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I can’t afford red meat at it’s current prices anyway
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Nov 7, 2018 12:28
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bowmore posted:that sounds fine to me Out of curiousity, are you a vegetarian? As someone who mostly cooks vegetarian these days an additional tax doesn't bother me personally too much. However, I already know it'd be yet another thing of The Culture Wars, with people getting bent out of shape about how "unAustralian" it is, and suddenly everyone bandying about the story of the impoverished pensioner who can't afford their nice Sunday dinner. Edit: Plus the already existing and very real issue of food insecurity amongst the poor. froglet fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Nov 7, 2018 |
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Nov 7, 2018 12:43
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bowmore posted:that sounds fine to me bowmore posted:I can’t afford red meat at it’s current prices anyway Yes, and let's make the diets of the poor or not well off worse with putting a massive tax on a regularly consumed food product.
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Nov 7, 2018 12:44
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You Am I posted:Yes, and let's make the diets of the poor or not well off worse with putting a massive tax on a regularly consumed food product. The insane demand that climate change only be addressed without damaging anybody's (short-to-medium-term) quality of life is best left to insane conservatives. Obviously the rich are far more responsible for climate change than the poor and should pay more but meat consumption is one area where CEOs are not eating hundreds of times more meat than average people.
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Nov 7, 2018 12:56
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You Am I posted:Yes, and let's make the diets of the poor or not well off worse with putting a massive tax on a regularly consumed food product. *can't afford meat any more, exists on Hungry Man dinners & hot pockets*
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Nov 7, 2018 12:58
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GoldStandardConure posted:*can't afford meat any more, exists on Hungry Man dinners & hot pockets* "Damnit my tooth fell out"
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Nov 7, 2018 13:03
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Back to Attenborough chat, he's terrible at speaking radically of the environment because he's a Malthusian racist who really thinks the solution is to simply purge the planet of undesirables but he's not allowed to say that anymore.
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Nov 7, 2018 13:13
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Don Dongington posted:"Damnit my tooth fell out" YOU WIN THIS ROUND, SCURVY
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Nov 7, 2018 13:23
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Wish they’d put a tax on your loving posting
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Nov 7, 2018 13:35
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Back to Attenborough chat, he's terrible at speaking radically of the environment because he's a Malthusian racist who really thinks the solution is to simply purge the planet of undesirables but he's not allowed to say that anymore. gently caress is there anyone who isn't a gigantic piece of poo poo?
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Nov 7, 2018 13:53
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i mean, his opinions may have changed in the...40? years since the Ethiopian famine. fake edit: 33 years.
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Nov 7, 2018 14:01
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froglet posted:Out of curiousity, are you a vegetarian? I don't even know if it's a culture wars thing, some people just can't fathom a life without meat. They can't even wrap their head around eating LESS meat. I'm in an environmental group that talks with other groups in the area and we talked to one of the heads about having vegetarian bbq's instead of meat to encourage more sustainable eating and she loving lost it. This, despite the fact that she's a greenie leftie.
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Nov 7, 2018 14:12
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Back to Attenborough chat, he's terrible at speaking radically of the environment because he's a Malthusian racist who really thinks the solution is to simply purge the planet of undesirables but he's not allowed to say that anymore. Ethiopia: 1,104,300 km2 United kingdom: 242,495 km2 Population (2007) Ethiopia: 73,750,932 United kingdom: 66,040,229 
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Nov 7, 2018 14:20
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thatbastardken posted:i mean, his opinions may have changed in the...40? years since the Ethiopian famine. he still bangs on about population growth and too many people on the planet these days
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Nov 7, 2018 14:32
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:The insane demand that climate change only be addressed without damaging anybody's (short-to-medium-term) quality of life is best left to insane conservatives. The worst thing is that 30 years ago you could have averted catastrophe with a few relatively minor changes. Sustained over the long term people would not have been too bothered by it. But nope, it didn't happen and now the question is do we want to party while the ship sinks, or do we enact policy that will almost certainly force our most vulnerable people to suffer for a collective good? I kinda wonder if a reluctance to go through with these kind of proposal is a double whammy of protecting the privileged and racism. Like, passing on some of the related externalities associated with things like meat and petrol raises a lot of really uncomfortable questions about how our society has been set up, and I don't think there's any palatable (har har) answer that isn't "eat the rich (coz it'd be tax free)". There's also the unfortunate point that protecting your own poor people in this manner inadvertantly comes at the cost of protecting the global poor. Not to play the Oppression Olympics, but there are people out there who are objectively worse off than most of Australia's poor, and climate change is going to make their poo poo situation even shittier. To clarify: I'm not a proponent of being lovely to the poor here. Just that maintaining the status quo due to a policy of "don't be poo poo to Australia's poor" implies we're comfortable with doing nothing for the global poor while also sheltering the rich folks from real anger at the injustice built into our society. Edit: We can do things that are both not too lovely to the poor while also addressing climate change but apparently that's too much like communism. 
froglet fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Nov 7, 2018 |
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Nov 7, 2018 14:41
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Solemn Sloth posted:Someone call CPS please, I’m pretty sure it’s not legal to whip your children and execute them when they aren’t able to work Little late to horse chat, but if you're criticising the treatment of racehorses (or greyhounds, for that matter), the incidence of EIPH is worse than the euthanasia. While a broken shoulder for a human is painful and can take a while to heal, a broken shoulder for a horse is generally more akin to an injury incompatible to life. If they've got a minor fracture they may be able to perform surgery maybe, but for an actual break or major or multiple fractures, there isn't really anything they can do. I'm not arguing racing good, and it absolutely sucks that Cliffs died, but given the injury he had, euthanasia was almost certainly the most humane option. Yes I was a horse girl, why do you ask?
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Nov 7, 2018 14:42
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I’d watch the world burn before giving up meat for tea, sorry lads.
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Nov 7, 2018 15:03
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norp posted:Ethiopia: 1,104,300 km2  
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Nov 7, 2018 15:31
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thatbastardken posted:i mean, his opinions may have changed in the...40? years since the Ethiopian famine. Sure, but those quotes are from only 5 years ago. So  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/david-attenborough-says-sending-food-to-famine-ridden-countries-is-barmy-8823602.html
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Nov 7, 2018 15:56
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GoldStandardConure posted:he still bangs on about population growth and too many people on the planet these days Haha, I remember Prince Willy espousing that too many Africans poo poo at the Obama foundation a couple years ago, right before announcing he was having a loving princess The Peccadillo fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Nov 7, 2018 |
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Nov 7, 2018 16:07
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froglet posted:The worst thing is that 30 years ago you could have averted catastrophe with a few relatively minor changes. Sustained over the long term people would not have been too bothered by it. A lot of necessary climate change policy is going to inevitably harm the poor and vulnerable, or appear to do so, simply by virtue of being a huge investment of resources for no direct benefit to anyone (obviously staving off apocalyptic climate change is a benefit, but when this is only observable as 'horrible climate related disasters continue to occur, but less so than if we didn't do anything' nobody will be happy with this achievement within our lifetimes). I think accepting this shift in thinking is one of the largest problems - this may be the fault of the capitalist system's need for constant growth to sustain itself, but every class has absorbed this, not just oligarchs - a homeless person is unlikely to care about a policy that does not directly improve his life regardless of its necessity, like most climate policy. Similarly, if you force a coal mine to close, you may face the most resistance from mining companies and tory politicians, but the lives of the coal miners are always going to be much more badly affected than company executives. All these things still need to be done, and stuff that looks like communism is necessary both to buffer the vulnerable from the worst effects and make these policies electorally palatable to them, but you would have a case for a lot of those communist-seeming things even if climate change was not a problem.
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Nov 7, 2018 16:39
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Arable land (hectares per person) Ethiopia = 0.160 United Kingdom = 0.098 "too many people for too little piece of land"
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Nov 7, 2018 17:59
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I'm pretty sure Planet Earth 2 was fairly reasonable. Showing baby turtles getting crushed by cars and animal stomachs full of plastic and him basically saying adopt those cool nature buildings like in Singapore or suffer the consequences.
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Nov 7, 2018 20:44
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Anidav posted:I'm pretty sure Planet Earth 2 was fairly reasonable. Showing baby turtles getting crushed by cars and animal stomachs full of plastic and him basically saying adopt those cool nature buildings like in Singapore or suffer the consequences. I too saw that Singapore tourism ad masquerading as an episode of a documentary. Are we really meant to believe Singapore is some environmental giant because they got some trees planted in places?
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Nov 7, 2018 20:57
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froglet posted:Edit: We can do things that are both not too lovely to the poor while also addressing climate change but apparently that's too much like communism. Replacing structural issues for industry by moral issues for consumers is a splendid tactic, isn't it. If only we had some kind of clean energy generation thing.
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Nov 7, 2018 21:10
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Craig Kelly replacing Ross Cameron on outsiders. loving lol
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Nov 7, 2018 21:29
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teacup posted:I too saw that Singapore tourism ad masquerading as an episode of a documentary. Are we really meant to believe Singapore is some environmental giant because they got some trees planted in places? Maybe?
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Nov 7, 2018 21:34
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Sparticle posted:Arable land (hectares per person) Did you miss that the conversation started about a national drought.
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Nov 7, 2018 21:52
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Our current society is unlikely to survive the adaptations or impacts to climate change. We can accept and direct it, or ignore it and burn. At a working level. Climate adaptation is continuing apace while our leaders and ceos are taking the latter approach.
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Nov 7, 2018 22:42
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froglet posted:Naming and shaming appeals to our inner bloodthirsty vulture, but I think we should prioritise preventing bad directors from getting away with ripping off others. did you not read the bit about the director ID number?
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Nov 7, 2018 22:44
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Am I mishearing this? ScoMo to announce $2 plan to assist Pacific island nations in a regional development scheme? That sounds warm and neighbourly.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:14
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Gridlocked posted:Am I mishearing this? ScoMo to announce $2 plan to assist Pacific island nations in a regional development scheme? He wants to give the middle finger to China and try to create his own miniature belt and road with Japan which surely won't piss off China further.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:15
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Tony Abbott and conservative MPs campaign to take back control of Liberal partyquote:Special report: Fundraisers and panels aim to convince conservatives to wrest control and potentially reinstall former PM as leader Do it do it do it burn it all down do iiiiiiiiiiit!
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Nov 7, 2018 23:15
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Man, say what you want about Tone, but the motherfucker just never, ever gives up.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:22
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JBP posted:Man, say what you want about Tone, but the motherfucker just never, ever gives up. Principal Skinner chasing Bart through water rapids. But it's Turnbull and Abbott.gif
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Nov 7, 2018 23:24
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Oh the China thing was real. Cool.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:24
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froglet posted:Out of curiousity, are you a vegetarian? You Am I posted:Yes, and let's make the diets of the poor or not well off worse with putting a massive tax on a regularly consumed food product.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:49
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Tony Abbott and conservative MPs campaign to take back control of Liberal party These morons. quote:Themes at these talks are the myth of the climate change crisis, the rise of the left agenda and the need to make Australia secure. We really need to start treating people who don’t “believe” in climate change the same way that you would treat someone who said that they don’t believe in gravity. Like an ignorant anti-science lunatic. You can choose not to believe in gravity if you like, but it exists and you’re still going to feel the effects of it. Same with climate change. It’s not a religion, it’s not about believing or not believing. It’s a scientific fact. I just hate that there is so little pushback on the idea of climate change needing to be something you “believe” in. I often consider how much this situation must parallel the days when Copernicus started saying that the earth revolves around the sun and not vice versa. It seems reasonable back then that people would originally not believe because of how strongly influenced society was by religion and how little general scientific knowledge existed in society. It seems incredible to me that over 500 years later we could possibly end up back in a position where belief and scientific fact are in conflict.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:50
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Gridlocked posted:Am I mishearing this? ScoMo to announce $2 plan to assist Pacific island nations in a regional development scheme? I choose to believe that price tag isn't a typo.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:54
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MysticalMachineGun posted:Tony Abbott and conservative MPs campaign to take back control of Liberal party quote:Tony Abbott and like-minded conservatives are in the midst of a concerted push to claim back the heart and soul of the Liberal party and potentially reinstall him as leader...  Do it you crazy fuckers.quote:...should the party find itself in opposition after next year’s federal election. Oh, dang.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:55
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