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Party Plane Jones posted:Doesn't Hickenlooper have an ethics probe against him going on right now? Not like that's going to stop anybody in the post-escalator world.
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Nov 3, 2018 01:33
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Brown had been advocating single payer for like 20 years.
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Nov 3, 2018 03:08
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Is Sherrod one of those types of politicians that would claim to be for something, but then never actually try to make it happen?
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Nov 3, 2018 03:32
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Sherrod Brown opposed the Iraq War, opposed free trade deals, has an “F” from the NRA, and was pushing to break up the banks during the financial crisis. The idea that he is all talk and no follow-through is perplexing when he’s been one of the leading progressive voices in Congress since the 1990s.
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Nov 3, 2018 03:41
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QuoProQuid posted:Sherrod Brown opposed the Iraq War, opposed free trade deals, has an “F” from the NRA, and was pushing to break up the banks during the financial crisis. I'm surprised he's still in office.
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Nov 3, 2018 03:52
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Brony Car posted:I'm surprised he's still in office. He is my senator. I really think his success can be chalked up to the fact that there is always a clear contrast with his Republican opponent whenever he runs. Brown's consistency on progressive issues gives him a progressive street-level cred that cant be turned out to volunteer and canvas pretty reliably. Speaking of local Ohio issues, im volunteering to phone bank for Issue 1 and its depressing how hard it is to breakthrough the propaganda the private prison industry is spewing about this thing. Issue 1 would reduce all drug possession crimes to misdemeanors at max commute the felony sentences for people already in prison and guarantees that the money saved from locking people up less will go to rehabilitation and prevention for the opioid crisis. I saw a couple anti issue 1 pamphlets laying around the common area of the college I work at and it's disgusting what kind of dog whistles they are using. On the back of this pamphlet is this young white baby that you got to be worried these thugs might hurt if they get out of prison while inside the bifold it blames those Rich Jews George Soros and Mark Zuckerberg for pushing issue 1. This was the same week that the shooting massacre at the Pennsylvania synagogue happened too!
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Nov 4, 2018 00:29
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Hellblazer187 posted:Brown had been advocating single payer for like 20 years. And yet he has failed to sponsor a bill to support it during his time in the Senate, despite ample opportunities. quote:Harwood: Is Medicare-for-all socialism? Absolute bullshit. In 2004, 2008, this was a valid excuse. In 2018, 2019, 2020, Medicare-for-All should be a requirement to run as a Democrat for President, just like supporting marriage equality or abortion rights. ChipNDip fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 02:44
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Anyone who whines about fiscal responsibility is just looking for an excuse not to do anything. The government has vast fortunes available and can create more. We just choose to spend it on bombing people and corporate handouts
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Nov 4, 2018 03:03
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Oh good, a plan that will help me get health care in 21 years if I can afford to buy it. I am so excited.  If you're touting a "we'll slowly expand healthcare to everyone over the course of twenty years" plan you needed to start it twenty years ago. It's 2018 and we've waited long enough for actual modern health care, thanks.
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Nov 4, 2018 03:09
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Is the rationale "while we're the minority party" there's no point in trying for single payer? It really is baffling. He's got one of the farthest left voting records and has supported single payer for decades. Maybe this is so nobody bothers asking him to run for president. Or maybe he turns around and cosponsors right after midterms.
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Nov 4, 2018 04:06
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Hellblazer187 posted:It really is baffling. Is it though? Is it really?
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Nov 4, 2018 04:42
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Not a Step posted:Is it though? Is it really? Yes
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Nov 4, 2018 04:43
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I won't defend his waffling on M4A, but Brown has generally been really good, especially considering that he's representing OH. He's in the top 10 most progressive senators on Progressive Punch, 1 rank ahead of Bernie, and he's the only one of them who isn't from a solid blue state. I don't think he's going to run for president though so meh. And I guarantee you he wouldn't be any kind of opponent or impediment to M4A under a hypothetical President Bernie.
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Nov 4, 2018 05:03
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SousaphoneColossus posted:I won't defend his waffling on M4A, but Brown has generally been really good, especially considering that he's representing OH. He's in the top 10 most progressive senators on Progressive Punch, 1 rank ahead of Bernie, and he's the only one of them who isn't from a solid blue state. Is that ranking chart a joke?
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Nov 4, 2018 06:20
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is that ranking chart a joke? They use what I am going to charitably call an interesting set of metrics: quote:After going through a number of steps and gyrations, we came up with a list of eleven hard-core progressive United States Senators (11% of that body) and 37 hard-core progressive United States Representatives (about 9% of that body). The algorithm that we've used to come up with these progressive scores is as follows: We take ANY VOTE in which a majority of the progressives we've identified--so in the House say, if there were no absences, it would be 19 of 37--voted in opposition to a majority of the Republican caucus and have that vote qualify for the database. The same process is used in the Senate. So, non-ideological votes such as National Groundhog Day: 429-0 with 6 absences, do not qualify for the database. ANY vote in which a majority of progressives in the progressive cohort listed just below here votes against a majority of Republicans qualifies for the database and is included in the Overall % scores. Here's their list of progressives. If half of these people vote against the Republicans on any bill, that vote becomes part of the ranking: quote:WI Tammy Baldwin Edit: Chuck Schumer is ranked as the 19th most progressive Senator. Wicked Them Beats fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 06:37
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is that ranking chart a joke? The methodology is extremely wonky and needlessly complex, so the fine distinctions and rank ordering are probably garbage. For the Senate, they took the 11 most 'progressive' Senators and only looked at votes where a majority (6) voted against a majority of Republicans. Then they broke it down into votes where the margin of victory was narrow (6 votes in the Senate) and called those 'crucial votes'. Missing a crucial vote or responding present is an automatic fail. Non close votes were also marked crucial if a majority of the 'progressives', as defined by them, were on the losing side of a vote against a Democratic controlled legislature, or when at least 3/4s of the progressives were on the losing side against a Republican controlled legislature and at least 10% of the Democrats defected to the Republican position. A nice simple algorithm really
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Nov 4, 2018 06:39
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Yeah I know that chart is kinda goofy but it still demonstrates that Brown is very much on the left of the dem caucus despite coming from a conservative state.
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Nov 4, 2018 06:40
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'Progressive' Democrat is an extremely low bar to clear. Hes ok, but he could be better. Medicare buy in at 55 is better than nothing, but still kinda poo poo. Id be fine voting for him in the general, I guess, but not in the primaries
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Nov 4, 2018 06:49
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Not a Step posted:The methodology is extremely wonky and needlessly complex, so the fine distinctions and rank ordering are probably garbage. For the Senate, they took the 11 most 'progressive' Senators and only looked at votes where a majority (6) voted against a majority of Republicans. Then they broke it down into votes where the margin of victory was narrow (6 votes in the Senate) and called those 'crucial votes'. Missing a crucial vote or responding present is an automatic fail. Non close votes were also marked crucial if a majority of the 'progressives', as defined by them, were on the losing side of a vote against a Democratic controlled legislature, or when at least 3/4s of the progressives were on the losing side against a Republican controlled legislature and at least 10% of the Democrats defected to the Republican position. This is a lot of words to say, “yes it is a joke.”
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Nov 4, 2018 17:46
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Kobayashi posted:This is a lot of words to say, “yes it is a joke.” 
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Nov 4, 2018 17:57
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everyone in this thread knows the only REAL ranking of how progressive an elected official will be is how he makes me feel down in my loins, instinctively i can make up whatever i like to justify that and then ragingly insist everyone else is a fascist wannabe and sit smug at home rather than voting in 2020 when my loin-tingler doesn't win the primary
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Nov 4, 2018 18:00
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Mukaikubo posted:everyone in this thread knows the only REAL ranking of how progressive an elected official will be is how he makes me feel down in my loins, instinctively Despite my intense fetish for powerful women I didn't vote for Hillary.
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Nov 4, 2018 18:03
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Wicked Them Beats posted:They use what I am going to charitably call an interesting set of metrics: This is the stupidest thing I've seen in my life.
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Nov 4, 2018 18:08
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SousaphoneColossus posted:I won't defend his waffling on M4A, but Brown has generally been really good, especially considering that he's representing OH. He's in the top 10 most progressive senators on Progressive Punch, 1 rank ahead of Bernie, and he's the only one of them who isn't from a solid blue state. Rankings like this ignore the fact that elected officials can only vote on what comes up for a vote. And I would say that the real difference between "moderate but loyal democrats" and leftists are on things that have never come up for a vote (M4a, $15 minimum wage, free college, etc). Any measure that doesn't take that into account isn't a real measure of how progressive or leftist anyone is.
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Nov 4, 2018 18:08
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Hellblazer187 posted:Is the rationale "while we're the minority party" there's no point in trying for single payer? It really is baffling. He's got one of the farthest left voting records and has supported single payer for decades. Maybe this is so nobody bothers asking him to run for president. Or maybe he turns around and cosponsors right after midterms. Yes, it sure is baffling why Sherrod Brown is not a strong advocate of single-payer healthcare.     What a puzzler, huh?
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Nov 4, 2018 18:14
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Willa Rogers posted:Yes, it sure is baffling why Sherrod Brown is not a strong advocate of single-payer healthcare.
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Nov 4, 2018 18:50
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you know how you look at all those people at trump rallies. who are cheering for a guy who's gleefully making all their lives worse, because he's making the right mouth-noises at them in the moment. you know the revulsion and shame by proxy you feel, seeing such absolute loving suckers cheering for their own annihilation, because they think Trump is on their side? and refuse to see he would kill all of them in a heartbeat if it would get him an invite to the RIGHT kind of New York party? sure is a good thing that you aren't like that at all, isn't it. sherrod brown is a Good Person. why -would- he oppose medicare for all. when he is good, and strong, and my friend, who has my best interests at heart.
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Nov 4, 2018 19:41
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:you know how you look at all those people at trump rallies. who are cheering for a guy who's gleefully making all their lives worse, because he's making the right mouth-noises at them in the moment. you know the revulsion and shame by proxy you feel, seeing such absolute loving suckers cheering for their own annihilation, because they think Trump is on their side? and refuse to see he would kill all of them in a heartbeat if it would get him an invite to the RIGHT kind of New York party? Why are you being an rear end in a top hat about this?
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Nov 4, 2018 19:58
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The guy who had been the second loudest advocate for single payer in the Senate over the last 12 years isn't signing on to to M4A bill. I find that weird. Willa comes in and shows evidence he's been paid off, which is depressing but at least an understandable rationale. You come in and call me a CHUD.
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Nov 4, 2018 20:04
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Interesting that Tammy Baldwin (#5 and #8 on the health professionals and hospital lists) is a cosponsor of Bernie's M4A bill. And what are those first two lists from? They just say "Insurance" and "Lobbyists" without specifying an industry. eta: also those lists are all 2018 only so yeah you'd expect the senators up for reelection in 2018 to have more campaign contributions than ones who aren't up this cycle. if you really want a gotcha then let's compare contributions over a longer period SousaphoneColossus fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 20:22
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How do people keep saying he's a single payer advocate when he explicitly advocates for a plan that isn't single payer? Opt-in to medicare for over 55s isn't a single payer plan by any stretch of the imagination.
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Nov 4, 2018 20:28
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It's single payer for the people killing the Earth. Personally I'm waiting for a candidate brave enough to support a M4A program but only people younger than 55 get access to healthcare.
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Nov 4, 2018 20:31
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All of this discussion is about the fact that Brown is not vocally supporting the Bernie M4A bill. Brown has a well documented history of supporting single payer.quote:Then, there's Sen. Sherrod Brown. Brown is a longtime supporter of single-payer health insurance, a less flashy name for Medicare for All. But when Sen. Bernie Sanders last year introduced a Medicare for All bill, Brown didn't join other prominent Democrats in co-sponsoring it. Instead, he threw his support behind a more incremental plan that would allow people as young as 55 to buy their way into Medicare coverage, which normally kicks in at 65. quote:But Brown did not join other Senate Democratic progressives in September in co-sponsoring legislation introduced by Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Brown said in a statement at the time he has “always been supportive of Medicare for all,” but “right now, I’m focused on building bipartisan support for my bill to allow people to buy into the Medicare program at age 55, which will cut costs and expand choices for Ohioans.” quote:I am very disturbed that I am unable to bring the amendment that I wanted to bring to the floor of the Senate. I thank Senator Reid for allowing me to try to bring it up before it was obstructed and delayed and prevented by the Republican leadership. My amendment, which was cosponsored by Senators Sherrod Brown and Roland Burris, would have instituted a Medicare-for-all single-payer program. I was more than aware and very proud that, were it not for the Republican's obstructionist tactics, this would have been the first time in American history that a Medicare-for-all single-payer bill was brought to a vote before the floor of the Senate. I was more than aware that this amendment would not win. I knew that. But I am absolutely convinced that this legislation or legislation like it will eventually become the law of the land. It's an easy narrative to assume that health insurance lobbyists opened a briefcase full of cash and Brown had cartoon dollar signs popping out of his eyes but as always it's probably more complicated than that. eta: all of this is moot because a) I'm 99% sure he's not running for president in 2020 and b) he's not going to be the 51st vote against M4A (or a no vote period) under a President Bernie. SousaphoneColossus fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Nov 4, 2018 |
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Nov 4, 2018 20:34
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So he even co-sponsored a different M4A plan that Bernie put out, just not the current one. But yes clearly I'm exactly the same a Trump supporter for wondering why he's not cosigning the current M4A bill.
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Nov 4, 2018 20:43
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SousaphoneColossus posted:All of this discussion is about the fact that Brown is not vocally supporting the Bernie M4A bill. Brown has a well documented history of supporting single payer. That's not a single payer plan. So maybe he used to advocate for single payer, but he's stopped. What made him change?
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Nov 4, 2018 20:45
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Trabisnikof posted:
It's not inherently opposing single payer to support and hope to pass a 55 and up medicare buy-in in the interim.
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Nov 4, 2018 20:47
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Hellblazer187 posted:So he even co-sponsored a different M4A plan that Bernie put out, just not the current one. you are wondering a thing to which there is an answer, but it is an answer you do not want to hear. the answer is "he has been bought, and paid for, to work for someone who is not you."
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Nov 4, 2018 20:49
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SousaphoneColossus posted:It's not inherently opposing single payer to support and hope to pass a 55 and up medicare buy-in in the interim. Much like supporting $12.50 an hour isn't inherently opposing $15.00 an hour. But it doesn't make it a strong political position either way and there's no reason voters should automatically believe you support the more radical position while you advocate for a more conservative one.
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Nov 4, 2018 20:52
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This thread: Only trust people who've vocally supported M4A for 20 years. Also this thread: Sherrod Brown has been bought by the insurance industry.
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Nov 4, 2018 21:02
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Trabisnikof posted:Much like supporting $12.50 an hour isn't inherently opposing $15.00 an hour. But it doesn't make it a strong political position either way and there's no reason voters should automatically believe you support the more radical position while you advocate for a more conservative one. Right, but what if a person signed on to $15/hr in 2009, and says in interviews "I still support $15/hour but right now I'm focusing on $12.50/hour." Because that's the comparison. Sherrod should co-sponsor the current bill or give a very good reason not to, and I'm not saying he's not bought off. Maybe he is! It'd be weird to be a good one for 20 years and get bought off now, though.
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Nov 4, 2018 21:04
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