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Cool we're already back in "freedom fighter" territory
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Nov 5, 2018 19:56
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Azran posted:While I disagree with a few friends who insist that fascim and democracy are one and the same, extreme right-wing poo poo being on the rise all over the world kinda makes me wonder if I'm the one on the wrong here. More so fascism and megacorps, but we DO democratically allow megacorps to exist, so kinda sorta if you squint. Or, you could point to the fact that the liberals of Weimar Germany found more in common with Hitler than the socialists.
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Nov 6, 2018 23:53
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The Dipshit posted:More so fascism and megacorps, but we DO democratically allow megacorps to exist, so kinda sorta if you squint. Correction: the people who actively wished to repeal liberal democracy to get a king/emperor back found more in common with Hitler than with the socialists. The liberals stuck with the socialists. And the communists were ordered to not work with the socialists in a unified way until it was far too late (thanks Josef!).
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Nov 7, 2018 00:06
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fishmech posted:Correction: the people who actively wished to repeal liberal democracy to get a king/emperor back found more in common with Hitler than with the socialists. The liberals stuck with the socialists. And the communists were ordered to not work with the socialists in a unified way until it was far too late (thanks Josef!). Hmm, yeah. banning May Day demonstrations in 1928, killing 32 communists on May Day 1929, and then rejecting the KPD's call for a general strike in response to the Preußenschlag: sticking with the socialists. Anyways, this is the Latin America thread.
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Nov 7, 2018 01:34
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joepinetree posted:Hmm, yeah. banning May Day demonstrations in 1928, killing 32 communists on May Day 1929, and then rejecting the KPD's call for a general strike in response to the Preußenschlag: sticking with the socialists. I'll remind you that the "only KPD is socialist" shtick literally got the KPD killed. Please stop carrying Stalin's propaganda line that the SPD had no socialists in it, the man's been dead 65 years and even he'd dropped it quite a while beforehand. You can feel free to complain about socialists killing other socialists, but the vast majority of the liberals were in parties that also contained a large amount of socialists, which were also parties that never joined up with the Nazis.
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Nov 7, 2018 01:48
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fishmech posted:I'll remind you that the "only KPD is socialist" shtick literally got the KPD killed. Please stop carrying Stalin's propaganda line that the SPD had no socialists in it, the man's been dead 65 years and even he'd dropped it quite a while beforehand. Let me get this straight: to support your argument that "liberals stuck with the socialists" you are trying to claim that it was the "socialist" side of the SPD that banned May Day demonstrations and then shot and killed KPD members in 1929, and that the equivalent to liberals within the SPD "stuck with the socialists" by siding with the SPD socialists who were killing the KPD socialists, but were otherwise uninvolved in killing KPD socialists? Please, take this garbage elsewhere.
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Nov 7, 2018 02:41
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joepinetree posted:Let me get this straight: to support your argument that "liberals stuck with the socialists" you are trying to claim that it was the "socialist" side of the SPD that banned May Day demonstrations and then shot and killed KPD members in 1929, and that the equivalent to liberals within the SPD "stuck with the socialists" by siding with the SPD socialists who were killing the KPD socialists, but were otherwise uninvolved in killing KPD socialists? Look do you want to claim the liberals sided with Hitler, in which case we're saying the SPD must have been all socialist as none of them sided with Hitler - or do you want to admit the vast majority of the liberals didn't think joining up with Hitler was a good idea and that whole bogus line about social fascism is garbage Stalinism? Either way, the SPD was still a socialist party in the time period of course. Additionally though, Germany from WWI on had a pretty consistent record of socialists killing other socialists over who the right kind of socialists were. That's simple history. Not even sure what you were trying to say by the last couple of clauses there.
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Nov 7, 2018 03:32
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I'm going to drop a cartoonish anvil on you fishmech
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Nov 7, 2018 03:57
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fishmech posted:Look do you want to claim the liberals sided with Hitler, in which case we're saying the SPD must have been all socialist as none of them sided with Hitler - or do you want to admit the vast majority of the liberals didn't think joining up with Hitler was a good idea and that whole bogus line about social fascism is garbage Stalinism? Either way, the SPD was still a socialist party in the time period of course. No, I am saying that "liberals stuck with socialists" is a dumb thing to say, especially in the Latin American politics thread.
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Nov 7, 2018 04:50
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joepinetree posted:No, I am saying that "liberals stuck with socialists" is a dumb thing to say, especially in the Latin American politics thread. But they did stick with the socialists instead of the fascists. Instead of the claim here: The Dipshit posted:
See this? See how it's wrong? That was posted in this very thread 4 hours ago.
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Nov 7, 2018 05:54
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Why the gently caress are you talking about the Weimar Republic in a thread about MODERN LATIN AMERICA?!? There are no sensible correlations to be made, seriously.
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Nov 7, 2018 11:30
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Maybe Germany was located in Latin America back then. You know...continental drift.
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Nov 7, 2018 13:17
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Negrostrike posted:Maybe Germany was located in Latin America back then. You know...continental drift.
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Nov 7, 2018 15:46
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Relax, it's just because Hitler and his cronies fled to Argentina at the end of the war
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Nov 7, 2018 17:40
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/mexico-cannabis-marijuana-legalization-legalise-medical-recreational-law-weed-a8622986.htmlquote:A Mexico senator has introduced a bill that would legalise recreational marijuana. Mexico goons, how likely is this to pass? Also after the Supreme Court decriminalized possession, how much difference does this bill actually make?
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Nov 8, 2018 20:56
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Is "interior interior minister" a real position, or is that just a typo?
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Nov 8, 2018 20:57
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Cicero posted:Is "interior interior minister" a real position, or is that just a typo? Typo Squalid posted:https://www.independent.co.uk/news/mexico-cannabis-marijuana-legalization-legalise-medical-recreational-law-weed-a8622986.html AMLO and his party have absolute control on both Chambers (Senators and Deputies) so there's no real obstacle for the bill to pass if they really want to move forward with it.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:06
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Typo I don't know much about Mexican politics, how unified are the parties? Are they like European parliamentary parties that are centralized, with the leader exerting a lot of control over individual representatives, or is it more like Brazil and the United States where parties represent broad and contradictory interests and individual Senators and Deputies have wide latitude to buck the party leadership?
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Nov 8, 2018 21:20
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fishmech posted:But they did stick with the socialists instead of the fascists. Instead of the claim here: Huh? You are really arguing the social democrats who sided with the Empire at the start of the war, backtracking on their promise to fight against any war, then, after communists in the Navy agitated and forced the Kaiser to abdicate, they stopped the revolution and armed and supported the Freikorps to murder Rosa and the one guy who actually spoke against the war from the parliament, those guys, that the communists were dumb not to trust them? They murdered two of the best socialists Germany has produced, as well as executing those who tried to overthrow capitalism instead of maintaining it, as the social democrats did! Their support of the Freikorps was the basis for the rise of fascism. It is relevant to Latin American politics, because Nazis fled to South America after the war and have probably influenced politics. EDIT: I'll admit that paragraph can be kind of hard to parse, but the fact is people are saying the communists should have worked with the socialists in Germany, and the socialists worked with proto-fascists to kill communists, and did nothing to bring about the collapse of capitalism. If any country's communists have earned the right to not work with social democrats, it's Germany's. Ardent Communist fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Nov 8, 2018 |
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Nov 8, 2018 21:33
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Squalid posted:I don't know much about Mexican politics, how unified are the parties? Are they like European parliamentary parties that are centralized, with the leader exerting a lot of control over individual representatives, or is it more like Brazil and the United States where parties represent broad and contradictory interests and individual Senators and Deputies have wide latitude to buck the party leadership? Regular political parties are just like the ones in Brazil or the US, however, AMLO's party is one that lives and thrives precisely by AMLO's influence. Without him, Morena would crumble faster than a castle of cards. But at the same time, that is the only thing its members have in common. The party is comprised by people who have stood with AMLO since he was mayor of Mexico City, people from every other party in the country jumping on AMLO's bandwagon as a mean to secure a paycheck and opportunists he picked on the way. That said, this is the first time Morena has been a major political force in the country so is up in the air if they will stand by themselves or simply follow whatever AMLO's tells them to do.
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Nov 8, 2018 21:42
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Ardent Communist posted:I'll admit that paragraph can be kind of hard to parse, but the fact is people are saying the communists should have worked with the socialists in Germany, and the socialists worked with proto-fascists to kill communists, and did nothing to bring about the collapse of capitalism. If any country's communists have earned the right to not work with social democrats, it's Germany's. Massively conflating the situations of 1918, 1923 and 1932 was one of Hitler's preferred tactics for promoting fascism; you shouldn't be doing it yourself. The "SPD" of the war and Civil War/early Republic period also still contained a lot of people who had moved on out to other parties in a big way by the time. Quick quiz: which party that wasn't the KPD refused to work with the Nazis the whole way through from Hitler becoming a serious figure in the late 20s to past the enabling act (which every other party but it and the KPD signed on to in order to maintain vain hopes of power)? Squalid posted:I don't know much about Mexican politics, how unified are the parties? Are they like European parliamentary parties that are centralized, with the leader exerting a lot of control over individual representatives, or is it more like Brazil and the United States where parties represent broad and contradictory interests and individual Senators and Deputies have wide latitude to buck the party leadership? Of note for this: what won the legislative houses is the "Juntos Haremos Historia", an official coalition of the Movimiento Regeneración Nacional which is AMLO's actual party, the Partido del Trabajo (a somewhat minor leftist party) and the Partido Encuentro Social which was a right wing party with a heavily Evangelical Christian bend to it. Partido Encuentro Social did not meet legal minimums to stay a party in the results of the election, and the members have mostly joined into AMLO's own party afterwards. Without PT support, MORENA would hold a majority in the Chamber of Deputies by 35 seats, but would be 1 seat short of a majority in the Senate. Thus PT agreement is vital to maintaining control though they have not shown signs of being seriously displeased in coalition. But you can see how a formal coalition that held both a far left party and originally an evangelical solidly right wing party at once in conjunction with MORENA's own grab-bag of politicians and political views relies so heavily on a leader figure to bind them together.
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Nov 9, 2018 07:34
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This is a thread about Latin America politics, there are other places for bottom tier discussions of the Weimar Republic.
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Nov 9, 2018 12:34
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Oh poo poo, when did Ardennes become a mod?
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Nov 9, 2018 13:45
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I've got a Brazilian friend of mine at my engineering program and the poor bastard is basically exiling himself just to escape Bolsanaro. His very happy about his vague ability to get Italian citizenship now, says everything about Brazil, Italy is now better than Brazil.
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Nov 9, 2018 13:56
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Italy has cute chicks and good food, unfortunately I'm "pelo duro" and ain't got a drop of Italian blood in me.
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Nov 9, 2018 13:59
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Cicero posted:Oh poo poo, when did Ardennes become a mod? Very recently, but yeah, I am going to mostly hands off. The Weimar derail was obviously just going nowhere in a thread where there is much bigger fish to fry.
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Nov 9, 2018 14:00
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RagnarokZ posted:I've got a Brazilian friend of mine at my engineering program and the poor bastard is basically exiling himself just to escape Bolsanaro. Italian citizenship just gets you into a better EU country. Leaving Latin America just to go to Italy is kinda stupid when there's so many cool EU countries your new shiny passport will open up for you But yeah leaving Latin America for Europe was the best choice in my life. I miss my family and friends, but everything about my life has improved by a ridiculous measure
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Nov 9, 2018 14:28
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Pochoclo posted:Italian citizenship just gets you into a better EU country. Leaving Latin America just to go to Italy is kinda stupid when there's so many cool EU countries your new shiny passport will open up for you I could get italian citizenship, but my grandmother lost her birth certificate and we can't find the right public registry to get another copy. It's basically stalled everything. Even then, I'm not sure I could emigrate for good. I'm currently studying away from Brazil and I miss people there loving fiercely (it doesn't help that I'm in Buenos Aires. I admire and like the people here for many reasons, but the worst form of loneliness can be the company of an argentinian). Besides, with my luck whatever european country I ended up in would elect their own Bolsonaro the moment I rented a place there.
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Nov 9, 2018 14:51
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The guy next to me at work is Brazilian and has an Italian passport, I hope he's not pro Bolso.
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Nov 9, 2018 21:43
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Sephyr posted:the worst form of loneliness can be the company of an argentinian eeeeeeeeeeeee recatate gato te via quemar el rancho guachin lmao though 100% agree as an argentinian
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Nov 9, 2018 21:46
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Pochoclo posted:eeeeeeeeeeeee recatate gato te via quemar el rancho guachin It's not really a flaw. It's just weird chemistry with brazilians that are gregarious to a psychotic level and feel hurt when their waiter doesn't show them pics of his family on his cell phone before even taking your order.
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Nov 10, 2018 00:35
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Sephyr posted:It's not really a flaw. It's just weird chemistry with brazilians that are gregarious to a psychotic level and feel hurt when their waiter doesn't show them pics of his family on his cell phone before even taking your order. That sounds like a nightmare honestly. Argentinian work culture was already too touchy-feely for my taste - I am much more comfortable with the brits here. Strangely enough though, I've found waiters in London to be much more polite and personable than those in Buenos Aires, while keeping just the right amount of distance. Well, I guess the polite part isn't really surprising Pochoclo fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Nov 10, 2018 |
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Nov 10, 2018 00:54
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Right now, Morena's Senators and Representatives have been sending the Mexican Market into [free fall twice over their sudden decision to remove the commissions charged by banks to its users. Now, while that is definitely something it needed to be addressed (the commissions charged in Mexico are higher than most countries), deciding to remove them altogether so suddenly isn't how this should be done. Some analysts already think things won't get better anytime soon, between the global climate and the growing uncertainty that AMLO's administration is creating with their actions. Meanwhile, Morena's leader made the bold claim earlier today that Trump had confirmed assistance to AMLO's take of power just for AMLO's spokesperson to deny this shortly afterwards. https://twitter.com/anafvega/status/1062425695018729478?s=19 Yeah, this is certainly a great way to kickstart the new administration. For what is worth, AMLO at least has said he will make another consultation about the "Tren Maya". Not that it will mean anything since the decision is already taken but hey, at least is trying to be coherent with his actions.
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Nov 13, 2018 23:14
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Remember how one of AMLO's campaign promises was to remove the army from the streets? Well, this Tuesday Morena will present a proposal to modify the Constitution to give the newly announced National Guard complete and permanent faculties to patrol the streets, stop felonies and even arrest people. https://www.animalpolitico.com/2018/11/morena-reforma-ejercito-vigilar-calles-detener-civiles/
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Nov 15, 2018 20:02
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Spanish political structure was a mistake.
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Nov 15, 2018 20:11
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Remember how one of AMLO's campaign promises was to remove the army from the streets? I'm always legit worried when rulers give more power to the army.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:08
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Remember how one of AMLO's campaign promises was to remove the army from the streets? No, I don't. I remember that was something he was still contemplating back in may and the eventual decision, far back as August at the very least, to keep them out patrolling the streets while they formed a national guard to take over policing duties. Which is exactly what's happening. You know, you are going to have a heart attack before the sexenio is over if you insist on being such an angry, zealous derechairo.
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Nov 16, 2018 02:49
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Pochoclo posted:Italian citizenship just gets you into a better EU country. Leaving Latin America just to go to Italy is kinda stupid when there's so many cool EU countries your new shiny passport will open up for you His plan is to get an Italian citizenship and live EVERYWHERE ELSE in the EU.
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Nov 16, 2018 12:59
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I could get an Italian passport if I wanted (or a Lebanese one lol), but I like my country, in spite if all it's problems, and I'm not leaving just because a gang of psychopaths got the power gently caress them, they won't be there forever
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Nov 16, 2018 14:38
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Macri.
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Nov 16, 2018 15:00
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