Cyrano4747 posted:

That’s not to say that restoring rights to ex convicts isn’t the right thing to do and that it won’t t have electoral impacts but it’s not a simple cure all.

docbeard posted:

If Cythereal is in Georgia as I halfway recall then their unhappiness makes sense.

There were some victories last night (I'm quite happy with Minnesota's results) and some defeats but overall I think we're headed into darkness (but when hasn't that been true) , and I for one will welcome any prayers for guidance, inspiration and encouragement, and y'all absolutely have mine for the same.

Cythereal posted:

https://i.imgur.com/4h9KdqE.mp4

Cythereal posted:

Cythereal posted:

https://i.imgur.com/GYIq46t.mp4

Jedi Knight Luigi posted:

Honestly if I were in FL, even though I didn’t think he would win anyway, I would be pretty upset about Gillum losing by that slim a margin, especially in proportion to the rest of the country.

Night10194 posted:

Sometimes I feel like the atmosphere of constant despair is self-reinforcing and pretty unhelpful.

HEY GUNS posted:

Cyth: "Democracy is DOOMED"

Cythereal posted:

Cyth: Florida had a good chance to finally elect a decent person as governor and refuse to pass amendments that are going to gently caress up the state's tax situation, and blew it.

Democracy is no more doomed than it was yesterday or will be tomorrow, but I am dismayed with how my state turned out and it's not helped my persistent struggle with severe depression.

Deteriorata posted:

Last night was a single battle. The war goes on. Do not despair or submit.

quote:

On paper, Tuesday was a good day for Democrats. You're not sad because "The Democrats did badly."

You're also not sad because Beto lost, or Andrew Gillum lost, or any other single candidate who got people excited this year fell short. They will be back.

No, you're sad for the same reason you were so sad Wednesday morning after the 2016 Election. You're sad because the results confirm that half of the electorate – a group that includes family, neighbors, friends, random fellow citizens – looked at the last two years and declared this is pretty much what they want. You're sad because any Republican getting more than 1 vote in this election, let alone a majority of votes, forces us to recognize that a lot of this country is A-OK with undisguised white supremacy. You're sad because once again you have been slapped across the face with the reality that a lot of Americans are, at their core, a lost cause. Willfully ignorant. Unpersuadable. Terrible people. Assholes, even.

You were hoping that the whole country would somehow restore your faith in humanity and basic common decency by making a bold statement, trashing Republicans everywhere and across the board. You wanted some indication that if you campaigned hard enough, rednecks and white collar bloodless types alike could be made to see the light that perhaps the levers of power are not best entrusted to the absolute worst people that can be dredged up from Internet comment sections running on platforms of xenophobia, nihilism, and racism. In short, you wanted to see some evidence that corruption, venality, bigotry, and proud ignorance are deal-breakers for the vast majority of Americans.

Remember this feeling. Remember it every time someone tells you that the key to moving forward is to reach across the aisle, show the fine art of decorum in practice, and chat with right-wingers to find out what makes them tick. Remember the nagging sadness you feel looking at these almost entirely positive results; it will be your reminder that the only way to beat this thing is to outwork, outfight, and out-organize these people. They are not going to be won over and they will continue to prove that to you every chance they get.

Cyrano4747 posted:

The problem is that if you accept that viewpoint we’re at an impasse where half of the people in this country are irredeemable and there is no way to negotiate with them. What’s the end game for that? Civil War 2: this time with tanks and nukes?

Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc are huge problems and remain so. They will be for generations moving forward. That doesn’t mean you disengage and say “gently caress those other people” and write them off. You’ll never reach some but it is possible to change hearts and minds. This is a long process but one that we can see in action. poo poo is hosed in a lot of ways, but in 2018 we’re still in a better place with these issues than we were in 1968. Hopefully we will be in a much better place by 2068.

One of the things that bothers be the most about our current politics is how any thing that isn’t vitriol seems to be a council of despair.

Cyrano4747 posted:

The problem is that if you accept that viewpoint we’re at an impasse where half of the people in this country are irredeemable and there is no way to negotiate with them. What’s the end game for that? Civil War 2: this time with tanks and nukes?

Cyrano4747 posted:

The problem is that if you accept that viewpoint we’re at an impasse where half of the people in this country are irredeemable and there is no way to negotiate with them. What’s the end game for that? Civil War 2: this time with tanks and nukes?

Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc are huge problems and remain so. They will be for generations moving forward. That doesn’t mean you disengage and say “gently caress those other people” and write them off. You’ll never reach some but it is possible to change hearts and minds. This is a long process but one that we can see in action. poo poo is hosed in a lot of ways, but in 2018 we’re still in a better place with these issues than we were in 1968. Hopefully we will be in a much better place by 2068.

One of the things that bothers be the most about our current politics is how any thing that isn’t vitriol seems to be a council of despair.

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Generational change. There's no more important political battleground in the country than schools and colleges.

HEY GUNS posted:

i know you're largely culturally religious rather than practicing but there's a lot of stuff about how not to flip the gently caress out in orthodox and catholic writings

Cyrano4747 posted:

Yeah there’s a bunch of that stuff that I appreciated a lot more about 20 years after I had my closest interactions with it. More recently I’ve become really interested in the moral and philosophical arguments presented, although the theology still falls a touch flat.

HEY GUNS posted:

where do you stand on icons and ridiculous hats

shame on an IGA posted:

Cyrano it's good to see you in here and I'm gonna prescribe 10cc's of Bonhoeffer for what's ailing you

Cythereal posted:

Civil War 2 is no solution, because the first one proved that you can't shoot belief structures dead, or burn down ways of thinking. Yet my entire adult life, all the politics I have seen have been characterized by one party being willing to act in good faith and cooperate, and the other not. A narcissistic, sociopathic tyrant and rapist whose greatest enemy is his own incompetence was elected president, and recently an unhinged drunkard and rapist was elevated to the highest court of the land. Neo-Nazis march in the streets and the media chases ratings instead of the truth. Modern speed and accessibility of information has not liberated after all but created bubbles of radically different views of reality - believe what I say and not what you see, the president has said. The most visible representatives of Christ in the United States are corrupt, venal institutions that enshrine bigotry and greed as holy virtues.

I do not believe violence is the solution, but I do see the emotional appeal of catharsis and empowerment. It's why I feel sympathy and pity for our domestic terrorists rather than hatred or fear, they're victims of the same environment and cultivated forces that frustrate and bewilder me.

All I feel when I think about the state of the world is a suffocating and at times dangerously intoxicating cocktail of despair, rage, and fear. And I recognize this danger. I grew up on the Bible and Star Trek as my moral guides handed down from my parents, that honesty is the highest virtue and that we can and will make the world a better place. I find that message very difficult to hold on to these days.

Contrary to Hey Guns' interpretation of me, I think democracy is working fine. It's what people seem to want that scares and frustrates me.


And all of this doesn't even touch on what really scares me about the country and the world at the moment, though they do hobble any potential effort to do anything about those things.

http://i.imgur.com/gqA8eie.mp4

Abraham Lincoln, Second Inagural posted:

Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding.

Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged.

The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes.

"Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh."

If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him?

Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said: "The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

asio posted:

If politics is affecting you this badly I suggest reading your bible and watching star trek again. Everything is in the hands of God. It's up to you how much you want to trust Him. Political revolution is a jolly bit of fun, but the revolution worth being part of is the one that happens in people's hearts, and that requires God to decide whether to take action. Solomon with all his wisdom was corrupted by his wealth and made arms deals with Egypt - don't put your faith in political solutions. When the people of God were exiled to Babylon the prophet Jeremiah (29:4-14) had to calm them down and explain that: all things come from God; make the most of what you've got; home wasn't your true home anyway; be patient and faithful. As a Christian, politics is worth being informed about and act on, but not concerned by. God is the one who decides whether he wants to make our part of the world a better place. And anyway, the victory has already been won; the stone has been rolled away. In the age of internet political revolution the Christian response is not very sexy but it's a whole lot better for mental fitness.

Cythereal posted:

Yep, Florida. We elected one of Trump's favored minions, and while some of the amendments that passed were very good, like restoring voting rights to felons, others were very bad, catering to the rich old bastards who let the rest of Florida rot because hey, they already paid for schools and infrastructure back home and now that they're retired why should they pay taxes for that poo poo?

https://i.imgur.com/4h9KdqE.mp4

GreyjoyBastard posted:

white hamster: Catholicism

other hamster: Protestantism

HEY GUNS posted:

i know you're largely culturally religious rather than practicing but there's a lot of stuff about how not to flip the gently caress out in orthodox and catholic writings

twerking on the railroad posted:

Yes I would like Catholic examples of this please

HEY GUNS posted:

i know you're largely culturally religious rather than practicing but there's a lot of stuff about how not to flip the gently caress out in orthodox and catholic writings

twerking on the railroad posted:

Yes I would like Catholic examples of this please

ThePopeOfFun posted:

I’d like the Orthodox ones so I can talk to my Ortho friends. They’re always trying to convert us with podcasts.

Tias posted:

The best way to God is the hobos on the bench outside