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not a cult posted:Then it's a good thing nobody's being dumb about him, except you, comparing him to Biden. I didn't realize that saying Bernie said a dumb thing was being dumb about him, but sure dude.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:33
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i thought bernie was jewish tbqh
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Nov 9, 2018 04:34
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Bernie Sanders is a klansman. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 9, 2018 04:35
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Bernie Klanders is a sandman. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 9, 2018 04:36
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Jaxyon posted:I didn't realize that saying Bernie said a dumb thing was being dumb about him, but sure dude. Here's who you're comparing him to: Al! posted:wow, no wonder biden is a fan of him Imagine I put one of those "Shut the gently caress up liberal" pictures here now.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:36
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Ytlaya posted:This isn't really an excuse; that just means he shouldn't have said anything at all. I would strongly steer clear of "he had no choice for political reasons" as an excuse for politicians, but it's usually a bad one. No one's excusing what he initially said; we're all in agreement that he shouldn't have said it. The only thing I'm saying is that his clarification was about as good as you can expect from a likely serious presidential candidate.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:40
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If I were a moron getting back into betting on this stuff I'd put my money on Booker. He has enough charisma to offset his iffy parts and that unfortunately counts for much more than it should.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:41
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Rex-Goliath posted:If I were a moron getting back into betting on this stuff I'd put my money on Booker. He has enough charisma to offset his iffy parts and that unfortunately counts for much more than it should. Charisma has diminishing returns when you have the affect of a used car salesman.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:43
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Majorian posted:Charisma has diminishing returns when you have the affect of a used car salesman. Yeah he's no Obama that's for sure. I'd put him under Biden and Bernie on charisma but I really doubt they'll be running.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:49
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Rex-Goliath posted:If I were a moron getting back into betting on this stuff I'd put my money on Booker. He has enough charisma to offset his iffy parts and that unfortunately counts for much more than it should. I don't think Booker has enough of a national profile to break out of what is likely to be a crowded field. Also, in the NYT article about staffers in Iowa being contacted by potential Presidential campaigns, they mentioned that the establishment national donors and local politicos in Iowa were not hot on Booker and he might have problems recruiting staff in Iowa and raising money. Organization and money in Iowa is huge. That's how you over-perform in caucuses, get ahead of the pack, and force some of your competitors to drop out.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:50
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booker is so obviously a cynical slimeball, i hope he runs
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Nov 9, 2018 04:50
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Rex-Goliath posted:Yeah he's no Obama that's for sure. I'd put him under Biden and Bernie on charisma but I really doubt they'll be running. Bernie's former head fundraiser has all but said that Bernie is running again. But, he seemed to imply that it would be as a message campaign. And that NYT article on Iowa staffers said that Bernie's people were one of the campaigns that had looked into staff in Iowa. For the record, it was: - Bernie - Biden - Booker - Harris - Warren who had looked into staff in Iowa. That doesn't mean that any of them are running for sure, but they are at least thinking about it. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 04:52
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not a cult posted:Imagine I put one of those "Shut the gently caress up liberal" pictures here now. I am undone by you owning me with the fact that Joe "I was a piece of poo poo to Anita hill" Biden is a bad dude. Truly, I thought he was the best of men before this moment. Your ability to miss my point has truly owned me. Anyone who criticizes Bernie is a liberal. It is known.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:54
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Calibanibal posted:booker is so obviously a cynical slimeball, i hope he runs I think Booker is the opposite of a cynical slimeball. He's a super idealistic guy who is a little bit high on his own supply of grassroots/personal politicking style and idealism.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:55
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Jaxyon posted:I am undone by you owning me with the fact that Joe "I was a piece of poo poo to Anita hill" Biden is a bad dude. Truly, I thought he was the best of men before this moment. Dude this is literally what you said: Jaxyon posted:How quickly this got brushed off in this thread versus if like, Biden had said it, doesn't sit well with me. That's why people were pointing out to you that Biden has a really bad record of actual, tangible, political behavior on race.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:57
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I don't think Booker has enough of a national profile to break out of what is likely to be a crowded field. Yeah but who does? Warren? This is assuming that neither Bernie nor Biden run Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Bernie's former head fundraiser has all but said that Bernie is running again. But, he seemed to imply that it would be as a message campaign. Yeah that's how 2016 was supposed to be too. If he runs he stands a very good chance of winning imo- I just don't think he's going to.
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Nov 9, 2018 04:59
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I think Booker is the opposite of a cynical slimeball. He's a super idealistic guy who is a little bit high on his own supply of grassroots/personal politicking style and idealism. lol
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Nov 9, 2018 05:08
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Jaxyon posted:Anyone who criticizes Bernie is a liberal. It is known. Not everyone, but you definitely are.
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Nov 9, 2018 05:09
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I think whether or not he wants to run doesn't really matter, he needs to run, if for no other reason than to save the Dems from themselves. The field is crowded with sellouts who will gladly run to the middle at the first opportunity, and it seems like running to the middle is a recipe for losing in the current political climate. The voters have made it pretty clear they aren't interested in fence sitters or policy wonks who confuse statistics and analysis for a message, but that's what will get nominated if Sanders or someone like him isn't up on the debate stage asking what we're going to do to help people in the real world. Whether his campaign plans to be successful or not, he needs to be front and center pulling the debate leftwards, otherwise everything he's pushing for will be watered down and gutted six months before the election even happens.
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Nov 9, 2018 05:09
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Wicked Them Beats posted:I think whether or not he wants to run doesn't really matter, he needs to run, if for no other reason than to save the Dems from themselves. The field is crowded with sellouts who will gladly run to the middle at the first opportunity, and it seems like running to the middle is a recipe for losing in the current political climate. The voters have made it pretty clear they aren't interested in fence sitters or policy wonks who confuse statistics and analysis for a message, but that's what will get nominated if Sanders or someone like him isn't up on the debate stage asking what we're going to do to help people in the real world.  It would be great if there were someone who was younger and hit all these targets, and it's pretty damning that the Dems don't. But we don't have many alternatives who are as likely to win.
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Nov 9, 2018 05:34
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Wicked Them Beats posted:I think whether or not he wants to run doesn't really matter, he needs to run, if for no other reason than to save the Dems from themselves. The field is crowded with sellouts who will gladly run to the middle at the first opportunity, and it seems like running to the middle is a recipe for losing in the current political climate. The voters have made it pretty clear they aren't interested in fence sitters or policy wonks who confuse statistics and analysis for a message, but that's what will get nominated if Sanders or someone like him isn't up on the debate stage asking what we're going to do to help people in the real world. The thing that bugs me about the "policy wonks" isn't that they use statistics and analysis, but that they do so poorly and in ways that involve bad assumptions. Like, a significant portion of "wonkery" is related to offsetting the costs of programs, a goal which has its own set of false assumptions build into it.
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Nov 9, 2018 05:40
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I don't know man. If he were a super cynical shark doing anything to win, then would he be chatting with strippers on social media, hanging out with addicts, talking non-stop about veganism and how it changed his life, saying the same things about LGBT, race, and criminal justice issues that he was saying in the student newspapers in 1988, talking about racism, and constantly calling attention to his sexuality and refusing to call himself straight? I think he is really idealistic and fully believes in his style of politicking (and implicitly his own specialness as an individual "just folks" local vegan guy of ambiguous sexuality who can convince anyone of his reasonableness if he can just get to chatting one on one). Cynicism implies that he has been doing all of it as an act for the last decade.
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Nov 9, 2018 05:45
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I think Booker is the opposite of a cynical slimeball. He's a super idealistic guy who is a little bit high on his own supply of grassroots/personal politicking style and idealism. "Stop attacking private equity!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co7GpMks8UA
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Nov 9, 2018 05:45
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Ytlaya posted:The thing that bugs me about the "policy wonks" isn't that they use statistics and analysis, but that they do so poorly and in ways that involve bad assumptions. Like, a significant portion of "wonkery" is related to offsetting the costs of programs, a goal which has its own set of false assumptions build into it. Everyone loved that scene in Dave where the fake president unilaterally cuts a bunch of programs to pay for a program he wants Also, the scene where he went "I once caught a fish THIS big"
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Nov 9, 2018 05:46
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Ytlaya posted:The thing that bugs me about the "policy wonks" isn't that they use statistics and analysis, but that they do so poorly and in ways that involve bad assumptions. Like, a significant portion of "wonkery" is related to offsetting the costs of programs, a goal which has its own set of false assumptions build into it. It's even worse than that because they aren't even consistent, if we're throwing an extra $50 billion at the military budget it doesn't need to be offset at all, so like they don't even believe their assumptions, it's purely an excuse for ideology
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Nov 9, 2018 05:46
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DynamicSloth posted:"Stop attacking private equity!" That kind of supports my idea that he is not some cynical mastermind who has finely crafted an image for decades. He revitalized Newark with money, jobs, and services from the technology, education, and finance fields and thinks that saying "they are all bad." is wrong. It was politically dumb to criticize your own party's nominee (who is also the first black President and you yourself are black and your political base base in Newark is overwhelmingly black) on that issue and he did it anyway. I don't think he is cynical or finely tailoring a false image. I think he is earnest in all his weird, bad, and good beliefs and mannerisms. If you were a cynical mastermind crafting a fake political persona for decades, then "Vegan, bisexual/maybe gay, black guy who hangs out with and basically preaches to strippers and addicts, talks about racism and criminal justice reform to white people, and turned his city around with help from investment firms" is a weird one to go with. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 05:51
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DynamicSloth posted:"Stop attacking private equity!" More important than what he is saying is that this shows that Booker has loving zero political IQ.
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Nov 9, 2018 05:54
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Sodomy Hussein posted:More important than what he is saying is that this shows that Booker has loving zero political IQ. I legitimately think that constantly talking about veganism, bad-mouthing beef and football, and being "anti-car" are the most politically damaging things he's said. There will definitely be some people who will vote based on those statements.
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Nov 9, 2018 06:03
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Sodomy Hussein posted:More important than what he is saying is that this shows that Booker has loving zero political IQ. It was certainly the day I was done with Booker forever.
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Nov 9, 2018 06:04
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I legitimately think that constantly talking about veganism, bad-mouthing beef and football, and being "anti-car" are the most politically damaging things he's said. I'm extremely online and knew about exactly none of these things from him, and he'll already be painted as a "coastal elite" so who the gently caress cares that he is any of these things? Like I won't stan for Booker and don't want him to be the nominee but none of these things matter.
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Nov 9, 2018 06:04
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Lightning Knight posted:I'm extremely online and knew about exactly none of these things from him, and he'll already be painted as a "coastal elite" so who the gently caress cares that he is any of these things? I bet tons of TV ads of Booker bad-mouthing football/beef and talking about how it will be a great day when the last car with an internal combustion engine is made will impact votes in Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida. Especially coming from the possibly gay, vegan, black guy from the east coast. Football, cars, and beef are American cultural touchstones and huge local industries in important states.
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Nov 9, 2018 06:08
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I bet tons of TV ads of Booker bad-mouthing football/beef and talking about how it will be a great day when the last car with an internal combustion engine is made will impact votes in Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida. I think you have a very small imagination if you think that "cultural liberal" is the thing they're going to focus on attacking a black bachelor in his '50s for.
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Nov 9, 2018 06:10
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Lightning Knight posted:I think you have a very small imagination if you think that "cultural liberal" is the thing they're going to focus on attacking a black bachelor in his '50s for. It doesn't have to a cultural thing. It's that there are direct quotes of him attacking major industries in important electoral college states. And football is cross-partisan. It will be the same thing as when they got a clip of Hillary Clinton saying that we had to reduce our coal consumption, she will be happy when coal power plants shut down, and that some of those coal jobs aren't coming back. They played it non-stop in PA, IN, WV, and OH for 5 months.
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Nov 9, 2018 06:14
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:He revitalized Newark with money, jobs, and services from the technology, education, and finance fields and thinks that saying "they are all bad." is wrong. Booker is a product of New Jersey, which is a state highly dependent on pharmaceuticals and the financial sector for jobs. If anyone is looking for a swashbuckling populist hero, they're not going to come from New Jersey or New York or Connecticut because all of those states are too dominated by industries like banking and insurance to ever produce the kind of class warrior that many people here are looking for. I just feel like something else is missing about Booker even when you get past some of his policy shortcomings. I can't quite articulate it, but he just gives me a "close, but no cigar" vibe.
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Nov 9, 2018 06:27
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Turns out being Presidential timber is a lot more than checking the right boxes!! I feel like we had a recent election that proved this resolutely but I just can’t seem to put my finger on it now
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Nov 9, 2018 07:27
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From a way too early handicapping POV, the portion of the program dedicated to purity tests has been a joke on the right for at least 2 cycles even before the orange man blew it up and I don't really see a reason why anything different will happen on the left this time. It really is just checking boxes. The nohopers try their best to sit in Iowa/NH and check every single drat box for a year, then get outmaneuvered by the handful of candidates who have enough money and backing to plan ahead while merely checking off 80% of the boxes for 8 months. If any of that was important, the last 20 years would've had some very different nominees. Booker's chances are weak, but it's not because he's not pure enough or too vegan or whatever. This primary is going to happen under Trump's nose and he'll be subtweeting the whole way. The person who gets out of the logjam is the most electable person with the best social media profile. This might describe Cory Booker but there are half a dozen people in the race better at it than him.
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Nov 9, 2018 13:17
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Adar posted:It really is just checking boxes. The nohopers try their best to sit in Iowa/NH and check every single drat box for a year, then get outmaneuvered by the handful of candidates who have enough money and backing to plan ahead while merely checking off 80% of the boxes for 8 months. Remember when Chris Dodd moved his entire family from Connecticut to Iowa for two years, sent his kids to Iowa public schools, and literally released a Dodd Checklist to show how he was different from the other candidates and then this happened?  Gotta admire the effort, though.
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Nov 9, 2018 14:00
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:I bet tons of TV ads of Booker bad-mouthing football/beef and talking about how it will be a great day when the last car with an internal combustion engine is made will impact votes in Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida. To this point, remember that Martha Coakley hosed up knowing anything about the Red Sox and this sunk her in MA. It's dumb but voters aren't rational. Based on what we saw on Tuesday, the 2020 Dems need to keep the message focused on "Trump sucks" + "economic populism" and stay away from culture war issues where possible. Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Remember when Chris Dodd moved his entire family from Connecticut to Iowa for two years, sent his kids to Iowa public schools, and literally released a Dodd Checklist to show how he was different from the other candidates and then this happened?  Dodd only got a single vote in Iowa in 2008? that's hilarious.
axeil fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 15:23
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axeil posted:
Caucuses are weird and not really democratic. Dodd won a single precinct. Caucuses have everyone go to a few thousand precinct locations, sit there for an few hours to listen to speeches from the candidate's representatives, and then everyone makes a public vote by standing in a circle representative of that candidate. If a candidate fails to meet a certain threshold, then they can try to convince other people to move and support their candidate. The caucus ends when everyone decides that they are staying put and have moved into the camp of a candidate who is above the threshold. Dodd won 1 precinct out of 2,501. He definitely got more than one vote, but precincts aren't evenly divided. So, he could have won a precinct with 14 people by getting 5 votes.
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Nov 9, 2018 15:30
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He won a single state *delegate*, not a single precinct. That means that there was one (1) place where, after the second round, he received the support of 15% of precinct attendees.
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Nov 9, 2018 15:43
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