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We ate the food? Doesn't that lock us into the ending where, on the final day, our character dies shortly before the final revelations that tie the plot together from the poison in the food?
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Nov 2, 2018 01:55
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Truthkeeper posted:Finally managed to finish binging this thread. I'm disappointed that people like the protagonist this much. You have to admit that even though Saionji's the worst person who isn't Akio or Anthy it certainly would have been interesting to see what actively pursuing him with protagonist powers would be like. I was actually curious as to whether people would go that route or not, and you can tell in the first post I thought it was a real possibility people might have us go all in on Saionji or Touga out of sadism towards me (Well, I wouldn't have minded Touga). Touga could still happen, I guess, as we've voted his way on every decision we've discussed with him except the chat with Wakaba. I think part of the problem is that Utena's male character designs are...not particularly attractive (Akio possibly excepted). Touga is clearly supposed to be the eye candy of the show but even he is strangely...angular. Also, they're all colossal douchebags excepting Miki, and Miki is dull and uninteresting. We are (for now! Thread can always change its mind, and Day 2 is by no means too late to change targets, and there'll be a vote towards the end of Day 2 as to whether or not we're continuing to chase Jury) committed to attempting to go the Jury route, but I get the impression that, at least from the various playthroughs across the net I've managed to find (I looked up pretty much every English language LP of this game in preparation for this thread and skipped to key moments to see how people deal with this game), pretty much everyone goes for Jury the first time they play and they either succeed or get a bad end attempting it. It's pretty much impossible to find a detailed playthrough of Saionji's route, outside of people showing a few out-of-context images. Randalor posted:We ate the food? Doesn't that lock us into the ending where, on the final day, our character dies shortly before the final revelations that tie the plot together from the poison in the food? What? Don't be silly, why would Anthy want to...   If it makes you feel any better, I think the Protagonist's GI tract did a highly efficient job of expelling anything dangerous in that food, given the toilet scene.
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Nov 2, 2018 02:07
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Truthkeeper posted:Finally managed to finish binging this thread. I'm disappointed that people like the protagonist this much. You have to admit that even though Saionji's the worst person who isn't Akio or Anthy it certainly would have been interesting to see what actively pursuing him with protagonist powers would be like. Like, you get that she's not ACTUALLY an evil witch, right? That's the justification Akio uses for abusing her, as well as 'she enjoys it' when he rapes her and 'she doesn't enjoy anything anyway' for his abuse in general. She is absolutely untrustworthy because she's been sucked into playing along with his poo poo and the only outlet she has for her negative emotions is lashing out manipulatively at other people, which ends up being really easy to do when playing her role involves them abusing her in the first place. But it bothers me when I see people spouting Akio's rhetoric to explain why Anthy is scary. I'm not trying to say that she has no responsibility for her actions, there are some real doozies in there like setting up Utena to be preyed on by Akio and her long-standing gaslighting and assault campaign against Nanami, but I think contextually she's supposed to be a person worn down by god knows how long of abuse and isolation, and while Utena can't save her from her situation, Utena can and did accept Anthy as a person worthy of being treated like a person even after seeing Anthy at her worst, and that's a powerful thing when you've been told for so long that you're an evil witch who soils everything you touch and that nobody other than your abuser and rapist could tolerate being around you. Sure, Utena gets hurt in the aftermath, but I don't see her disappearance as a bad thing, and I think that the ending is ultimately hopeful with both Utena and Anthy escaping the unhealthy coping mechanisms that kept them in Ohtori. EDIT: That said, it's totally cool if someone else has a completely different take, one of the big themes in RGU is that people don't fall neatly into the categories of abuser and survivor a ton of the time, especially if things go unaddressed and unprocessed. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 02:57
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Patter Song posted:I think part of the problem is that Utena's male character designs are...not particularly attractive (Akio possibly excepted). Touga is clearly supposed to be the eye candy of the show but even he is strangely...angular. Also, they're all colossal douchebags excepting Miki, and Miki is dull and uninteresting.
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Nov 2, 2018 02:58
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Anthy is... easily the most "difficult" character of the show, but probably the most important to it's themes and metaphors. She's the abuse victim, the princess, the witch, and the archetypal feminine all in one. Perhaps, as the archetypal feminine, it's fitting that both viewers and the show's own characters only see one part of her. The men view her as an object, to possess or for furthering other goals. The women mostly see her as disgusting and off-putting. Even Utena only sees one part of her, the victim.
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Nov 2, 2018 03:41
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Trying to stay out of the Anthy chat except to point out that she's such a fantastically-written character that it's totally possible to have diametrically opposed views of what her role/character is and be able to support them with evidence from the source material. And yes, I still stand by eating her food.
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Nov 2, 2018 04:41
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Camel Pimp posted:Anthy is... easily the most "difficult" character of the show, but probably the most important to it's themes and metaphors. She's the abuse victim, the princess, the witch, and the archetypal feminine all in one. Perhaps, as the archetypal feminine, it's fitting that both viewers and the show's own characters only see one part of her. The men view her as an object, to possess or for furthering other goals. The women mostly see her as disgusting and off-putting. Even Utena only sees one part of her, the victim. Uh, I kind of got distracted there, but what I mean to say is that by the time Utena opens the gate and reaches into Anthy's coffin, she can no longer see Anthy purely as an abuse survivor, but she is willing to fight through intense pain and bloody her hands to reach for Anthy anyway. And that's always had a huge impact on me, as someone who feels like I don't have a lot of worth due to my own internalized bullshit. Patter Song posted:Trying to stay out of the Anthy chat except to point out that she's such a fantastically-written character that it's totally possible to have diametrically opposed views of what her role/character is and be able to support them with evidence from the source material. PetraCore fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 05:28
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PetraCore posted:
I do feel that you are letting Anthy off too easy, though maybe that's not the appropriate way to put it. I do feel that while Akio is the cause of why Anthy is as bad as she is, but I don't have a good answer for "if someone else is the cause of someone being terrible, at what point can you blame the victim when they end up terrible as well?" In my position I think it's terrible what happened to her, and the decisions she makes is regrettable, but I don't think Anthy ever really shows any indication of wanting to change herself. I know I stated my opinions earlier in the thread about not liking Anthy and a lot of that is due to because she takes no actions to work towards her own freedom, but I do see where you're coming from and why you view her in that way.
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Nov 2, 2018 07:15
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Potsticker posted:I do feel that you are letting Anthy off too easy, though maybe that's not the appropriate way to put it. I do feel that while Akio is the cause of why Anthy is as bad as she is, but I don't have a good answer for "if someone else is the cause of someone being terrible, at what point can you blame the victim when they end up terrible as well?" In my position I think it's terrible what happened to her, and the decisions she makes is regrettable, but I don't think Anthy ever really shows any indication of wanting to change herself. I know I stated my opinions earlier in the thread about not liking Anthy and a lot of that is due to because she takes no actions to work towards her own freedom, but I do see where you're coming from and why you view her in that way. In terms of the character with the most engaging character arc to me, though, that's definitely got to be Nanami. Nanami also starts out as a pretty lovely person, and like Anthy she has her reasons for being such, but you see her growth over the course of the story and in the end I think she's the character best placed to leave Ohtori and move on to something healthier. Like, she literally puts in a transfer request because she realizes her relationship with Touga is unhealthy and that he's bad for her. That's a huge amount of self-awareness that I don't think any other character displays.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:23
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..................... OK, this isn't what I want my thread to look like. Big black boxes is not ok.
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Nov 2, 2018 16:36
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Okay, I'll stop. Sorry, Patter Song!
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Nov 2, 2018 16:59
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Leraika posted:Nanami got the best song in the musical, too. i got around to watching the whole thing and you're 100% right. i wish she had a bigger role but...i don't even know where to start with how great this bit is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdugBR7kGLc well ok that being said its so hard to choose a best part between saionji being even more of a sad joke, or juri's "hello ladies" brooding. or anthy.
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Nov 2, 2018 17:58
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By the way, I am calling it for A + 18. Vote is 7 to 3.
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Nov 2, 2018 19:09
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Patter Song posted:I think part of the problem is that Utena's male character designs are...not particularly attractive (Akio possibly excepted). Touga is clearly supposed to be the eye candy of the show but even he is strangely...angular. Also, they're all colossal douchebags excepting Miki, and Miki is dull and uninteresting. Attractiveness being highly subjective, I do agree that Touga is probably drawn the least physically attractive of the main three guys, (oh wait, Miki is a guy too. Right.) but that he's got a fairly attractive personality compared to the other two. If Saionji's introduction wasn't so overwhelmingly negative perhaps things would be different, but I definitely agree with PetraCore that he and Touga are a great pair for each other.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:24
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I thought Ruka looked good but being a totally irredeemable rear end in a top hat even by "man in Utena" standards is very unattractive.
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Nov 2, 2018 23:31
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Patter Song posted:I think part of the problem is that Utena's male character designs are...not particularly attractive (Akio possibly excepted). Touga is clearly supposed to be the eye candy of the show but even he is strangely...angular. Also, they're all colossal douchebags excepting Miki, and Miki is dull and uninteresting. Azza Bamboo posted:I thought Ruka looked good but being a totally irredeemable rear end in a top hat even by "man in Utena" standards is very unattractive. Ruka is unarguably hyper-sexy.
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Nov 3, 2018 00:10
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Blue Labrador posted:I agree that Miki isn't really sexually attractive in his own right, but I don't think he's dull and uninteresting. He's actually one of my favorite characters on the show simply because he gets along with everyone. I guess that's not purely "on him" so to speak, but I think a lot is added to the other characters and the show as a whole in how he brings out a lot of positive character traits you don't normally see from the others simply by being one of the few non-hostile relationships they have with another person.
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Nov 3, 2018 01:18
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Patter Song posted:I think part of the problem is that Utena's male character designs are...not particularly attractive (Akio possibly excepted). Touga is clearly supposed to be the eye candy of the show but even he is strangely...angular. Also, they're all colossal douchebags excepting Miki, and Miki is dull and uninteresting. I'd argue none of the character designs are all that attractive. Those pupil-less eyes... (But I mean, if we have to chose, yeah Ruka's probably the best looking)
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Nov 3, 2018 01:23
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Camel Pimp posted:I'd argue none of the character designs are all that attractive. Those pupil-less eyes... I probably shouldn't have phrased it that way. I meant it more as "Touga is clearly intended to be the 'eye-candy' character, but he has a triangular head..." The manga has Touga in one of his "romantic" scenes wearing a The Wizard of Oz T-shirt.
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Nov 3, 2018 02:45
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 You are too naive, Miki. You believe any man from Nebraska who says he's an all-powerful wizard who will give you the Power to Revolutionize the World in his letters but never lets you see his face. Holy poo poo, I never thought about this before, but that shirt could totally be foreshadowing for Akio...except manga Akio's not exactly a Wizard of Oz figure.
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Nov 3, 2018 02:54
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Haha you know since he owns that shirt he's like hella into really obscure 70s Prog Rock or, like, pinball.Patter Song posted:Holy poo poo, I never thought about this before, but that shirt could totally be foreshadowing for Akio...except manga Akio's not exactly a Wizard of Oz figure.
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Nov 3, 2018 03:05
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I'm very tempted to write a full-fledged "If I only had a brain/heart/nerve" parody featuring Saionji as the Scarecrow, Touga as the Tin Man, and Miki as the Cowardly Lion (with Utena as Dorothy), but that might be taking the joke too far. Anyway, going to play the update now. Update will go up either tonight or tomorrow depending on how tired I get.
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Nov 3, 2018 03:23
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Patter Song posted:"Touga is clearly intended to be the 'eye-candy' character, but he has a triangular head..." For other reasons too, but this is one of the reasons I really enjoyed Gakuen Handsome.
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Nov 3, 2018 08:02
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Okay I looked that up, and drat it looks hysterical, and I'm surprised how many idiots in reviews don't get that it's clearly a deliberate parody.
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Nov 3, 2018 19:03
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Robindaybird posted:I'm surprised how many idiots in reviews don't get that it's clearly a deliberate parody. 
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Nov 3, 2018 20:57
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12 episodes...that's a big commitment... 3 and a half minute episodes!?! I am bingeing this thing right now. EDIT: Episode 3 and the "cool guy" who is so shy he can't get "yoroshiku onegaishimasu" out of his mouth. Handsome Gakuen is hilarious. EDIT: OMG the ED. The dancing. The dancing! The human body doesn't bend like that! This is perfect! Right off of 2001 Newgrounds, complete with the dialogue. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 3, 2018 23:59
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It's important to remember that not everything you see in Utena is exactly as it is. [talking about characters not actually being there maybe] Allegory is a really strong part of Utena, particularly visual allegory (the fax machine in the barn is my favorite example, and one that I think works particularly well). I think probably the key takeaway though is that, generally speaking, everyone in the show has good intentions (even Akio!), but they tend to go about them in stupendously stupid ways. In particular, Anthy's "imprisonment" of the White Prince is done out of care for the Prince's health - since this is the version the Shadow Girls share, you can generally assume it's true, since the entire point of that sequence is to clear up problems with the plot, and they also go against the common knowledge that the Witch "kidnapped and locked away" the Prince - and results in her real body being stuck in that torture pit; a fairly literal example of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Ace of Aces fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 02:08
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Could you please, please put most of that stuff in spoiler tags? Especially the Ruka stuff? Granted, he's not in the game, but seriously. That's giving away one of the best two-parters in the series. There are people here who keep posting that they haven't watched the show.
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Nov 4, 2018 02:52
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Chapter XIV: Going Clubbing Soundtrack: After School Girls https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-G1ipZvIjE  Obviously, we're not going to take advice from the scary girl (...maybe Chigusa's a boy, better look again) who clearly hates us. We're going with our guts. A+18 it is. That sounds more like an algebra answer than 38, anyway. Patter Song: It's A+18. Teacher: Correct. Everyone, it looks like our new students are quite impressive! Try your best not to fall behind! Good, you're not a complete idiot, Protagonist-Us. But why would Chigusa try to sabotage us? Patter Song: (I'm so glad...my first thought was right after all.)  Patter Song: (Why? Because I didn't use the answer she gave me?) Clearly. She wanted to humiliate us in front of the school and make us look like fools. Luckily, that will never happen.  Look how popular we are! Everyone loves Patter Song. Let her do her worst...we'll beat her at every turn.  Wait, what?  Why am I losing one affinity with all of them?  Stop it! My popularity! Don't go!  JURY!!! This will not stand. How could this get any worse?  Oh...that's OK, then. Carry on.  Meet one of the game's central mechanics, the Chigusa cull. Every once in a while, Chigusa will take away a certain amount of affinity between you and every other character. I will not explain the mechanics behind how they determine it, but I will say it's based on your choices in interactions with her and that in this particular encounter, she could've taken anywhere between 0 and 4(!!!) affinity with all the characters. If she had taken away four full roses worth of affinity, our % value with Saionji and Miki would be near-zero and the other three would be not much higher. Chigusa's cull is the reason why it's very easy to get a game over in this game. As is, the thread only lost one in this encounter, so we're doing pretty well!  Suddenly, the logic behind the frequent save points becomes a lot clearer, doesn't it? Soundtrack: Morning Lyrical https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn11eyxGY1k  Your day at school was all of one math problem. You don't get to complain. Patter Song: (Now, I should make the rounds and check out the clubs right away. Which club should I visit first?)  Yes, we're already to the vote. As we no doubt remember, the Fencing Club is headed by Chigusa (Thread Opinion: ) ...but didn't Jury (Thread Opinion:  ) also say she headed the Fencing Club? Miki (Thread Opinion:  ) definitely said he was in the Fencing Club. Well, whatever, we'll sort it out if we go that way. The Kendo Club is headed by Saionji (Thread Opinion:  ), and I know you all don't like Saionji, but like I said before, I make decisions on character interactions based on the mood of the thread, so don't fear that I'll have you romance Saionji if we pick that option. There's also the Newspaper Club which has never appeared in Utena. It is a complete mystery. Who writes the Ohtori paper? Wakaba? Anthy? Chu-Chu?  It might be interesting exploring that option and exploring a new side of Ohtori. This is the first choice that involves missable content in the LP, and not just "I missed a cool scene here," but actual plot-relevant info and cool sequences. This game's replay value is all about taking multiple routes, and you will miss interesting things in this game no matter which decision you pick. For example, my favorite track in the Utena OST, Orpheus, plays in the Kendo Club. As far as I know, it's the only place in the game it plays!We're technically done for the day, but because this update is so short, I thought I'd leave you with a parting present. Patter Song posted:I'm very tempted to write a full-fledged "If I only had a brain/heart/nerve" parody featuring Saionji as the Scarecrow, Touga as the Tin Man, and Miki as the Cowardly Lion (with Utena as Dorothy), but that might be taking the joke too far. No one should actually read this posted:Saionji: And with that done, until next time, The Absolute Destiny Apocalypse! Patter Song fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 05:20
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Obviously since both Juri and Chigusa are captain of the it, we must away to the Fencing Club
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Nov 4, 2018 06:37
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Let's visit the fencing club. Chigusa's fishy and owes us answers, and Jury's there.
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Nov 4, 2018 06:47
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We should figure out what's going on at the Fencing Club.
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Nov 4, 2018 08:05
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Kendo Club because someone is legally obligated to vote for Saionji
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Nov 4, 2018 08:09
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Kendo Club because we might get another chance to make Saionji look ridiculous.
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Nov 4, 2018 08:15
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Newspaper club, because I'm curious about what goes in in a place with no named characters involved, and it's not like anybody else will vote for it.
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Nov 4, 2018 08:19
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Truthkeeper posted:Newspaper club, because I'm curious about what goes in in a place with no named characters involved, and it's not like anybody else will vote for it. I really like the idea that your social options at Ohtori are: Japanese-style swordfighting. Western-style swordfighting. School paper. Healthy balance of activities there.
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Nov 4, 2018 08:21
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Technically, we're only allowed to do journalism because of that quote about the pen being mightier than the sword.
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Nov 4, 2018 08:23
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Kendo Club because you get to hit people.
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Nov 4, 2018 08:24
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Patter Song posted:I really like the idea that your social options at Ohtori are: It's bizarre, Ohtori seems like the kind of place that should be drowning in clubs and activities. It's a huge boarding school with a budget that probably dwarfs small nations. I mean, it's established fact that the student council does nothing but throw lavish parties and fight for the right to own a human being and maybe get control of a poorly defined power, but what the hell do the rest of the students do when they're not in class? We know there are sports other than the two sword clubs (well, we know there are basketball players who got schooled by Utena). Are we seriously expected to believe that that giant greenhouse full of roses is just there for Anthy? Actually, that last one seems oddly plausible.
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Nov 4, 2018 09:52
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Our relationship with Jury has been damaged enough that it needs to go up again, so Fencing it is. So far, every time we piss off Chigusa, it seems to do less damage to our other relationships. So theoretically we're doing good so far, sample size of one.
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Nov 4, 2018 10:05
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