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Trabisnikof posted:That’s fair, I was assuming we were using the wider definition of “leftist” that is broadened to mean “left of center.” There is no strict definition of leftist. Left or right is simply the team we are on. Their boundaries are defined on the fly based on circumstance and necessity as much as ideals. In the future their meaning will be different. Who is or isn't on the team is more a matter of convenience than anything else.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:46
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Everyone should have a gun but there should only be one bullet and you have to solve a bunch of riddles to get at it.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:47
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Terror Sweat posted:It’s a good thing everyone likes Bernie and he will get the vote out The Democratic primary is going to probably be a trash fire and even more bitter than 2016. We will see. That said, the stakes are clear, the Democrats need the full monty and the willingness to use it like Republicans or the country is completely hosed. I am doubtful.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:47
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Terror Sweat posted:Worked in Vietnam, and looks like it’s working in Afghanistan too Both of those had a whole lot more than just some guys with Bushmaster AR-15s.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:47
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Condiv posted:cuddling up to big banks isn't helping them If you live in the rust belt, just learn how to be a programmer --hillary clinton, essentially (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 7, 2018 23:47
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CubanMissile posted:So that we can take out jets and tanks and drones with our small arms fire when the war comes? Generally insurgents like to attack where the jets and tanks aren't.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:47
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The Glumslinger posted:I posted a big write up in State and Local thread, I'll cross post it This is way (way) too early to handicap. But just for fun, if the presidential election was today and we got a D+8 (ie identical to yesterday) result split along similar lines and with similar quality challengers, the Dems would lose AL, pick up CO, probably ME/IA (because the Dems will be all over the state), possibly NC and an outside chance at SC if Graham isn't in the seat. You also left out AZ, which would absolutely have gone blue in a Presidential year with higher turnout.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:47
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:It sucks to say out loud, but i fear it is true. Gun laws need to be kept off the national stage, and let them be state issues. The answer to every gun legislation question from national dems should be "that's a states rights issue, and we have no interest in national gun legislation." Yeah, we need to abandon the thing with 97% support according to polls, and the thing that has motivated a gigantic number of youth voters, because you really like the idea of playing revolutionary and want to pretend you're going to fight off a tank. Fulchrum fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Nov 7, 2018 |
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Nov 7, 2018 23:48
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sean10mm posted:Nah. I'm all for pushing Good Dems everywhere and not garbagemen, but you have to be realistic that if you're going to stick to your principles then some places will not be winnable in the short term. A depressing amount of rural american voters are not compatible with candidates that believe that black people are human beings. That's just an objective fact. it's not going to be quick wins for very obvious reasons, namely that the dems have left these areas to fester and left them to republicans unchallenged for a good deal of time. we've let our base atrophy in these areas (or even encouraged them to move away!), so we have to build from scratch again as for rural americans being insurmountably racist, i have bad news about the rest of america sean10mm even blue strongholds like chicago have trouble with the concept that black people are human beings
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Nov 7, 2018 23:49
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quote="Kale" post="489634910"] I know how it was the highest profile race of the midterms but I honestly cant believe how hung up people are on this one. If anything I thought it would be gillum or AOC for obvious reasons. I guess its the hot button topic on twitter and so it shall he here as well. Youd think the guy actually won the race the way he trended 3 to 1 on twitter versus Cruz last night though [/quote] AOC was guaranteed to win from the primary - the primary was the real election and the general was a formality. Gillum hurt because it seemed like he would win. He was unarguably the better candidate and DeSantis is a snakeperson. There was a lot of rigging and vote suppression and registry fuckery, but 4 million voted for that thing. Gort posted:Why the gently caress fire Sessions today? Why not do it six months ago instead of waiting until you've lost the house? Trump didn't think he would lose the House.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:49
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Fulchrum posted:Yeah, we need to abandon the thing with 97% support according to polls, and the thing that has motivated a gigantic number of youth voters, because you really loving like the idea of playing revolutionary. Or playing the Road Warrior, fightin' for gas when society collapses.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:49
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Yeah I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Fulchrum, gun control is a serious issue, we live in a country where school shootings are weekly and gun violence is daily for marginalized people, and gun organizations like the NRA are right-wing propaganda machines. Democrats can't abandon the issue. I wish the Dems would buck up and start going for handgun bans instead letting themselves get trapped into the "assault weapons" argument every time tho.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:50
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Hellblazer187 posted:If and when society collapses, a firearm would be a useful thing to have. No, regular people are not going to beat the army but I really don't trust that anything resembling regular order will be part of our experience in say 2040. this is your depression talking btw, american society isn't collapsing by 2040 at worst, although the worst case is annoyingly likely, what we're gonna get is something like the English managed decline where they've successfully hosed themselves into irrelevance
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Nov 7, 2018 23:51
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gun control is far more popular than most people think it is.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:51
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Lightning Knight posted:Yeah I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Fulchrum, gun control is a serious issue, we live in a country where school shootings are weekly and gun violence is daily for marginalized people, and gun organizations like the NRA are right-wing propaganda machines. Democrats can't abandon the issue. Framing the issues against handguns is tougher because you have a ton of people who buy into the whole “useful for self defense” angle. It’s easy to convince them that people shouldn’t own a military grade rifle but shouldn’t granny get to keep her little side piece in her purse when she has to walk through the rough neighborhood?
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Nov 7, 2018 23:52
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Adar posted:this is your depression talking btw, american society isn't collapsing by 2040 don't you think we're already starting down that road?
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Nov 7, 2018 23:52
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Adar posted:this is your depression talking btw, american society isn't collapsing by 2040 I wouldn't be so confident declaring this considering most of the East Coast will be underwater by 2040 my dude.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:53
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Fulchrum posted:Yeah, we need to abandon the thing with 97% support according to polls, and the thing that has motivated a gigantic number of youth voters, because you really loving like the idea of playing revolutionary. Like, wasn't the footnotes from last night that NRA sponsored candidates took a bigger hit than ever? Didn't Rick Scott owe a lot of his success to actually breaking from Trump on gun control after Parkland? I haven't paid enough close attention to be able to say definitively but haven't we seen a lot of small bits of evidence since then that this issue is actually working?
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Nov 7, 2018 23:53
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Fulchrum I don't think this is factually correct. According to Gallup, 60% support stricter gun laws, while 70% support Medicare for all. Still, the point is taken that it's hard to drop a policy that polls at 60%.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:53
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Lightning Knight posted:Yeah I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Fulchrum, gun control is a serious issue, we live in a country where school shootings are weekly and gun violence is daily for marginalized people, and gun organizations like the NRA are right-wing propaganda machines. Democrats can't abandon the issue. You have a point, but it is going to come at a cost and the question is how you knit together a coalition that isn't just a majority (which the Democrats have) of the population but enough to dismantle the structure the GOP has build (which is very much intact with some losses). It is a catch 22.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:54
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Framing the issues against handguns is tougher because you have a ton of people who buy into the whole “useful for self defense” angle. It’s easy to convince them that people shouldn’t own a military grade rifle but shouldn’t granny get to keep her little side piece in her purse when she has to walk through the rough neighborhood? While true in a rhetorical sense, handguns are by far the source of most of the actual gun violence in America.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:54
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Paracaidas posted:Any dem who proposed to "Fight for an incremental increase to $11 in 2021" or "Fight for an incremental increase to $12 in 2023" would be laughed out of the conversation as a filthy centrist. In 2020, the NY minimum wage is going to be $12.50, the CA minimum wage is going to be $12, and the MA minimum wage is going to be $12.75. I used 2020 because that's the latest year for which minimum wage data is available for NY; increases beyond that will be at the discretion of state officials. Compared to the way blue states have been foot-dragging, $11 by 2021 isn't too shabby - especially since cost of living and median wages are far lower in those rural states. Pollyanna posted:The problem is that GOP voters who approved of the minimum wage act viewed it as “more money for me”, an inherently Republican belief. They probably would have reconsidered if they were reminded that minorities would also get more money. Expect a “poo poo wages for browns” act to show up in the next 4~6 years when they realize it. This is a weird take on it. Isn't providing more money for a vast majority of voters in a state a good thing? If a policy benefits poor whites and poor blacks, isn't that just about the best kind of policy to have? I don't see why a good law has to be discounted because, horror of horrors, most of the voters thought it would personally benefit them.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:55
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Adar posted:this is your depression talking btw, american society isn't collapsing by 2040 Donald Trump is president and we aren't doing poo poo about global warming. I'm not saying society will collapse, but I think it's foolish to be certain it won't.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:55
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Lightning Knight posted:While true in a rhetorical sense, handguns are by far the source of most of the actual gun violence in America. Oh I totally understand that.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:55
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We won the popular vote by 7 percent last night. Would it be enough to win the electoral college?
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Nov 7, 2018 23:56
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I can’t wait for Kempto Anti-Gay the entire film industry out of Atlanta https://politics.myajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/breaking-kemp-declares-victory-georgia-governor-race/9yLoEscqbUFOZEDL57FbxO/
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Nov 7, 2018 23:56
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LK and/or PPJ can we please get the "dems bad" hellthread ghetto back so this one becomes readable thanks in advance (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 7, 2018 23:56
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 XyrlocShammypants posted:So Tom McArthur is also going to lose. The guy who revived ACA repeal and famously got yelled at at the town hall. I think of that angry dad who yelled at him: quote:Yeah, it's got problems, but it's also got elections
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Nov 7, 2018 23:56
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Ardennes posted:You have a point, but it is going to come at a cost and the question is how you knit together a coalition that isn't just a majority (which the Democrats have) of the population but enough to dismantle the structure the GOP has build (which is very much intact with some losses). That's true, but this isn't some academic thing. Like gun violence is a real, material issue to thousands of Americans every year and disproportionately affects low income people and especially people of color. If anything the excessive focus on mass shootings (i.e. gun violence that affects whiter, more affluent Americans) has obscured this reality (not that there should be mass shootings or that we shouldn't get rid of assault rifles). What I'm saying is gently caress it, repeal the Second Amendment you cowards.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:56
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Pollyanna posted:The problem is that GOP voters who approved of the minimum wage act viewed it as “more money for me”, an inherently Republican belief. They probably would have reconsidered if they were reminded that minorities would also get more money. Expect a “poo poo wages for browns” act to show up in the next 4~6 years when they realize it. I completely disagree that this is the problem. I believe that McCaskill saying things like this  and this  turn off reasonable people. I, for example, would have waltzed into my polling place in Mizzou if I lived there and I would have voted to raise the minimum wage and I would have not voted for senator. Egg Moron fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Nov 7, 2018 |
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Nov 7, 2018 23:57
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Hellblazer187 posted:Fulchrum I don't think this is factually correct. According to Gallup, 60% support stricter gun laws, while 70% support Medicare for all. Also it's another one of those things in the category of "Maybe if we sell out our principles on this issue the lovely whites will like us again!" that never works IRL because the Republicans always promise more and they'll never believe the Democrats anyway.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:57
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WoodrowSkillson posted:We are not taking the Senate in 2020. That is simply not a valid avenue to plan for now. Can we win it by 2022? Maybe. 2024? sure. We are not shoving M4A down the throats of of the GOP led Senate. So unless you have a really good explanation on how a complete overhaul of the healthcare system will be passed, I do not think M4A is a valid disqualifier for President in 2020. You know what would be the quickest way to a Dem-led Senate? Dem candidates coming out forcefully for a policy supported by up to 60 percent of Republican voters and up to 85 percent of Dem voters. I don't understand the mental contortions required for "Let's just not support something that 75 percent of all voters want until we elect a supermajority of Dems opposed to that incredibly popular policy." I mean, I get their ulterior motive is donor-funded campaigns rather than their "pragmatism," but I still consider it counterintuitive and unlikely that incrementalism regarding healthcare while 40 percent of Americans can't afford to seek medical care even when they have insurance will lead to any sort of resounding wins for elected Dems.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:57
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Lightning Knight posted:I wouldn't be so confident declaring this considering most of the East Coast will be underwater by 2040 my dude. you keep stating this as a fact depending on your definition of "east coast" and "underwater", it ranges from "lolno barring sudden wackiness" to "maybe, with flexible definitions that call 'significantly increased flood risk' 'underwater'"
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Nov 7, 2018 23:57
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https://twitter.com/justthisguy/status/1060277263248359429
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Nov 7, 2018 23:58
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Hellblazer187 posted:Fulchrum I don't think this is factually correct. According to Gallup, 60% support stricter gun laws, while 70% support Medicare for all. 97% support universal background checks, which WILL be counted as stricter gun laws by the rural voters in question.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:58
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So how can Dems appeal to rural voters on guns without abandoning gun control? Magazine limits but free hunting rifles for anyone in the countryside?
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Nov 7, 2018 23:58
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Squalid posted:There is no strict definition of leftist. Left or right is simply the team we are on. Their boundaries are defined on the fly based on circumstance and necessity as much as ideals. In the future their meaning will be different. Who is or isn't on the team is more a matter of convenience than anything else. This is wildly politically illiterate. You are suggesting liberals and leftists are on the same team despite holding mutually exclusive ideology. We may be forced into the same party because of a dysfunctional political system but that is where similarities end. Left wing politics do have a definition and they ard not liberal politics. The only way you can ever call them "left" is relative to the fascist GOP and that is not exactly a high bar
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Nov 7, 2018 23:58
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STAC Goat posted:Like, wasn't the footnotes from last night that NRA sponsored candidates took a bigger hit than ever? Didn't Rick Scott owe a lot of his success to actually breaking from Trump on gun control after Parkland? I haven't paid enough close attention to be able to say definitively but haven't we seen a lot of small bits of evidence since then that this issue is actually working? I wouldn't undervalue the image of guns either. The undeniable truth is that the way Americans treat guns is ten times worse than what they have access to. If all these shootings are turning off people from owning guns as toys then it is a pretty big success. Unfortunately the caveat is that the people who are attracted to the big guns are the same people that go shooting people, hence the need for actual bans. Hopefully that was sadbrains enough that I dont get probed again.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:59
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Lightning Knight posted:Yeah I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with Fulchrum, gun control is a serious issue, we live in a country where school shootings are weekly and gun violence is daily for marginalized people, and gun organizations like the NRA are right-wing propaganda machines. Democrats can't abandon the issue. I agree. Handgun control would save a lot more lives. Also just establishing an electronic tracking system for gun sales and crime to figure out which stores are selling the guns used in crimes would be a gigantic step in the right direction. IIRC most studies indicate that a select few sellers are the source for a disproportionate number of guns used in crime, likely because they look the other way at straw purchases.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:59
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This isn't even remotely illegal, in fact it's Georgia law.
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Nov 7, 2018 23:59
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