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i'm mildly disgusted by the fact that biomute finds the physical existence of a book more important than it's contents. Man i sure do love collecting piles of paper. It's like insisting that the plastic is more important than the artistry of the action figure
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Nov 7, 2018 11:19
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Modern economics is soothsaying for the rich. I think people tend to buy physical RPG books when convenient to read through, but for actual play it's usually infinitely more convenient to use PDFs, pirated if necessary.
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Nov 7, 2018 11:25
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FMguru posted:Literally an IRL example of kingcom posted:Holy lol, going 'actually I was just pretending to be retarded' puppetmaster. Don't call people that, this isn't hard. I'm also tired of people in this thread flaming each other over silly arguments in general, so drop the PDF argument and knock it off.
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Nov 7, 2018 14:12
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I’m not sure I get how JWP’s bundling of the 1st ed 7th Sea material is a negative WRT the current JWP situation. Is the thought process here that it could have been hidden behind a different gate or maybe a later release? Given that it cost JWP nothing or almost nothing to distribute the product to backers, having it as a throw in seems like a good idea to drive eyeballs and money to the new edition. Is it the fact that JWP opted to keep pushing additional books as stretch goals the big mistake here? Or is the fact that JWP has been saddled with having to fulfill both 2ed and Kithai Kickstarters simultaneously? I guess what I’m asking is if looking at the current state of RPG kickstarters what key lessons can you extract from 7th Sea as a case study? Are there better examples of how a RPG KS should be run? Maybe a better example of an RPG KS overreaching on stretch goals?
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Nov 7, 2018 18:02
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Nystral posted:I’m not sure I get how JWP’s bundling of the 1st ed 7th Sea material is a negative WRT the current JWP situation. Is the thought process here that it could have been hidden behind a different gate or maybe a later release? Given that it cost JWP nothing or almost nothing to distribute the product to backers, having it as a throw in seems like a good idea to drive eyeballs and money to the new edition. Bundling the 1e books was fine, even a great idea. The problem was that they bundled in all of the 2e books that comprised the product line going forward, which deprived them of pretty much any income.
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Nov 7, 2018 18:06
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Nystral posted:I’m not sure I get how JWP’s bundling of the 1st ed 7th Sea material is a negative WRT the current JWP situation. Is the thought process here that it could have been hidden behind a different gate or maybe a later release? Given that it cost JWP nothing or almost nothing to distribute the product to backers, having it as a throw in seems like a good idea to drive eyeballs and money to the new edition. It's not about the 1e material - it's that he gave away all the 2e material, which probably cut JWP's income hugely.
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Nov 7, 2018 18:08
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Mors Rattus posted:It's not about the 1e material - it's that he gave away all the 2e material, which probably cut JWP's income hugely. Looking at the campaign, every book I've gotten for the line thus far was a stretch goal in the original KS that a backer could have for only $40. That is crazy and nonsense on a grand scale. Also the very last funded goals were the board game and a cinematic trailer. So... yeah, all this money + money sinks!
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Nov 7, 2018 18:36
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Mors Rattus posted:It's not about the 1e material - it's that he gave away all the 2e material, which probably cut JWP's income hugely. I wonder if this is will also bite the Delta Green people as well, as IIRC they followed a very similar model (abet at a much higher per backer floor)
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Nov 7, 2018 18:39
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Giving away PDFs like that is also godawful from an ongoing marketing and community perspective. It means that your core audience has less incentive to engage with your new books' hype campaigns for as you put them out. They can just sit and wait for the text to hit their email, with zero financial engagement.
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Nov 7, 2018 18:51
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Lemon-Lime posted:It's constant at the undergrad level. You don't stop seeing models that assume rational actors until post-grad economics, if that. Look, if people don't match our models then clearly it's the people who are the problem. E: I joke, but that's basically the conclusion of every experiment I did in undergrad physics. Let's hear it for old communal lab equipment.
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Nov 7, 2018 19:03
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Haystack posted:Giving away PDFs like that is also godawful from an ongoing marketing and community perspective. It means that your core audience has less incentive to engage with your new books' hype campaigns for as you put them out. They can just sit and wait for the text to hit their email, with zero financial engagement.
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Nov 7, 2018 19:14
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Interesting article about KS marketing techniques for a video game but the same methods could be used for TGs of course. http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/ChrisZukowski/20181031/329102/Boyfriend_Dungeon_the_secrets_of_their_email_marketing_strategy.php
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Nov 7, 2018 21:03
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Interesting article about KS marketing techniques for a video game but the same methods could be used for TGs of course. Having more flavorful emails is a really good idea. Something that’s fun to read and engage with, rather than a more flat telling of events.
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Nov 7, 2018 21:14
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Tampons have no value because I don't want to put one up my butt. Discuss. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 7, 2018 21:19
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Actually let's not.
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Nov 7, 2018 21:41
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Meinberg posted:Having more flavorful emails is a really good idea. Something that’s fun to read and engage with, rather than a more flat telling of events. Just don't go full Luke Crane with the eccentric wizard voice.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:27
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LongDarkNight posted:Just go full Luke Crane with the eccentric wizard voice. Fixed for you
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Nov 8, 2018 00:53
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WereGoat posted:Fixed for you Seriously, the only issue I had with Wizard Voice was when he was actively cancelling people's pledges because they had real questions and Wizard Voice wasn't answering them in any sort of reasonable way. Had he just had a Wizard Intern Voice or whatever, I don't think anyone would've cared.
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Nov 8, 2018 01:49
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Sion posted:The cam was real bad for it. Membership Clearance was a feature, not a bug. Not the best post to quite directly but to continue the larp conversation... I've been larping ever since it existed in its current form where I am (Perth, Western Australia). Anyone who we've had from Camarilla/Vampire has been a problem to deal with, from serial harassers to just lovely rules lawyers. Meanwhile the community we've built based on hitting each other with foam swords and not being terrible people is growing constantly to the order of 200+ players for our various games. But we are a wierd as heck case, since we're basically as far away from any larp discussion/established group as you can be without being in Antartica. It's a 4 hour flight for me to go to larp outside my city.
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Nov 8, 2018 15:49
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Cocomonk3 posted:Not the best post to quite directly but to continue the larp conversation... As someone who knows literally nothing about the Australian Larp scene, this is real neat. How often do you meet? And for how long? I imagine less frequently on account of the remoteness.
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Nov 8, 2018 16:09
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Meinberg posted:As someone who knows literally nothing about the Australian Larp scene, this is real neat. How often do you meet? And for how long? I imagine less frequently on account of the remoteness. additionally are you describing Society of Creative Anachronism (SCA) or something wholly different?
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Nov 8, 2018 17:22
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The Lore Bear posted:Had he just had a Wizard Intern Voice or whatever, I don't think anyone would've cared. I wish he'd posted as the belabored go-between for the backers and the gonzo cave wizard: I forwarded your questions The Wizard and he replied "<Luke Crane garbage>," which hopefully means shipping starts in 3-4 weeks. That way he still gets to be a loving pretentious weirdo, but we all get information. Everybody wins!
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Nov 8, 2018 18:32
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moths posted:I wish he'd posted as the belabored go-between for the backers and the gonzo cave wizard: Pretty much. There's a reason Elminster can break the third wall and talk directly in game terms so you actually know what kind of whoopass is on the other side of those rude-rear end drow titties.
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Nov 8, 2018 18:36
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I mean, Elminster also wasn't nearly as difficult to understand as those emails.
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Nov 8, 2018 19:05
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Dawgstar posted:Also the very last funded goals were the board game and a cinematic trailer. So... yeah, all this money + money sinks! Yeah, I remember commenting "please don't scope creep" at the time. Instead, we've gotten the cinematic trailer (filmed but never released, as far as I can tell?), two attempts at the board game, and an attempted video game. Granted, I don't know how much each of these cost- the board game seemed to be largely complete when I saw it at conventions, and the video game never got beyond the "pitch video" level, but it can't have helped. Granted, as a backer it was pretty much the $40 level that pulled me in to begin with, and I wasn't alone. What probably hurt them more, though, strangely, was the "just the core book" tiers, which got people all the PDFs and required them to produce and ship a book for over 5,000 people at... basically $20 over the PDF tier? That can't have helped. On top of this news- in fact, right before it- was the announcement of 7th Sea: 1868 as well, which makes me wonder if John is going to the "borrow from Peter to pay Paul" trap of kickstarter usage. It could be a bad scene if he does.
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Nov 9, 2018 16:28
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Hahaha, I forgot all about the dreadful looking video game Kickstarter. Jesus.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:17
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So wait, I assume Rokugan from L5R is no longer part of the 7th Sea world or is there some kind of deal with FFG or?
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Nov 9, 2018 21:07
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It never was, except in some weird fever dreams of a handful of writers. Even in 7th Sea 1e they eventually did a book that produced a very different-looking Not Asia.
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Nov 9, 2018 21:15
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Mors Rattus posted:It never was, except in some weird fever dreams of a handful of writers. Even in 7th Sea 1e they eventually did a book that produced a very different-looking Not Asia. Yeah. I can't ever recall that notion being serious. The dudes who rolled up with cannons were just explorers/pirates/whatever, they weren't from Castille or something.
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Nov 9, 2018 21:24
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The Lore Bear posted:Seriously, the only issue I had with Wizard Voice was when he was actively cancelling people's pledges because they had real questions and Wizard Voice wasn't answering them in any sort of reasonable way. Had he just had a Wizard Intern Voice or whatever, I don't think anyone would've cared.
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Nov 9, 2018 23:51
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Warthur posted:That and the way he was more or less openly gloating about cancelling pledges on Twitter. Yeah, this was extremely off putting. I probably won't back another Luke Crane thing again because he was such a titanic dick about people wanting to know reasonable things.
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Nov 10, 2018 00:13
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What was particularly galling for me was that at the time (and possibly presently, I haven't checked) Crane worked for Kickstarter, and I kind of feel like people who have a publicly-visible connection to the company ought to run their projects on a "This is what best practice looks like" basis, not a "This is my private thing and I'm going to do it how I wanna do it  " basis.EDIT: Or, indeed, not use the platform at all because there's kind of an intrinsic conflict of interest there.
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Nov 10, 2018 00:16
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Who works at FFG/Asmodee and can explain why they have the foresight to print card sleeve size numbers on their games with cards but then don't actually put that size number on any of the packaging on their entire line of sleeves? Some real fuckin' brain geniuses at that operation, I tell ya.
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Nov 10, 2018 23:45
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Lord_Hambrose posted:I won't back another Luke Crane thing again because he is such a titanic dick.
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Nov 10, 2018 23:48
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Luke Crane is good though, and his games are good and papery.
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Nov 11, 2018 00:07
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Having an obtuse wizard make everything complicated is incredibly close to what it's like to read Burning Wheel.
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Nov 11, 2018 00:19
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Yeah, it's a good read, but hard to get people into.
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Nov 11, 2018 00:21
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Crane is a good designer but his business is basically designed around making exactly the product he wants to use himself, and he won't lift a finger to accommodate anybody else (see: he doesn't use PDFs, so nobody gets one).
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Nov 11, 2018 01:23
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Nystral posted:I wonder if this is will also bite the Delta Green people as well, as IIRC they followed a very similar model (abet at a much higher per backer floor) Delta Green's relevant pledge levels: $20 -- the Agent's Handbook PDF, a bunch of random adventures, and the Control Group campaign book $25 -- the above and any one extra PDF $80 -- the above and all stretch goal PDFs $100 -- everything funded in PDF (basically an extra $20 to get the Case Officer's Handbook for GMs along with the Agent's Handbook for players) During the campaign they took several of the smaller free PDFs and turned them into a book called... The Complex, IIRC? The other substantial books: Falling Towers, Deep State, and Impossible Landscapes. So If you went in at the $100 level, you were getting seven PDFs for $14 apiece. $80 level is consistent with that, roughly $13 per PDF. Getting the Agent's Handbook plus any one other PDF plus Control Group plus The Complex for $25 is a good bargain, but it's not a deadly one. And most of the small adventure PDFs were older adventures that just needed conversion to the new rules. Not a ton of work. It'll take a while for Delta Green to complete, but I have faith. Now, 7th Sea charged me $40 for every single PDF. 12 books. 3 bucks a PDF. OW. And no reason for anyone to go higher unless they love physical books. Average pledge, btw: $115 for 7th Sea, $143 for DG.
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Nov 11, 2018 02:08
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food court bailiff posted:Who works at FFG/Asmodee and can explain why they have the foresight to print card sleeve size numbers on their games with cards but then don't actually put that size number on any of the packaging on their entire line of sleeves? Some real fuckin' brain geniuses at that operation, I tell ya. The numbers aren't the type of sleeves but the numbers of sleeve packs you would need. I think the sleeves are simply color coded. So you see the colored box with a number in it to let you know how many of that color package you need. It's been a little while since I bought a FFG game but thats how I remember it.
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Nov 11, 2018 03:07
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