarves, unless Arkhan does unusually well in which case he'll gobble up the minor factions and bog Khemri down. I actually find Empire usually doing poorly because they get dragged into wars and they now have Bad Moon and Beastmen to deal with. Brettonia tends to fare better and unites more consistently, because they have wood elves as a buffer and Norsca never invades them in strength to keep a foothold. TWW1 Launch Wood Elves were basically green chaos. I had an empire game by like turn 40 that was struggling to fight back stack after stack of rear end in a top hat elves that already reclaimed the entirety of Brettonia into Athel Loren and was pushing on to stick fingers in my eyes. It's probably for the best that they made Wood Elves Isolationists. It's extremely difficult to counter push into Athel Loren to actually burn their poo poo down because of the attrition coupled with the absolutely absurd garrisons welf cities get.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:23
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Rookersh posted:That's the fundamental problem with Climate. It could be a totally cool system if they just got in there and reworked how a whole bunch of mechanics worked in the Old World, built in encouragements for various races, removed/combined a few minor powers to discourage/encourage the AI to go in certain directions, and actually put a modicum of effort into it. But that's rather doubtful, so it's more then likely we hit the end of this trilogy with half the big map just laughably broken at the best of times. I've said it before in the thread, but the main problem with ME is that the Old World Map was made with the considerations of Regional Occupation in mind, so just plugging extra map areas around it inevitably lead to poor balance. I usually prefer the Vortex Map when doing TWW2 because the thing was designed for the Climate system, so it doesn't feel as contrived.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:32
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Even then, I'd just prefer if climate was a thing for the player, while the AI ONLY stuck to green provinces. Or yellow if it started with one. That way the AI plays like TWW1 while if the player want they can paint everything.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:47
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In TWW1 I was a big fan of regional settlement, and never modded it away. But in TWW2 I dislike climate and would rather everyone be able to settle everywhere at green level, but that's mostly because I see ME as a huge pile of toys slamming into each other making explosion noises. Part of it is probably that I've only ever finished a single ME campaign, and so tend to just fight my immediate neighbors for ~150 turns and then start over. Who cares if the dwarfs have taken over half the empire if you're playing in Ulthuan performing raids on Bretonnia? And if you're close enough to care about the dwarfs, you're close enough to interfere with them before they get unstoppable.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:52
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That's a thought. Another fix could be tweaking the AI's autoresolve against itself, by making it so unfavorable/uninhabitable climates suffer an auto resolve penalty vs a AI race that considers that climate favorable. So they might be able to steamroll a bit, but the original owners will be able to easily counterattack. This back - and - forth would really favor the player who could support one faction to push the other one out entirely. Other diplomatic options : -Ceding uninhabitable settlements (that you wouldn't be able to hold on to anyway) back to races that consider them inhabitable so you could get cash money or peace treaties out of the deal. -Annexing settlements, basically the same thing but in reverse to gain settlements without outright going to war with the owner, so you could obtain critical settlements your ally stole without having to wait to confederate with them. -Abandoning settlements to get big chunk of money. Bloody hands and Norsca factions could do this to convert the settlement into a horde that could migrate elsewhere. The AI would have scripted events where large numbers of these races would pack up and resettle in distant places. -Hostile climates affect AI regardless of difficulty setting, and remove difficulty bonus public order /attrition reduction to really blunt their progress.
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Nov 1, 2018 21:01
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Rookersh posted:TW2 ME has never really had any element of randomness. You know exactly which way the map will go every single time. Based on about 10 completed ME's, that's not my experience at all. Especially Dwarfs/Greenskins has been a complete coin toss which one comes out on top.
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Nov 1, 2018 21:16
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Legendary Ptarmigan posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5sN5aP8dVA I can,t wait to recruit Conor Nutt.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:29
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WHERE IS DREKLA?????? noooo
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