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The interesting thing about the Delta Rune legend is that the prophecy of the Prince of the Dark would equivalently apply to Lancer...
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Nov 2, 2018 13:56
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The Bee posted:poo poo. What if Asriel is Undertale, and Kris is the shy, reserved, weird side project everyone keeps comparing to Undertale? And Ralsei and his Dark World represent what Toby fears the fans want the game to be, literally just Undertale with the names ordered around. Possibly accidental, probably likely. That sort of fear pervades your entire being. It’s not a bad way to look at it.
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Nov 2, 2018 13:57
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I find that kind of creator psychoanalysis to be rather unpleasant.
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Nov 2, 2018 14:01
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I mean, the first few screens in the darkworld are screen for screen remakes of the first area in undertale so that reading isn't too out there.
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Nov 2, 2018 14:03
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Fangz posted:I find that kind of creator psychoanalysis to be rather unpleasant. Plus, we know Toby has had at least some of this in mind since before Undertale was even released. (Even if you think he faked the dates on those files, there's still stuff like the reference to Suzy back in Undertale).
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Nov 2, 2018 14:06
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There is no implication in the game that the dark world is bad. Edit: Anyway I find this kind of thing unpleasant because it's much like the baseless gaster stuff but more harmful because it's personally intrusive about a real person. Let's not. Fangz fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 14:08
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Undertale fans, off-putting? Preposterous!
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Nov 2, 2018 14:16
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Fangz posted:There is no implication in the game that the dark world is bad. Fine, let’s just say Deltarune is Deltarune and leave it at that. We know that is true at least. Speculation is pointless until(?) the full game comes out.
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Nov 2, 2018 14:16
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It doesn't have to specifically be about his personal feelings; exploring the idea of a sequel or follow-up to something that was a firestorm of popularity is something that tons of artists go through and exploring those ideas and feelings can be interesting.
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Nov 2, 2018 14:17
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milk moosie posted:Fine, let’s just say Deltarune is Deltarune and leave it at that. We know that is true at least. Speculation is pointless until(?) the full game comes out. I think baseless speculation and fancrufting is fine if it doesn't hurt anyone and everyone is having a good time. I think just think that "X is a metaphor for the creator's self hatred and lack of confidence" is a pretty ouch subgenre of it. *Sidles back to pondering fanart ideas*
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Nov 2, 2018 14:18
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That's fair. Honestly, if he didn't put his anxieties out there in his interview I wouldn't have even considered that they'd play a role in the game. And I don't think the dark world and Ralsei are bad, either. The Dark World is a great evolution of how Undertale functioned and Ralsei is precious as heck. But I think they absolutely were meant to invoke Undertale in a way that the town postgame (and also King Spade) then go out of their way to subvert. And I find that expectation for what a sequel would be, played against the actual tone of the sequel, to be one of the most fascinating parts of Deltarune. That said, I don't think its a sign of hatred, or Toby saying "Undertale is bad and so am I" or "this isn't Undertale and will suck." Much like Kris, Deltarune is fundamentally different to what came before it, both in what it evokes and what it doesn't, and I'm excited as heck to see how it develops.
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Nov 2, 2018 14:27
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milk moosie posted:Possibly accidental, There is no such thing. Not here.
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Nov 2, 2018 14:28
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Fangz posted:*Sidles back to pondering fanart ideas* I would request some Papyrus x Polpo (JJBA) art. *performs action in third person*
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Nov 2, 2018 14:41
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The Bee posted:That's fair. Honestly, if he didn't put his anxieties out there in his interview I wouldn't have even considered that they'd play a role in the game. And I don't think the dark world and Ralsei are bad, either. The Dark World is a great evolution of how Undertale functioned and Ralsei is precious as heck. But I think they absolutely were meant to invoke Undertale in a way that the town postgame (and also King Spade) then go out of their way to subvert. And I find that expectation for what a sequel would be, played against the actual tone of the sequel, to be one of the most fascinating parts of Deltarune. The Bee says it a lot better than I can.
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Nov 2, 2018 14:54
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my fanart:
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Nov 2, 2018 15:13
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If I'm interpreting the blog post correctly it seems that the full release may be multi-platform, which would be nice. Also if Chapter 1 (which for most people I've seen typically takes a little over 2 hours to complete) is just this game's equivalent of the Ruins from Undertale then imagine how much longer the complete version will be. If we're lucky, we might see this by 2020 at the very least but I'm guessing it's probably going to take a little while.
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Nov 2, 2018 15:14
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Shamelessly copypasting my thoughts from elsewhere. While discussion is getting hooked up on the returning characters in Deltarune, the relation to Undertale and various theories I find the truly interesting aspects of the setting presented to me are the mundane, relatable, thematically strong character elements. On surface level thinking about Kris you’d talk about their family relations with characters you know from another game when to me the interesting aspects are not, say, that their parents are Toriel and Asgore but rather how they have a smothering mother who teaches at the school they go to, a relatable real life source of stress growing up for those who have experienced it, and who also shuns Kris’ estranged father who’s fallen on hard times but loves Kris. All combined with the favorite child older brother whom Kris is implied to have had a close relationship with but who managed to escape from the dysfunctional real world small town familial situation while Kris is left with fantastic escapism under unresolved trauma from their parents’ divorce. In short, Deltarune presents us with really gripping down to earth characterization and interpersonal relationship wrapped in the guise of familiarity and I find that its strongest aspect so far. It scratches a very similar itch as Night in the Woods for me so far
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Nov 2, 2018 15:41
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The worst thing Toby Fox could do is give Lancer a walk cycle in the finished game.
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Nov 2, 2018 15:50
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Nina posted:Shamelessly copypasting my thoughts from elsewhere. Yeah, I like interpersonal stuff like that (which is part of the reason why Night in the Woods and the Life is Strange series are among my favorite games), I hope we get to see more of that in the full game. For example, given the way she acts and the fact she kind of seems surprised that anyone would want to be her friend I wouldn't be surprised if Susie's home life wasn't the best either.
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Nov 2, 2018 15:54
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milk moosie posted:I don’t think any assumptions made in Undertale will apply to Deltarune. I’d consider them different games using the same set of dolls and action figures. At the same time, I think it's clear from the first chapter that the game has been made building off of your assumptions and expectations from Undertale, to the point that I'm not sure how well the game would work for someone who'd never played it. I don't think it's wrong to have those assumptions and expectations, just that they'll be challenged (plus all that stuff The Bee said). Also I want to say if the full version of Deltarune never gets finished, this free demo snippet has been enough of a satisfying and self-contained experience to be a success in my books. Avoiding the pressures of Patreon, Kickstarter, and preorders in general is a smart play if your main concerns are creative stress and burnout, as is going to a publisher over building your own team - the Homestuck game Kickstarter and subsequent development was basically a roadmap of what not to do in this kind of situation. Basically if the full version comes out in a few years I'll think of it as Deltarune 2 and a pleasant bonus.
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Nov 2, 2018 15:58
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Xinder posted:The worst thing Toby Fox could do is give Lancer a walk cycle in the finished game. What if he put legs on his bike.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:01
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Gruckles posted:What if he put legs on his bike. I... Acceptable.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:03
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I like the little honk/toot Lancer's bike horn does in the boss fight
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Nov 2, 2018 16:04
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Xinder posted:I... Or just rolls like the world's laziest cartwheel.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:19
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The game is obviously built as a hook for further story development; I'm interested enough in seeing where it goes. And, yes, of course it has tons of metaplot threads it's dangling out as well, but it's hard to figure out which, if any of them, are going to be relevant to the other stories half-developed as c-level plots in Undertale at this point in time. While I have a lot of stupid little irrelevant observations, one small detail I was amused by that I haven't seen much mention of is Susie's disturbing dietary habits. Really, chalk? Wouldn't that be the equivalent of some human kid randomly chewing on bones all the time? Granted, I think she's also the biggest fan of the blood jelly donut. Xinder posted:The worst thing Toby Fox could do is give Lancer a walk cycle in the finished game. Am I misremembering, or doesn't he actually have a walk cycle, which he briefly employs once or twice, he just...chooses not to most of the time? Which seems kind of great.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:32
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Dolash posted:Also I want to say if the full version of Deltarune never gets finished, this free demo snippet has been enough of a satisfying and self-contained experience to be a success in my books. Avoiding the pressures of Patreon, Kickstarter, and preorders in general is a smart play if your main concerns are creative stress and burnout, as is going to a publisher over building your own team - the Homestuck game Kickstarter and subsequent development was basically a roadmap of what not to do in this kind of situation. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing as this, and I really hope Toby Fox is able to avoid creative stress and burnout. I in particular was also thinking of the Homestuck game Kickstarter. With all that said, I have to admit that for me the wait would be a lot easier if there were occasional Twitter updates stating whether or not the game is moving along. Not that I think any of us are entitled to that, of course. But that's just me admittedly being a little bit selfish and wishful.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:32
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Shady Amish Terror posted:The game is obviously built as a hook for further story development; I'm interested enough in seeing where it goes. And, yes, of course it has tons of metaplot threads it's dangling out as well, but it's hard to figure out which, if any of them, are going to be relevant to the other stories half-developed as c-level plots in Undertale at this point in time. Eating chalk is an actual thing weird kids do
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Nov 2, 2018 16:36
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It is sort of interesting and weird to live in an age where you can be aware that an independent game developer is working on a title you're excited for, and you can periodically check in on their social media presence to see that, yup, five or ten years later they are still working on that game.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:37
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Nina posted:Eating chalk is an actual thing weird kids do Chalk has antacid properties.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:39
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Nina posted:Eating chalk is an actual thing weird kids do Pfft. Not me. Okay, I wasn't really aware of that, but I certainly understood what was up with the scented markers.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:39
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you better BELIEVE i sniffed those marshmellow markers.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:42
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If Undertale rules still apply monsters can eat whatever. See e.g. the glamburgers made of sequins.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:51
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Worklurker posted:Chalk has antacid properties. Most chalk is made of calcium carbonate, which is one of the active ingredients in a heartburn medication I use. Which also explains why it tastes like I imagine chalk would.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:53
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I want Jevil's battle music to be performed by a fully orchestrated ska band. Also you can't tell me that Ralsei would not be voiced by Griffin McElroy. I can only read his likes as Angus McDonald from The Adventure Zone. 
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Nov 2, 2018 17:01
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Fangz posted:If Undertale rules still apply monsters can eat whatever. See e.g. the glamburgers made of sequins. I'm not sure if Undertale rules still apply, actually. Notably, no monster uses magic except for Susie in the make-believe world, there are actual graves for the monsters, Susie physically threatens a human, etc. Ultimately I don't think it matters that much to the story, unless explicitly brought up. Re: themes and "how old is this story", while i don't doubt that some core concepts have existed since 2013 or before Undertale's release or w/e, there are certain aspects of Delta Rune that are clearly written to play off of familiarity with Undertale, as other people have said. It's most definitely a continuation. And I don't think it's a huge surprise that one of Kris's main struggles is dealing with expectations that are impossible to live up to. Overall I think the original game was very good at capturing the zeitgeist of Young Hip Internet People, and in Deltarune the story seems to have matured along with the times. I'd argue that Undertale would be a really good game to look at from the perspective of a historian, in order to get a feel on mid 2010s internet culture and anxieties/reactions to current events. It really is funny how many little things Delta Rune has in common with fellow Picture Of Contemporary American Youth game Night In The Woods.
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Nov 2, 2018 17:11
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Personally I assume that the reason Susie threatens to bite Kris' face off is because Kris is the only human, so nobody knows the thing about human children being more powerful than even the strongest monster and all that. edit: Also, she was probably bluffing and trying to look tough. She does push Kris up against a locker and stuff but from your fellow classmates' dialogue it's pretty clear that she has likely never actually beaten anyone up CJacobs fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 17:12
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Toby posted a bunch of thank yous to people who helped make Deltarune a reality and it included this interesting tidbit https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1058382742260498433
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Nov 2, 2018 17:16
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milk moosie posted:“Undertale but trump is president” might not be a joke, I’m saying. Jesus loving Christ, the game was in development back in 2012. It's not some bullshit reactionary piece to Undertales's popularity or the state of the world, it's a pre-planned story with it's own independent themes and messages. It's not a loving Undertale deconstruction. Also, newsflash, Undertale doesn't loving NEED to be deconstructed because Undertale is already a GOD drat deconstruction! If you want to play a game that reconstructs the themes of Undertale have you considered playing ANY OTHER RPG (except Nier)?! The whole deconstruction Undertale was trying to accomplish was "Boy, when you play a game you sure do commit a lot of acts of violence we take for granted. What if there were a game that took these acts of violence seriously, and in turn reflected how in real life we ourselves are capable of lots of causally cruelty when we stop thinking of the people around us as independent beings with their own thoughts and feelings and lives outside of us?" If you want a game that ignores all that and has your violence either be completely ignored or totally justified there are a million other (non-Nier) choices! These are things that already exist! And most of them are GREAT! You can play them RIGHT NOW! Also, why are so many idiots constantly making GBS threads out the "Undertale say violence be bad, but sometimes violence be NEEDED!!11!  " hot take as if it's something that's not ALREADY acknowledged and addressed within the game itself? You have to outright use violence against both Asgore and Flowey. Yes, you're eventually able to talk down each of them peacefully, but in order to get to that point of peace you need to PHYSICALLY FIGHT THEM! Undertale is directly stating that "yeah, sometimes you need to fight" it just also adds "but it's still a probably good idea to save violence as a last resort". This is something that happens in every route of the game, it seems impossible to be so dull that you could possibly miss this and yet somehow people do. .... Sorry to go off on you like this, but, Lord, this was a really lovely hot take you just made.
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Nov 2, 2018 17:19
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the susie existing years ago stuff makes more sense in that context. It better reflects what I understand of the creative process than "mastermind toby's ten year plan".
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Nov 2, 2018 17:19
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Jesus loving Christ, the game was in development back in 2012. It's not some bullshit reactionary piece to Undertales's popularity or the state of the world, it's a pre-planned story with it's own independent themes and messages. It's not a loving Undertale deconstruction. Not to nitpick, but Undertale only really needs you to do that so Flowey tells you how to befriend Alphys. Other than that (which you can ressonably say Frisk could think of themselves), those neutral ending fights aren't even present on the true ending path. Heck, fighting Asriel literally does nothing. In addition, "fighting as a last resort but holding back" is exactly how most players get gotcha'd into killing Toriel, and unless you run instead of fight Undyne cannot be spared. Deltarune puts a lot more focus on how you can't always control others' violence that perfectly, with Susie's autonomous actions and King's refusal to be befriended like everyone in Undertale eventually allows. At the same time, the fact that every fight isn't life or death also helps legitimize fighting as more of an option, unlike Undertale's genocide route that basically turns into a slaughter. I do agree UnderTrump is a bit of a reach takewise, but I think its equally too hot a take to say Deltarune has absolutely nothing to say about its predecessor just because it uses some ideas from 2012.
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Nov 2, 2018 17:45
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