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Rutibex posted:I don't think the drones are having a huge effect on server performance. EVE is a 15 year old game, this means moores law has turned over 10 times since it was released. If we could manage drones back in 2003 we can manage them now Moore's Law became invalid almost a decade ago, and PCU in 2003 was far below 2008.
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Nov 1, 2018 16:10
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:Or just train DD V like a non scrub No joke it was a long train but worth it for garbage binning drake fleets
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Nov 1, 2018 16:42
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Dalael posted:To add to what I said, this is not true. the most significant one that was made was "brain in a box" that basically changed how skills were loaded when you load grid/jump into a new system. they've also done a lot of work to move everything that does not need to be on the same core as the grid processing off the grid processing core. the fundamental problem is that EVE is coded in stackless python which means the entire system runs on a single core of a single processor, and cannot be multithreaded. so you can optimize the code and pull everything that doesn't need to be on that core (local, the market, etc) onto a different core to minimize the load on that one core. but unless they completely recode the server in a language that supports multithreading, there's a real hard limit to the optimizations they can do. because single-core speeds hit a wall like a decade ago and have increased only marginally singe then, better processors are not really a solution.
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Nov 1, 2018 16:44
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Ynglaur posted:Moore's Law became invalid almost a decade ago, and PCU in 2003 was far below 2008. more to the point, moore's law ceased significantly increasing the number of instructions per second you can execute a long time ago, even though there's been several die shrinks since then
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Nov 1, 2018 16:45
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evilweasel posted:this is not true. the most significant one that was made was "brain in a box" that basically changed how skills were loaded when you load grid/jump into a new system. they've also done a lot of work to move everything that does not need to be on the same core as the grid processing off the grid processing core. I know the meme is lol legacy code and I'm not a computer smarty mans but at this point, how hard would it be to just rewrite the code or redo it?
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Nov 1, 2018 17:08
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Kimsemus posted:I know the meme is lol legacy code and I'm not a computer smarty mans but at this point, how hard would it be to just rewrite the code or redo it? It would be a substantial investment that would only pay off in the long term, made by a company that has shown very little interest in making investments for the long term in EVE as opposed to keeping it in maintenance mode and siphoning off the cash for other purposes. The new owners may change it up, or they may want that cash to go to repaying their purchase price.
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Nov 1, 2018 17:12
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evilweasel posted:It would be a substantial investment that would only pay off in the long term, made by a company that has shown very little interest in making investments for the long term in EVE as opposed to keeping it in maintenance mode and siphoning off the cash for other purposes. The new owners may change it up, or they may want that cash to go to repaying their purchase price. Practically speaking, how hard is it to do something like that? It seems like other companies that publish MMOs are using new methods or trying to improve their code all the time.
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Nov 1, 2018 17:18
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Kimsemus posted:Practically speaking, how hard is it to do something like that? It seems like other companies that publish MMOs are using new methods or trying to improve their code all the time. You can't just "improve" it - the language doesn't even support multi-threading. You need to code an entirely new back-end engine with a different programming language, and design it in such a way that you can multi-thread it easily. And it needs to play nice with all of the other legacy code you're not looking to change that day. And because you're trying to do something on a completely different scale than most MMOs I don't know that there's anything off-the-shelf you can get as an engine to modify, rather than code an engine from scratch. It's not really a matter of tweaking. It's basically coding Eve 2.0 from scratch.
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Nov 1, 2018 17:23
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evilweasel posted:It's basically coding Eve 2.0 from scratch which is what ccp should have been working on since 2010 instead of losing tens of millions in VR and whatever else flavor of the month trash game they're trying to put out under the auspices of  eve universe
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Nov 1, 2018 17:27
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evilweasel posted:And because you're trying to do something on a completely different scale than most MMOs I don't know that there's anything off-the-shelf you can get as an engine to modify, rather than code an engine from scratch. It's not really a matter of tweaking. It's basically coding Eve 2.0 from scratch. I mean, there's precedent - they ported the game from C++ to Python. My guess is that the actual good developers all got scooped up by companies that a) actually pay and b) aren't based on fartwater island, and the remainder are just sorta piling python scripts on top of a black box of server code that everyone is too scared to poke at the internals of.
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Nov 1, 2018 17:30
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ChickenWing posted:I mean, there's precedent - they ported the game from C++ to Python. My guess is that the actual good developers all got scooped up by companies that a) actually pay and b) aren't based on fartwater island, and the remainder are just sorta piling python scripts on top of a black box of server code that everyone is too scared to poke at the internals of. they could do it, it'd just be expensive and they won't even pay for "pretty cheap"
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Nov 1, 2018 17:31
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evilweasel posted:they could do it, it'd just be expensive and they won't even pay for "pretty cheap" Dream universe: Pearl Abyss continues bludgeoning their non-eve playerbase while money continues to fall out and uses said money to make eve better
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Nov 1, 2018 17:52
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evilweasel posted:It would be a substantial investment that would only pay off in the long term, made by a company that has shown very little interest in making investments for the long term in EVE as opposed to keeping it in maintenance mode and siphoning off the cash for other purposes. The new owners may change it up, or they may want that cash to go to repaying their purchase price. It's pretty funny. One of the longest running MMOs suffers from a company that pathologically treats it like it's going to die next year.
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Nov 1, 2018 18:01
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ChickenWing posted:I mean, there's precedent - they ported the game from C++ to Python. My guess is that the actual good developers all got scooped up by companies that a) actually pay and b) aren't based on fartwater island, and the remainder are just sorta piling python scripts on top of a black box of server code that everyone is too scared to poke at the internals of. They didn’t port the game completely, they just started writing new stuff and converting some old stuff to C++. A good portion of the game is still Python.
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Nov 1, 2018 18:05
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They just need to have a ragnarok patch where new eden has been run over, empire space has collapsed. You must now evac everything you hold dear to the MEGA GATE that will lead us to the new promised land that is eve 2.0. Call it a battle royal patch, bring in new players. Watch everyone lose everything.
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Nov 1, 2018 18:09
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ffxiv did it but i think they're one of the only games that have survived such a massive rewrite
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Nov 1, 2018 18:12
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are they really making a mobile game
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Nov 1, 2018 18:47
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I would jump at the chance to play EVE 2.0 if everything was reset and they deleted supercaps
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Nov 1, 2018 18:48
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Hexel posted:are they really making a mobile game They're making an EVE mobile game that will be very similar to the EVE you're used to, but they won't be linked because 
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Nov 1, 2018 18:49
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Hexel posted:are they really making a mobile game Two of them.
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Nov 1, 2018 19:06
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Two of them.  is one a fortnite clone?
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Nov 1, 2018 19:13
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MaxPowers posted:They just need to have a ragnarok patch where new eden has been run over, empire space has collapsed. You must now evac everything you hold dear to the MEGA GATE that will lead us to the new promised land that is eve 2.0. If they had to rewrite the engine and game to be drastically different I would be cool with this, so long as I get to keep my money and xp in the new game. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 19:17
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Hexel posted:
Nah one is Clash of Clans or whatever and the other is ??? but supposed to be basically Eve but not connected to the universe
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Nov 1, 2018 19:34
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Landsknecht posted:the real endgame is the ratting bosontitan Not to mention you can multibox ratting Titans pretty easily and pull in 800mil per hour just on those. And if you also ask some vnis or myrmidons you can get another few hundred mil an hour easy. Plus there's so much excess stront in delve you can pick it up for pennies on the dollar if you find an ice miner.
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Nov 1, 2018 19:47
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Dalael posted:I would jump at the chance to play EVE 2.0 if everything was reset and they deleted supercaps
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Nov 1, 2018 19:48
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ilkhan posted:Starting a clean server would be an interesting dice roll... too many idiots have bought far too much IRL money in plex to convert to ISK and they would yell and shout and holler Now if CCP converted the value of all of your assets to plex then let you do whatever you wanted with it on Eve 2.0 + let you keep your current skills or gave you PLEX to inject your skillpoints back it wouldnt be so loud and screechy
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Nov 1, 2018 20:00
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:too many idiots have bought far too much IRL money in plex to convert to ISK and they would yell and shout and holler Then it would essentially be a clone of TQ.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:08
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Kimsemus posted:Then it would essentially be a clone of TQ. No, because people would only have raw money and nothing to spend it on. All of the minerals and modules and ships in EVE come from player activity, you can't buy anything except blueprints from NPCs. It doesn't matter if you have 1 trillion isk if no one has mined enough minerals to build anything yet. Newbies would have a chance to make huge gains, as prices would be massively inflated in the beginning.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:19
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We had this discussion on the TEST forums a while back regarding the limitations of large battle optimization as a result of how EVE is coded. Smarter people than myself when it comes to development informed me that even if the project were to be taken on, it's not just a simple process of selecting a language that supports multi-threading and re-writing the code. Coding for multi-threading is not easy and doesn't guarantee that a.) it is possible given what you are trying to do and b.) that you will even realize performance gains as a result of it. I still think it is a shame that the option isn't being explored by CCP and that they probably don't have the brainpower required to make it work. But it is worth noting that it is no simple task.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:19
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kung fu jive posted:We had this discussion on the TEST forums a while back regarding the limitations of large battle optimization as a result of how EVE is coded. Smarter people than myself when it comes to development informed me that even if the project were to be taken on, it's not just a simple process of selecting a language that supports multi-threading and re-writing the code. Coding for multi-threading is not easy and doesn't guarantee that a.) it is possible given what you are trying to do and b.) that you will even realize performance gains as a result of it. Sounds like the folks you talked to were well-informed. Concurrency is hard.
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Nov 1, 2018 20:54
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Think of rewriting in a new language as translating English to Russian . Adding concurrency is then writing an opera with an 80-person chorus and 6 lead roles. With an orchestra.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:16
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I'm not aware of any game that mutlithreads it's core simulation. Managing multiple threads in real time and having sub second consistency is difficult. Like Big 5 tech R&D project difficult. Most multithreading in games is what CCP is doing now, off loading things that don't need immediate concurrency to a different thread or process.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:23
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IMO you could multithread EVE easily by using Blockchain technology.
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Nov 1, 2018 22:28
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Boatswain posted:IMO you could multithread EVE easily by using Blockchain technology. 
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Nov 1, 2018 22:37
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FAT32 SHAMER posted:too many idiots have bought far too much IRL money in plex to convert to ISK and they would yell and shout and holler
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Nov 1, 2018 22:45
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What if they made EVE turn based?
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Nov 1, 2018 22:54
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Boatswain posted:IMO you could multithread EVE easily by using Buttchain technology. 
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Nov 1, 2018 23:10
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Boatswain posted:IMO you could multithread EVE easily by using Blockchain technology. For the least techno-savvy of us, is this just a buttcoin joke or is there actually a way to apply the tech to EVE? Im guessing its a joke but just in case..
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Nov 1, 2018 23:11
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Rutibex posted:What if they made EVE turn based? All computer games are.
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Nov 1, 2018 23:17
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Boatswain posted:IMO you could multithread EVE easily by using Blockchain technology. 
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Nov 1, 2018 23:18
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