|
Clarste posted:I think the right way to play Undertale is to get the neutral ending first, feel kinda bad, and then go back for the pacifist ending. Fight me. The best way to play the first time is absolutely to just play how you naturally would with no backseating. That way you're likely to see more stuff like accidentally killing Toriel, reloading, and having Flowey taunt you about knowing you did that. And then on a second play through of doing pacifist you get to see stuff like Sans calling out that you already seem to know what will happen.
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:48 |
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:Toby's official word is that the two are utterly unrelated, and yet... Deltarune checks your Undertale install directory to see if you have a genocide flag on your save file for that game, for what reason we don't know yet Your Computer posted:for one, despite toby fox going out of his way to confirm that Undertale and Deltarune are not related, people fall over themselves trying to connect the two saying he was actually just lying (Mind, I do not expect Toby to simply pull out the rug and say this world is some kind of elaborate fabrication by an antagonist who based everything on Undertale's world and characters. I think he wants to tell this story about Kris and Kris's hometown and the Dark World.)
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:12
|
|
|
It's not a flaw though. Playing through the neutral run, being shamed for it and then doing a pacifist run while noticing the differences in a second run is the ideal experience.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:13
|
|
|
A little while ago I translated a joint interview with both Toby and ZUN (the Touhou guy) and I got a surprising number of responses that were just variants of "Undertale is trash (but Toby seems okay since he likes Touhou)" which was a little weird. I think the Undertale anti-fandom is more defensive than the fandom.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:14
|
|
|
Toby seems okay since he is a really undeniably good composer
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:14
|
|
|
I killed Toriel the first time around (and I'm pretty sure that's basically intended, Undyne is another stumbling block of sorts) and assumed it was how it was supposed to go, so I had to replay thru the game. Since I played the original Nier, that was fine with me, I'unno if someone less familiar with that sort of True Ending would bother though, at least without a stronger hint.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:15
|
|
|
There's definitely an obnoxious group of people who insist on posting in the comments of every Undertale related article the very important and interesting fact that they don't care about Undertale.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:16
|
|
|
Zas posted:Toby seems okay since he is a really undeniably good composer my first experience with him was a blogpost where he banged on and on about the potential depth and variety of NES chiptunes and i was all "i don't entirely understand the life you live but you go right on living it, little weirdo"
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:17
|
|
|
Clarste posted:A little while ago I translated a joint interview with both Toby and ZUN (the Touhou guy) and I got a surprising number of responses that were just variants of "Undertale is trash (but Toby seems okay since he likes Touhou)" which was a little weird. I think the Undertale anti-fandom is more defensive than the fandom. See my previous post. There's a reason why the 2hu fandom gave you such a response. It really doesn't have much to do with the other fanbase.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:17
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:It's not a flaw though. Playing through the neutral run, being shamed for it and then doing a pacifist run while noticing the differences in a second run is the ideal experience. The way you phrased this post proves my point though. Is it really fair to "be shamed for" getting locked out of content you were given no indication existed? You're not just getting called out on killing a character because it has a real effect on you totally divorced from the game. This is the problem that games with a focus on giving the player branching choices all face- the player will be locked out of something because of their actions one way or another, but you have to let them know that before they make any choices that affect things that way. Undertale doesn't. Delta Rune does.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:17
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:The person behind the actual Storyshift took the concept "the characters are all just actors like in the Mario games" and actually did something with it that played to the tone and theme of the game. Everyone else just did weird copycat poo poo until they threw their hands up and gave up on it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:17
|
|
|
You're not locked out of anything though, that's why the game emphasises reloading as an actual canon fact. You can change your fate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:18
|
|
|
If you're actually going to argue that having to play the whole game from the beginning because your actions along the way are now keeping you from moving onward, doesn't count as being locked out, then I don't even wanna continue lol
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:20
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:It's not a flaw though. Playing through the neutral run, being shamed for it and then doing a pacifist run while noticing the differences in a second run is the ideal experience. The ideal experience is being such a morally pure creature to go full pacifist on your very first playthrough. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:21
|
|
|
Clarste posted:I think the right way to play Undertale is to get the neutral ending first, feel kinda bad, and then go back for the pacifist ending. Fight me. This is exactly how I played it and I have no regrets.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:21
|
|
|
Tunicate posted:Scarodactyl's easter eggs like the Grillby Genocide Fight are pretty great though. Assuming it's the same dude, he's incredibly talented and doing some real funny fan art stuff for the Pokemon Reborn LP right now that's really taking the edge off what a cartwheeling trainwreck that game is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:27
|
|
|
Your Computer posted:for one, despite toby fox going out of his way to confirm that Undertale and Deltarune are not related, people fall over themselves trying to connect the two saying he was actually just lying Source: My biography, titled "Hay Gimpy Bro", which is not my biography, and which is about the life of a person who looks and acts like me and has my name, but is not me, actually
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:38
|
|
|
Clarste posted:I think the right way to play Undertale is to get the neutral ending first, feel kinda bad, and then go back for the pacifist ending. Fight me. On the other hand, I played the entire game 100% pacifist and was extremely happy with that. I knew from the get-go that I wasn't going to touch that FIGHT option (hearing the "the RPG where no one has to die" tagline and then getting it confirmed with the goatmom fight) and it made me super happy when I could go through the game without it. So for me the Asgore fight was actually the most frustrating part of the game, being the only place where this wasn't actually true  I spent so much time there you wouldn't believe.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:55
|
|
|
CJacobs posted:If you're actually going to argue that having to play the whole game from the beginning because your actions along the way are now keeping you from moving onward, doesn't count as being locked out, then I don't even wanna continue lol You're acting like that's a big ask but you can blaze through the game quickly once you've seen it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:57
|
|
|
I'm so glad I got to play Undertale on release day, long before the fandom started.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:57
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:my first experience with him was a blogpost where he banged on and on about the potential depth and variety of NES chiptunes and i was all "i don't entirely understand the life you live but you go right on living it, little weirdo" Mine was hearing this post
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:58
|
|
|
Your Computer posted:On the other hand, I played the entire game 100% pacifist and was extremely happy with that. I knew from the get-go that I wasn't going to touch that FIGHT option (hearing the "the RPG where no one has to die" tagline and then getting it confirmed with the goatmom fight) and it made me super happy when I could go through the game without it. I think goatmom was intentionally meant to throw the player off because until that fight there is no indication that repeatedly using Mercy would have any effect. So the natural progression of the demo where she was the final boss was to kill her by accident (since if you try to weaken her, another natural thing to attempt, you will automatically crit and kill her), and then reload to see if you could spare her. And then when you reload Flowey scolds you for it, saying something like "I know what you did" which basically set the tone of the entire game. I do wonder if people who played the demo had a different experience with the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 00:59
|
|
|
Clarste posted:I think goatmom was intentionally meant to throw the player off because until that fight there is no indication that repeatedly using Mercy would have any effect. So the natural progression of the demo where she was the final boss was to kill her by accident (since if you try to weaken her, another natural thing to attempt, you will automatically crit and kill her), and then reload to see if you could spare her. And then when you reload Flowey scolds you for it, which basically set the tone of the entire game. Except that is totally false! Her dialogue DOES change and I noticed that which made me determined to keep sparing and it worked. It really sold the game for me and the theme of determination. e: oh, you say BEFORE that. Well, like I said. Her dialogue changes! You get a hint that your determination will pay off, and it does!
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:02
|
|
|
Your Computer posted:Except that is totally false! Her dialogue DOES change and I noticed that which made me determined to keep sparing and it worked. It really sold the game for me and the theme of determination. Eventually it reaches a point where the only difference is the number of dots in her ....... which I for one didn't notice.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:03
|
|
|
Clarste posted:Eventually it reaches a point where the only difference is the number of dots in her ....... Exactly. It keeps changing. Clarste posted:which I for one didn't notice. yeah, a lot of people didn't notice it. That's what I mean by it being a great design, because I was so determined to not fight her that I paid attention to stuff like "did her text change" and even by changing it so little as adding a single '.' tobyfox validated that. It was worth looking at, and eventually after many turns.. the fight ends. Without fighting. It was amazing and unlike anything I had seen in any other game, like I said, it totally sold me on Undertale
Your Computer fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Nov 3, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:04
|
|
|
Seeing the Undertale fandom do its thing always makes my head spin but all I need to do to ground is to actually play the games to remember ”Ah it’s good”
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:08
|
|
|
re: anti-fanbase, there's also a lot of people that just hate popular indie games for reasons I have yet to ascertain it really doesn't matter which one--shovel knight, shantae, undertale, five nights, It Is Bad On Principle that's not to say there's not absolutely valid complaints to be had with any of those individual titles, but there's a weird tendency to lump them all in like they're one thing and not really have a valid reason why (or even an experience with any of those in particular), they just stink of the Indie Developers I kind of get it, because I personally get rattled by streamer culture, the flood of half-assed steam horror games, and the toxic behavior perpetuated by youtube personalities developing cult followings that then can't detach the idea of the game from the wiki-cultivated hivemind that follows BUT, that shouldn't affect any single game. poo poo should be judged on its own merits; if it's bad, it's bad because it's bad. If it's good, it's good because it's good. It's not inherently bad because The Pewds LPed or because it was two bucks on steam, and it's not inherently good because oh my god guys youtuber what'shisname did a bunch of videos exploring the implications of faaaart the attitude also leads to a lot of weird behavior, where I've seen people justify technically independently developed games as not being indie because the person liked them, and games from major companies with proven track records of brand name console releases as being indie because the person didn't like the game, the whole thing is a buzz word to the extent that I don't personally even know what an indie game is anymore Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Nov 3, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:10
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:You're acting like that's a big ask but you can blaze through the game quickly once you've seen it. Yeah, especially since some scenes are faster or outright skippable the second time through.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:22
|
|
|
On a different note: The music is really good. One of the things I didn't like about Undertale was how the best ending was for sparing everyone and the worst was for killing everyone. I understand why it was important on a meta level and I don't hold it against the game, but I hope that isn't the case in this game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:22
|
|
|
Cuntellectual posted:On a different note: The music is really good. Only one ending and your choices don't matter.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:23
|
|
|
I have no idea if the story will be any good but the fact that, after you get full control of suzy, you can go back to the start and make her be nice to enemies and she'll complain about coming all the way back just to see her do that is a good sign it will be a good game, if not story.  e: Okay maybe I'm going  here but after reading Toby Fox's twitlonger post, am I the only one who can't help but notice "UNALTERED" and "UNRELATED" are also anagrams of Undertale? Clearly the DDLCxUndertale fiction we've always needed. Clarste posted:Only one ending and your choices don't matter. If that was the case that would be appropriate. Cuntellectual fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Nov 3, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:26
|
|
|
I mean right at the very beginning we agreed to accept everything that would happen and then were told we can't choose who we are in this world. I think the game's been pretty upfront with the nature of choice in its narrative!
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:55
|
|
|
Lunatic Sledge posted:re: anti-fanbase, there's also a lot of people that just hate popular indie games for reasons I have yet to ascertain It's not just an indie thing. Literally anything that is popular will have people hating it just because it's popular. Some of it is just basic "I am so sick of hearing about this thing" where they didn't really care either way in the first place and overexposure just made them resent it. Other times it's the hipster thing where they define their entire sense of taste around "oh, you wouldn't have heard of it" and will actually turn on something they originally liked because other people are getting into it now. Sometimes it's just a stupid thing where they don't understand that not everything is intended for them specifically, so something being popular that they legitimately don't like means the fans are WRONG, rather than just, it not being their thing. With a thing like Undertale it's kind of inseparable from the fan culture surrounding it, so it's very hard for people getting into it now to have the same experience as when it first came out and nobody really knew what it was. "I don't see what the big deal is" is a perfectly reasonable reaction because part of what made it special was how much of a surprise it was.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 01:57
|
|
|
I skipped a lot of posts (though i also read hundreds) so pardon if this was already discussed, but one thing that's cool to me about Deltarune vs Undertale is that fighting - as in engaging in the practice of reducing the enemy's health to 0 - is actually a somewhat interesting and satisfying thing now. In Undertale the whole appeal of actually using the FIGHT command was to get past something faster or specifically to trigger genocide, beyond that it was completely uninteresting and dull. Sure there was a minor timing mini game involved which was nice but it wasn't really enough to make it enticing in the way combat can be in other RPGs, it doesn't tickle the same pleasure centers. But in Deltarune you have options. Not a lot yet (presumably these will grow as characters advance like in most RPGs), but it's already way more than you had in Undertale. Now instead of just FIGHT and ITEM you have spells, guarding, stocking and spending TP, considering timing among your party members, etc. One of your characters only has abilities for dealing damage. And the actual visuals of fighting are a lot more satisfying. It looks badass when Kris points forward, sword lowered, and Suzie does some big ax swing - especially when compared to Undertale not really having any graphical representation of fighting at all. I don't know how intentional this all is versus just being the natural result of taking the "next step" in RPG design with graphics and abilities, but in Deltarune I actually had to convince myself to not fight specifically because it felt pretty good to fight now. Not just as a shortcut or a catalyst for a separate storyline but because I want to see the cool heroes use cool attacks to beat up the bad guys.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 02:17
|
|
|
Your Computer posted:Exactly. It keeps changing. I had the same experience with the Toriel fight, but I'll admit I missed the trick to both Undyne and Asgore and spent I'm pretty sure an hour on each trying to figure out how to proceed (in both cases I thought they were endurance tests) before just googling it. So, mileage will vary I guess. Part of Deltarune seems to be that it knows you're already familiar with all the tricks from Undertale, so it seems to pick up where the last game left off, and the new battle system does a lot to expand the field of possibilities. The way Susie was handled was extremely well-paced for the length of the Dark Realm adventure, each stretch of before she joined the party, after she joined, and after she decided to try to stop being violent changes up the gameplay and sticks around just long enough. Edit: Countblanc posted:fighting - as in engaging in the practice of reducing the enemy's health to 0 - is actually a somewhat interesting and satisfying thing now. Absolutely this. And while fighting being less interesting was maybe part of the theme in Undertale, the effort put into making combat more fun makes me hope for more innovation in how it's actually used in a full Deltarune. Now that we've had our mini-Undertale retread, for example, more future scenarios where you actually do have to fight it out would be welcome. The message of the Spades King fight seemed to lean much stronger on fighting sometimes being necessary than the Asgore fight did, and seeing more ambiguity in when to use violence may also fit if there's going to be more of one path toward one ending this time around. Dolash fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Nov 3, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 02:18
|
|
|
Is there any advice for dodging the secret boss's final attack? Too much is happening and it's hard for me to keep track of the bullets.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 02:40
|
|
|
Dolash posted:The ideal experience is being such a morally pure creature to go full pacifist on your very first playthrough. lol, I did that I believe. But they lock you out of the good ending if you don't make friends. (I think? I definitely killed toriel one run and reloaded/noped out of that save file because I don't' think that's the way it happened). Deltarune looks good... like really good. I don't know if this has been posted/I don't want to read through thread so Toby Fox talking about making Chapter 1 of Delta Rune: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqn3p9 So um, might be a few years before game is finished. Or not. Who knows.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 02:43
|
|
|
Electric Phantasm posted:Is there any advice for dodging the secret boss's final attack? Too much is happening and it's hard for me to keep track of the bullets. Do you have the cake, 2 revive mints, and the rest darkburger? I basically just tanked it, it's too hard to dodge the carousel and that one. I think you just need to stay away from the white lights/move away from white bullets. There's like 2-4 more attacks after the final one depending on how tuckered out the boss is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 02:45
|
|
|
Toalpaz posted:lol, I did that I believe. But they lock you out of the good ending if you don't make friends. (I think? I definitely killed toriel one run and reloaded/noped out of that save file because I don't' think that's the way it happened). If you're full pacifist, you don't need to start the game from scratch again. Boot it up and you can go back to meet Papyrus, Undyne, and Alphys, because it keeps you before the point of no return. Now, if you didn't think to give Undyne water? That's the only non-combat related instance of locking you out of content, and I can understand why that'd get some players even if it seems a fairly obvious leap of logic.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 02:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 21:48 |
|
|
Toalpaz posted:Do you have the cake, 2 revive mints, and the rest darkburger? How do you get the cake? Also Christ I was hoping that would be the last attack considering what he says before doing it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 3, 2018 02:52
|
|