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n0tqu1tesane posted:Do yourself a favor, and don't use zip ties. Having to cut and reapply whenever you want to pull a cable out is a pain in the rear, and wasteful. Spend a little extra money and get some velcro instead. I use these, they are excellent. They aren't scratchy or stiff like some of the older velcro wraps used to be. The hooks are very fine, and the loops are so small they don't collect hairballs or cobwebs.
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Nov 6, 2018 16:18
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Huh, I didn't even know you could get velcro that thin, I'm gonna steal the gently caress out of that idea. Nice.
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Nov 6, 2018 16:27
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n0tqu1tesane posted:Do yourself a favor, and don't use zip ties. Having to cut and reapply whenever you want to pull a cable out is a pain in the rear, and wasteful. Spend a little extra money and get some velcro instead. Haha ironically I already have those exact ties as well, I use them for keeping cables together, I was wondering if there were any other hideaway suggestions. 
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Nov 6, 2018 19:40
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Medullah posted:Haha ironically I already have those exact ties as well, I use them for keeping cables together, I was wondering if there were any other hideaway suggestions. One thing I like to do is bundle multiple cables together whenever possible, so you have a trunk coming off the back of the computer, and it splits off each device's cable as it gets to them. When 1 cable is longer than the others the slack gets taken up near the device, otherwise I leave them long. This lets me leave some extra length in the trunk that doesn't look too messy since it's just 1 thick bundle coiled on the floor behind my desk, and that slack lets me pull the case forward to get at the backside since it's in a cubby normally. I think it looks pretty good, but my desk is less than 12 inches away from the wall on all 3 sides, so I never really see the cables unless I'm rewiring something anyway.
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Nov 6, 2018 20:11
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Medullah posted:Haha ironically I already have those exact ties as well, I use them for keeping cables together, I was wondering if there were any other hideaway suggestions. Check out the various "cable management sleeve" and "cable management raceway" options on Amazon. The market has come a long way from the orange tube days of yore.
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Nov 6, 2018 20:35
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Javid posted:Less wiring and more electronics but I don't know of a more appropriate thread: Anything with a switch mode power supply should work, but it will reduce the life of the power supplies (your laptop is fine, a desktop PC should be fine, etc). Modern flat panel TVs (except maybe plasma) should work, but it's hard on the power supplies in those too. Resistive loads shouldn't give two shits (toaster, etc). It'll destroy a microwave in short order. CRT TVs hate it. Modified sine wave belongs in a battery backup for a PC that's only expected to be able to do a graceful shut down when the power goes out, not for anything running long-term. Incandescent lights and magnetic ballast fluorescents (really old fixtures) will also be fine (electronic ballast will probably fail to light), but probably dimmer. CFL and LED will be very unhappy long term. And yeah, those motors are going to die very early deaths. He needs to drop the coin on a good inverter setup.
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Nov 7, 2018 07:31
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Medullah posted:Yeah I was more just concerned that the wires were a problem and that's why it was taped up. I didn't even think about hardwiring, I'll pursue that. I had my eye on a combo smoke/carbon monoxide detector and that'd probably be a good thing to have. Thanks. Keep in mind ALL of the detectors have to match (at least in brand), otherwise you'll have weird rear end false alarms, since those are linked (well... were, that one looks like it wasn't even hooked up and probably only battery powered) (also, why not make them match anyway). I'm betting a home inspector caught old alarms, so he threw the cheapest poo poo he could get up there, and they're probably all battery powered. Since you have red, black, and white in there, your house was built when linked AC powered detectors were required. 99% of hardwired one will have provisions for linking (the red wire).
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Nov 7, 2018 09:45
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STR posted:Keep in mind ALL of the detectors have to match (at least in brand), otherwise you'll have weird rear end false alarms, since those are linked (well... were, that one looks like it wasn't even hooked up and probably only battery powered) (also, why not make them match anyway). Awesome, I'll look at the other ones in the house. This house was built in 1999 so it's quite a bit different than my old, much tinier 1941 house I moved from. The money I've spent in little poo poo so far...
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Nov 7, 2018 14:31
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I want to move/upgrade my main panel. Can I install the new panel where I want it and power it as if it were a subpanel temporarily (lets say off a dual position 50A breaker running off of 8/3 romex) until I get my outdoor conduit run in place?
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Nov 8, 2018 18:17
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When I have one hand on my macbook pro and one hand on an amplifier with a metal housing, each plugged into separate outlets, I get shocked. I also feel this when touching a keyboard with a metal housing that's plugged into a computer on the same outlet as the amp, so it's not a problem with the amplifier. This is real bad right? What is happening and how do I troubleshoot it before my house burns down, without killing myself with current across my chest? edit: Ah never mind, outlet tester says hot and neutral are reversed in one of the outlets. I suppose that'll do it. Erwin fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Nov 8, 2018 |
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Nov 8, 2018 21:55
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wait what. Even with a reversed polarity at the outlet, the chassis of any appliance should be grounded. And ground should only be bonded to neutral at the service entrance/main panel. If you have a bonded neutral at the appliance (in this case, your amp) and an outlet with reversed polarity I would expect it to short out immediately when you plugged it in and trip the breaker. If you've got a multimeter measure the impedance between the neutral and ground on your amplifier (unless you're using a non OEM Macbook cable/charger I would be willing to bet it is not the culprit). Are these two outlets on the same circuit? I wonder if they're out of phase. 30 TO 50 FERAL HOG fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Nov 8, 2018 |
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Nov 8, 2018 22:35
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The amplifier isn't grounded, it's one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Lepai-LP-2020TI-Instruments-TPA3118-Amplifier/dp/B071FJF4FF/ I first noticed the issue when touching the metal of my mechanical keyboard, which is connected to a PC connected to a UPS, connected to the properly-wired outlet. I felt a little tingle while also touching my macbook on the other outlet. I thought it was the macbook's charger since it was a bit frayed so I got a new one from Apple but still felt the same thing. Until now it was only a slight tingle from the keyboard, but when I reached over today to adjust the volume on the amp, I felt a much stronger tingle, to the point that it was a bit painful. I'm now guessing the slight tingle from the keyboard was coming through the audio cable, through the pc, and into the keyboard (and I'm lucky that nothing has been damaged). So does it make sense that the ungrounded amp on the good outlet would somehow cause me to feel current through the macbook on the bad outlet? Or is the flipped neutral/hot a red herring and the amp is just bad? Not sure if the outlets are on the same circuit, I'll check that now. edit: fixed link edit2: They are not on the same circuit. Erwin fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Nov 8, 2018 |
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Nov 8, 2018 23:33
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Your amplifier and MacBook are both DC. They both have a rectifier of some kind inside of their respective power bricks which means they basically don’t care about polarity. That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t fix the outlet, it just means that there’s something really weird going on here. lovely power supply would be my first guess (for the amplifier) Do you have a multimeter? That’s going to be the best way to find out what is energized. You can get a “decent” VC97 for like $30 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008GTEZPI/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Rcm5BbGW6S124 If you’re going to never use it again just get a $5 harbor freight meter 30 TO 50 FERAL HOG fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 8, 2018 23:59
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I do have a multimeter. What am I testing? Current from amp to MacBook (I didn't do that because I thought that might break something since I'm somewhat of a resistor)? Amp housing to ground? I wouldn't be surprised if the power supply someone in China packed with the amp is junk.
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Nov 9, 2018 00:18
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Erwin posted:I do have a multimeter. What am I testing? Current from amp to MacBook (I didn't do that because I thought that might break something since I'm somewhat of a resistor)? Amp housing to ground? There’s a few things I would check. With the amp connected to the power brick and the brick unplugged from the wall, measure the resistance of the amp housing to the two prongs. I would expect one to be a short and the other to have no reading. With the amp by itself I’d check the resistance of the housing to the outside of the barrel jack power connector (0 ohms or close to it) and to the pin of the barrel jack (should be no conductivity) You can also measure the voltage from the amp housing to ground to see if it is energized when plugged in. Again. It’s possible that the MacBook is the issue here but their engineering and QC is orders of magnitude above what you will find in cheap electronics made in China so I would rate it as being significantly less likely to be the cause. 30 TO 50 FERAL HOG fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 00:28
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Measure the AC voltage between the two surfaces you touch when you feel a shock for my entertainment.
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Nov 9, 2018 00:45
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shame on an IGA posted:Measure the AC voltage between the two surfaces you touch when you feel a shock for my entertainment. This reminds me... can this be explained? Reading 60VAC (also getting shocked by) touching a metal outdoor enclosure and a metal fish tape coiled up on the ground [grass and paving stones]. Inside the enlcosure has some 120vac breakers, as well as low voltage gate controls, data, and camera [12vdc] wiring.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:27
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I know grounded AC equipment with metal enclosures usually has the enclosure connected to ground so that a short to the case won't turn it into a bug zapper; but with those 2 pieces of ungrounded DC equipment both the cases should be completely isolated from the power, right? So there would need to be shorts in both for you to get a shock, unless the macbook's power cable has a ground conection between the power brick and the laptop.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:50
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The battery is dead in my multimeter and I don't have 9 volts laying around, so we won't know until tomorrow. I too am excited to find out the results.
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Nov 9, 2018 05:42
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Nevets posted:I know grounded AC equipment with metal enclosures usually has the enclosure connected to ground so that a short to the case won't turn it into a bug zapper; but with those 2 pieces of ungrounded DC equipment both the cases should be completely isolated from the power, right? So there would need to be shorts in both for you to get a shock, unless the macbook's power cable has a ground conection between the power brick and the laptop. The MacBook can be grounded depending on the charging cable being used. But yeah the DC power supplies are probably going to have a transformer of to get the voltage down (or up!) to what is needed. Full wave or half wave diode bridge gives you a dead simple rectifier that doesn’t give a drat about polarity and boom you’ve got DC. The amp power supply should be putting out 12v (probably closer to like 12.5 or maybe even a shade higher since the 2A load will cause the voltage to sag) and the MacBook should be putting out like 13.7 or something like that. So my thought is one of these power supplies has a poorly insulated transformer/short/who knows what. Apple’s chargers are incredibly well designed and while it’s certainly possible that it’s the culprit here my guess is going to be he $2 made in China wall wart.
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Nov 9, 2018 07:55
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Mystery intensifies. Amp - The amp has a 3-prong wall wart labeled "Vonage" so it is clearly not the correct match. Barrel jack on amp is labeled negative on the outside and positive on the pin, with no mention of ground. I assume that means it expects a 2 prong plug? - The wall wart is also labeled negative on the outside of the barrel plug and positive on the inside with no mention of ground. But the ground pin has connectivity to the outside of the barrel jack. Is that right? Or is it dumping 12v down ground all the time? - Amp housing to outside of barrel jack - 0 resistance. - Amp housing to barrel jack pin - some sort of connectivity. On the multimeter setting where it beeps for continuity, 1 is no continuity and housing to outside of barrel jack is 0. Middle pin reads around .550. I don't know what the scale is for that setting or what to make of that. - Amp housing to ground on wall wart - 0 resistance. - Amp housing to both prongs - no continuity. Macbook Pro - Charger is using the 3-prong cable attachment, and the outer pins of the MagSafe 2 adapter are ground, so the laptop case should be grounded. - After removing the amp altogether, I still get a tingle between the laptop and mechanical keyboard when the laptop is plugged into the hot/neutral swapped outlet and the keyboard is plugged into a computer on the correctly-wired outlet. Using the multimeter, I get a voltage reading momentarily when touching the two, then it zeroes out. Usually single digits but if I do it just right I get 110v (!). Only getting a few milliamps. So my guess is that this bad outlet is going to kill me if I don't stop using it and fix whatever the issue is. Is it that they're out of phase like BIGFOOT EROTICA mentioned (they are on separate breakers)? Maybe the amp isn't the problem, but allowed me to feel the problem more? I know the answer is probably get an electrician which I'm fine with, but I'm curious at this point, and if it's a case of just "rewire the outlet" I can do that.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:05
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Erwin posted:- The amp has a 3-prong wall wart labeled "Vonage" so it is clearly not the correct match. Yeah, but it doesn't have to be, as long as it's outputting 12 volts (or close to it) it'll run your amp. quote:Barrel jack on amp is labeled negative on the outside and positive on the pin, with no mention of ground. I assume that means it expects a 2 prong plug? Barrel jacks don't have a ground (usually), it's DC and the negative will be tied to the ground. quote:The wall wart is also labeled negative on the outside of the barrel plug and positive on the inside with no mention of ground. But the ground pin has connectivity to the outside of the barrel jack. Is that right? Or is it dumping 12v down ground all the time? That's completely normal. quote:- Amp housing to outside of barrel jack - 0 resistance. Good quote:- Amp housing to barrel jack pin - some sort of connectivity. On the multimeter setting where it beeps for continuity, 1 is no continuity and housing to outside of barrel jack is 0. Middle pin reads around .550. I don't know what the scale is for that setting or what to make of that. The amplifier is a load and loads have resistance. You're measuring the internal resistance of the circuitry (sorta). This seems fine, as long as it isn't a short. quote:- Amp housing to ground on wall wart - 0 resistance. Both of these are good. quote:- Charger is using the 3-prong cable attachment, and the outer pins of the MagSafe 2 adapter are ground, so the laptop case should be grounded. I've never actually tested the conductivity of my MacBook but it's anodized aluminum so it should be non-conductive. quote:- After removing the amp altogether, I still get a tingle between the laptop and mechanical keyboard when the laptop is plugged into the hot/neutral swapped outlet and the keyboard is plugged into a computer on the correctly-wired outlet. Using the multimeter, I get a voltage reading momentarily when touching the two, then it zeroes out. Usually single digits but if I do it just right I get 110v (!). Only getting a few milliamps. Your multimeter has an impedance of something like 1 million ohms. If that's enough to drain the charge almost instantly this has got to be some kind of capacitance issue. quote:So my guess is that this bad outlet is going to kill me if I don't stop using it and fix whatever the issue is. Is it that they're out of phase like BIGFOOT EROTICA mentioned (they are on separate breakers)? Maybe the amp isn't the problem, but allowed me to feel the problem more? If you're okay with rewiring the outlet then do it. It's absolutely something that should be fixed. I would be more curious to see if it's a swapped wire on the duplex receptacle or if the neutral/hot are actually switched all the way back at the service panel. It's also possible you've got a weird situation with a branch circuit with a shared neutral. Check other outlets on the same circuit, if you're able. You can have outlets on different breakers and still have them be in phase. I was just curious more to see if the difference in potential between the two outlets was 240v.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:30
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Is it possible that outlet is actually wired up to provide 220V? Two hot prongs and the ground being used as neutral? Alot of consumer electronics is designed to run on both 110 and 220 to make manufacturing simpler, so your stuff might still run with it miswired, just not safely. To test this, set your multimeter to voltage and stick the prongs into the outlet's holes. On a properly wired outlet you should get the following readings: Neutral (large slot) to Ground: 0V Neutral to Hot (small slot): 120V Hot to Ground: 120V If you have a newer tamper proof outlet with plastic shutters, you need to push open the neutral shutter with something before the hot shutter will unlock.
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Nov 9, 2018 17:57
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240v wired to a NEMA5-15 outlet would sure be.....something
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Nov 9, 2018 18:03
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My new house had one. Upside down outlet mounted to the underside of a cubby in the laundry room. I don't know what the previous owners were running in there that took that kind of juice (maybe an industrial steam press from the 50's?) but they sure saved $5 on that outlet / cord! Still doesn't beat the 500VA computer UPS wire with a 18AWG power cord wire nutted into the circuit in the main panel that was powering all the living room lights / outlets 
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Nov 9, 2018 18:34
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Nevets posted:Is it possible that outlet is actually wired up to provide 220V? Two hot prongs and the ground being used as neutral? Alot of consumer electronics is designed to run on both 110 and 220 to make manufacturing simpler, so your stuff might still run with it miswired, just not safely. This would not have surprised me, but nope, outlet is providing 120v.
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Nov 9, 2018 20:31
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Nevets posted:My new house had one. Upside down outlet mounted to the underside of a cubby in the laundry room. I don't know what the previous owners were running in there that took that kind of juice (maybe an industrial steam press from the 50's?) but they sure saved $5 on that outlet / cord! An electric dryer might use 240VAC.
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Nov 9, 2018 22:40
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Yeah but you would be using a NEMA 6-20 or 14-30 receptacle.
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Nov 9, 2018 23:13
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BIGFOOT EROTICA posted:Yeah but you would be using a NEMA 6-20 or 14-30 receptacle. Well, you would.
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Nov 9, 2018 23:52
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Special A posted:An electric dryer might use 240VAC. Yeah, except that room already had 2 dryer receptacles, a broken 3 prong one in a small cubby that would have fit one of those stacked apartment units, and a 4 prong one on the other side of the room over by the washer hookups.
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Nov 10, 2018 00:07
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BIGFOOT EROTICA posted:240v wired to a NEMA5-15 outlet would sure be.....something I’ve got to dig up the photos I took at the time, but I had that exact thing happen with an outlet for a through-wall AC unit when I moved into my current apartment. The AC the previous owners left behind didn’t work, and I only found the problem when it fried the fan my mother in law lent me while we repainted. The neutral for the circuit had been pulled off the busbar in the breaker panel and tied into a separate spare breaker, but the outlet was still a 5-15...
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Nov 12, 2018 02:01
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kerrhyphen posted:I’ve got to dig up the photos I took at the time, but I had that exact thing happen with an outlet for a through-wall AC unit when I moved into my current apartment. The AC the previous owners left behind didn’t work, and I only found the problem when it fried the fan my mother in law lent me while we repainted. 
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Nov 12, 2018 02:05
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kerrhyphen posted:I’ve got to dig up the photos I took at the time, but I had that exact thing happen with an outlet for a through-wall AC unit when I moved into my current apartment. The AC the previous owners left behind didn’t work, and I only found the problem when it fried the fan my mother in law lent me while we repainted.  that's not how this works... that's not how any of this works! at least it was just a cheap fan, fucks sake.
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Nov 12, 2018 03:20
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Found 'em:  Also the AC they'd installed was a window AC, way too small and with vents on the sides, and when I pulled it out the ~3" gap all around was stuffed with old clothing. T-shirts and jeans and sweatpants...
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Nov 12, 2018 03:22
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i guess if it works it isn't stupid 
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Nov 12, 2018 03:32
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I'm running some conduit to a detached garage, when i transition to above grade do i need an expansion joint? It seems like I do, but I'm curious if that meets the definition for protection when subject to physical damage. I'm using schedule 80 for the run so everywhere else in the run should be fine, I'm just worried about the actual fitting itself not being strong enough.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:55
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Do you live somewhere that gets a real winter? If so then yes you need one. Frost heave is real, and not your friend
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Nov 12, 2018 20:50
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PA so I guess? we get some cold months and snow but it's not like a snowpocalypse
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Nov 12, 2018 21:04
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When I was in PA this year I saw expansion joints on all the utility risers, so I'd say yes you should install one. Even here in SC I see pipes pulled out of couplings/male adapters all the time just because of ground settlement and/or poor installation.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:12
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BIGFOOT EROTICA posted:PA so I guess? we get some cold months and snow but it's not like a snowpocalypse The real question is whether the ground freezes. When the water in the soil expands as it turns to ice and the soil moves, poo poo's gonna break unless you have an expansion joint.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:19
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