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When Obama runs for president in 2020 that's really going to hurt him.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:17
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Glad you acknowledge that won't really hurt Sanders.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:19
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The Muppets On PCP posted:lol he's not even selecting quotes, he's straight up fabricating them LT2012 do you have anything to say about this?
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Nov 9, 2018 03:21
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The only reason it was a dumb thing to say is that he made a statement on ingrained racism while being too  to actually refer to it as ingrained racism.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:21
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Nonsense posted:Glad you acknowledge that won't really hurt Sanders. I doubt it will hurt Sanders at all. But Obama's Special Olympics joke is different than Bernie's statement because one was a dumb wording of a joke and the other is about a political strategy/view of voters. Either way, I doubt this has any real impact. But, it does "mean" more than Obama's comment because it is a statement of policy/strategy and not a joke.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:22
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Jaxyon posted:That doesn't address what he said: How does it not address what he said? Was he supposed to say, "The people who voted for these racist candidates are racist themselves?" Because that seems like a pretty politically dumb move. quote:It was a dumb thing to say. It was indeed a dumb thing to say. I'm glad he clarified what he meant quickly and called those campaigns out for being racist.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:23
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The Muppets On PCP posted:lol he's not even selecting quotes, he's straight up fabricating them Lightning Knight posted:LT2012 do you have anything to say about this? Sweet deja vu.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:24
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LOL if anyone Bernie said that several people would be losing their poo poo. Also LOL at "if bernie wasn't an old pasty white guy" but he is. He's doing the same thing as any other white dude who doesn't want to say that white people are racist, in the hopes of getting those white people to vote for him. He deserves to be criticized for it. It's a bad look.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:25
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Lightning Knight posted:LT2012 do you have anything to say about this? It was a copy and paste from https://ourfuture.org/ which is Bernie's PAC. The other one was literally a twitter embed from Bernie Sanders' official twitter. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 03:25
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Majorian posted:How does it not address what he said? Was he supposed to say, "The people who voted for these racist candidates are racist themselves?" Because that seems like a pretty politically dumb move. I'm sure that apologizing for racist white people as an old white dude plays great with nonwhite people. I'm sure the people who were very upset about how Warren affected the electorally insignificant amount of indigenous voters are very concerned about this.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:27
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Jaxyon posted:LOL if anyone Bernie said that several people would be losing their poo poo. Indeed, calling those voters a basket of deplorables is the smart move. Jaxyon posted:I'm sure that apologizing for racist white people as an old white dude plays great with nonwhite people. I'm sure the people who were very upset about how Warren affected the electorally insignificant amount of indigenous voters are very concerned about this. Bri Gray seemed okay with his clarification. I know she doesn't represent all non-white people, but you seem to be the only person here who thinks this is a huge deal.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:27
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Majorian posted:Indeed, calling those voters a basket of deplorables is the smart move. No, it was also a dumb move, but by all means we need more Hillary chat in this thread.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:28
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Really, all I'm asking for is a clear "this was bad, I hope it doesn't hurt him and I hope he loving learns" But people are double standardizing the poo poo out of this because it's Bernie.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:29
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Jaxyon posted:No, it was also a dumb move, but by all means we need more Hillary chat in this thread. I'm actually trying to get you to tell us what you think would have been the right way for Bernie to atone for his initial mistake. Clearly you're not happy with how he followed up. Jaxyon posted:Really, all I'm asking for is a clear "this was bad, I hope it doesn't hurt him and I hope he loving learns" Everyone here is acknowledging that it was bad. It's almost certainly not going to hurt him. 
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Nov 9, 2018 03:30
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*people consistently call it a dumb statement to make* "God you people literally won't say anything negative."
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Nov 9, 2018 03:31
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Majorian posted:I'm actually trying to get you to tell us what you think would have been the right way for Bernie to atone for his initial mistake. Clearly you're not happy with how he followed up. His mistake was saying that voters who didn't vote a black man because he was black weren't racist. He apologized by saying the campaigns that were run against the black man was were racist. I'd like him to apologize for trying to cover for white racism. I doubt it will happen. I'd still probably vote for Bernie, but a fuckup is a fuckup and trying to bring up Hillary and Obama to deflect is some weak sauce.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:32
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He literally describes how they were racist. The statement is, literally, "Ingrained Racism 101."
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Nov 9, 2018 03:34
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I think Bernie generally believes that his "color-blind" view of class/economics is right and he's spent 30+ years appealing to a 99% white electorate in Vermont. I agree that if anyone else had said the same thing, that some of the same people would be flipping their poo poo. But, I don't think there is any genuine malice in Bernie's statement. Just normal political calculation and a gaffe. People can make racist or racially insensitive statements out of ignorance, but without malice. But, it is still a very bad way to view/phrase it. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 03:34
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Oh Snapple! posted:He literally describes how they were racist. “I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,”
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Nov 9, 2018 03:35
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At the risk of agreeing with LT2012, yes Bernie has always been a "if we solve class we solve race" type. It's one of his weak points.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:36
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Jaxyon posted:I'd like him to apologize for trying to cover for white racism. How would he say that? "I apologize for trying to cover for white racism"? Too vague. "I was wrong, the people who voted for those candidates are racist"? Self-defeating.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:37
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Majorian posted:How would he say that? "I apologize for trying to cover for white racism"? Too vague. "I was wrong, the people who voted for those candidates are racist"? Self-defeating. Maybe by addressing the problematic thing he said in his apology? I guess it's impossible to apologize for saying racist people aren't racist? That's neat.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:38
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The idea is that giving through ActBlue instead of directly to a candidate's campaign is that ActBlue will create a "community" of small-dollar donors and allow smaller donors to easily make contributions to a wider variety of candidates. You can leverage small dollar donor contributions into something more impactful by having $11 million in contributions from small dollar donors spread out to multiple candidates. kosmedia, a for-profit corp, used to have its actblue vig as 50 percent of political contributions, too, lol... till people kept pointing it out.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:44
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Jaxyon posted:Maybe by addressing the problematic thing he said in his apology? I'm not saying it's impossible; I'm just not seeing a way for him to say, "I'm sorry for calling racist voters not racist" that doesn't seriously hurt his chances of being elected. There's a reason why I brought up the "basket of deplorables" line - it wasn't to get a sick burn in on Hillary. The clarification he issued is pretty much the best thing you could hope for from a serious candidate.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:46
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It was a copy and paste from https://ourfuture.org/ which is Bernie's PAC. caf isn't bernie's pac, it was founded in the mid-90s and the guy who wrote that article you quoted has no listed affiliation with sanders and the phrase "kitchen table" has never appeared in any of sanders' tweets, unless you have access to deleted tweets which include the phrase
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Nov 9, 2018 03:46
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The Muppets On PCP posted:caf isn't bernie's pac, it was founded in the mid-90s and the guy who wrote that article you quoted has no listed affiliation with sanders My bad. You are actually right. I mixed up "Our Future" with "Our Revolution." Both of them are progressive political groups, use the same Bernie font and colors, and have transcripts of Bernie speeches.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:48
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Majorian posted:I'm not saying it's impossible; I'm just not seeing a way for him to say, "I'm sorry for calling racist voters not racist" that doesn't seriously hurt his chances of being elected. There's a reason why I brought up the "basket of deplorables" line - it wasn't to get a sick burn in on Hillary. The clarification he issued is pretty much the best thing you could hope for from a serious candidate. There's also the radical option of not saying that.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:52
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Jaxyon posted:There's also the radical option of not saying that. Yes, everyone here is in agreement that he should not have said that.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:53
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I mean that's the actual problem - that he described ingrained racism while not actually calling it as such, because he literally can't as a national-level politician. Which is why he shouldn't have opened his mouth to begin with. His statement was broadly correct but it's a no-win situation. He either straight-up says that all white people carry ingrained racism, which no politician who ever wants to win anything again is gonna do, or goes the decorum route as he did here to try to make the point without causing offense and ends up annoying and deflating folks who correctly identify the described behavior as racist and want it acknowledged because, morally speaking, it deserves to be. It was an immensely dumb situation to put himself in. Something that can be recovered from, most likely, but still dumb.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:53
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Oh Snapple! posted:I mean that's the actual problem - that he described ingrained racism while not actually calling it as such, because he literally can't as a national-level politician. Which is why he shouldn't have opened his mouth to begin with. His statement was broadly correct but it's a no-win situation. He either straight-up says that all white people carry ingrained racism, which no politician who ever wants to win anything again is gonna do, or goes the decorum route as he did here to try to make the point without causing offense and ends up annoying and deflating folks who correctly identify the described behavior as racist and want it acknowledged because, morally speaking, it deserves to be. It was an immensely dumb situation to put himself in. Something that can be recovered from, most likely, but still dumb. Yeah, it's not going to affect his 2020 chances, he just needs to not do that again.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:56
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Oh Snapple! posted:I mean that's the actual problem - that he described ingrained racism while not actually calling it as such, because he literally can't as a national-level politician. Which is why he shouldn't have opened his mouth to begin with. His statement was broadly correct but it's a no-win situation. He either straight-up says that all white people carry ingrained racism, which no politician who ever wants to win anything again is gonna do, or goes the decorum route as he did here to try to make the point without causing offense and ends up annoying and deflating folks who correctly identify the described behavior as racist and want it acknowledged because, morally speaking, it deserves to be. It was an immensely dumb situation to put himself in. Something that can be recovered from, most likely, but still dumb. That's all I want. How quickly this got brushed off in this thread versus if like, Biden had said it, doesn't sit well with me. Great Man hagiography helps nobody, I want people's flaws paid attention to.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:59
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You were just asking questions, that's all.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:04
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not a cult posted:You were just asking questions, that's all. Yes I am secretly a Hillary shill deep embedded to besmirch the name of Bernie. No dissent can be tolerated.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:06
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Jaxyon posted:That's all I want. That's because Biden's actual record on race relations is considerably worse than Bernie's.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:08
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I'm glad that Bernie is the acknowledged front runner.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:08
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Bernie will would have won
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Nov 9, 2018 04:10
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Jaxyon posted:Yes I am secretly a Hillary shill deep embedded to besmirch the name of Bernie. No dissent can be tolerated. Dude, I remember your posting from previous threads, it's pretty obvious your "just asking questions" shtick is bullshit.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:13
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not a cult posted:Dude, I remember your posting from previous threads, it's pretty obvious your "just asking questions" shtick is bullshit. Nope. Feel free to dig up previous posts. I say what I mean. I voted for Bernie in the primary, I just don't like it when people are dumb about the people they like.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:28
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Then it's a good thing nobody's being dumb about him, except you, comparing him to Biden.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:30
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Majorian posted:How does it not address what he said? Was he supposed to say, "The people who voted for these racist candidates are racist themselves?" Because that seems like a pretty politically dumb move. This isn't really an excuse; that just means he shouldn't have said anything at all. I would strongly steer clear of "he had no choice for political reasons" as an excuse for politicians, but it's usually a bad one. Majorian posted:Indeed, calling those voters a basket of deplorables is the smart move. This is actually worse than the basket of deplorables thing, in that the stuff Hillary was saying during that quote was actually technically true and just sounded bad. In this case Sanders is actually just wrong when he tries to downplay people not voting for Abrams/Gillum based on race as "not being racist." I mean, it's obviously not some disqualifying thing in context of 2020 candidates or anything, but it was definitely a bad thing to say. Jaxyon posted:At the risk of agreeing with LT2012, yes Bernie has always been a "if we solve class we solve race" type. It's one of his weak points. This isn't really true; his views on this have changed over the years and he's now at least as good as any other Democrats on the issue. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 04:32
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