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Ask her about the locket . I'm hoping to burn this bridge early.
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Nov 9, 2018 09:59
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Let's ask why she fights.
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Nov 9, 2018 10:03
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TracerK posted:I doubt Jury would want to open up to someone she literally just met about a day ago about her secret crush. Let's ask why she fights. Let's learn more about her personality rather than invading her privacy, shall we?
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Nov 9, 2018 14:01
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Ask about why she fights I feel like asking about the Locket will upset Jury.
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Nov 9, 2018 16:34
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We need like 100 more heart rose things with Juri to even think about talking about that locket, so let's just start with asking why does she fight Also cheesy as the scene is, it's kinda nice to know Juri can take a shower without making it angsty and sad for once
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Nov 9, 2018 16:49
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No awkward joke? Or option to compliment her looks? Uh... Ask about why she fights? But I can't help but wonder if it's one of those times when prying is the better choice since we have a valid reason to, kinda.
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Nov 9, 2018 19:07
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What's up with that Locket? Let's throw the hail mary, trial by fire baby
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Nov 9, 2018 21:43
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I'm still trying to look through the character's eyes here. It's easy to assume Jury would fight because it's her sport, but maybe Song-San isn't so presumptuous. Either way the locket she just saw would be a real question mark, and to me it comes down to whether or not Song-San would be able to contain her curiosity. Judging by the direction of her gaze in that picture I'm going to say her curiosity wins out over decorum in the end. The locket
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Nov 9, 2018 23:00
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Why she fights, lets not get too nosy
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Nov 9, 2018 23:02
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That was fast. Though I guess we slept with Utena last night. Why she fights Because we know she (probably) won't open up about the locket.
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Nov 10, 2018 00:06
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So...why would Jury refuse to duel Chigusa?
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Nov 10, 2018 01:39
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Ask her why she fights.
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Nov 10, 2018 01:45
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Ask her about the locket. We're showering with her, for heaven's sake.
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Nov 10, 2018 02:34
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Patter Song posted:So...why would Jury refuse to duel Chigusa? Because there's only room at Ohtori for one fencing hall, and one captain of it? That's the best I got e: misread the question a little, I meant that this is why she'd want to duel her but can't bc that's personal feelings Flac fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Nov 10, 2018 |
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Nov 10, 2018 03:27
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Patter Song posted:So...why would Jury refuse to duel Chigusa? Because she already agreed to spar with Patter Song Because Chigusa is only recently recovered from illness Because Juri blames her for her crush turning into a manipulative bitch, Because after starting to lose, Chigusa would turn into a giant Chigusa-bot and we haven't even started to find the parts of the Akio mech? Chigusa would be about Jury's age (assuming we take her story at face value) right? She's in the same year as Patter Song because she missed several years of school?
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Nov 10, 2018 12:57
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Patter Song posted:So...why would Jury refuse to duel Chigusa? Why she fights
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Nov 10, 2018 13:03
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Randalor posted:
The pilots gather together in the cockpit, so named because it's Akio's penis.
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Nov 10, 2018 18:51
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Patter Song posted:The pilots gather together in the cockpit, so named because it's Akio's penis. So it's secretly Zone of the Enders 3
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Nov 10, 2018 21:52
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Turn A Gundam also does a literal cockpit. Poor It's probably my favorite full length Gundam (though I do love Zeta) because it combines surreal absurdist comical elements with Tomino's usual pessimistic message and makes it easier to go down than something like Victory which is unrelentingly bleak. It's definitely the best non-UC Gundam.
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Nov 10, 2018 22:06
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why fite?? because we're very heterosexual here and we're thinking about swords all day long Also, I've only watched the anime and I really enjoy how you break down the characters and themes PS. Thanks for this thread it's very gay and surprisingly trans. 
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Nov 10, 2018 22:50
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T-man posted:Thanks for this thread it's very gay and surprisingly trans.
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Nov 11, 2018 00:49
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T-man posted:why fite?? because we're very heterosexual here and we're thinking about swords all day long Always nice to have new readers onboard, thanks for the praise! If you liked the show, try watching the movie as well. As for the game, I'm only presenting it the way it almost demands to be presented: this is a bold work in its gender/sexual attitudes, especially given it was released in 1998. In some ways, this game is more blatant than the show is about its sexual themes, so no point in doing anything else but meeting them head on and talking about them. The game just sort of accepts that Ohtori is an environment where everyone is some degree of bisexual and runs with it in a way the show always implies, but only ever really shows named characters getting into. The scene in the LP when Chigusa joins the class and all the girls in the class immediately begin intensely gossiping about how they're going to get into her pants is really illustrative of just how the game portrays this setting.  I have to admit that at first I had my doubts as to whether or not I'd be the right person to LP a game like this, given that I'm, well, a straight man, and this is the video game adaptation of an intensely gay, feminist show. I'm glad to hear that I've been doing it justice so far. Xom posted:The following line supports a fan theory you'd like… I can't say I've heard that fan theory, but it'd definitely make the way everyone keeps getting confused by Chigusa's gender a lot more explicable. Also, I do love that quote. Chigusa introduces herself with her preferred pronouns in 1998. Game is so ahead of its time. It'd have been rated M and the subject to Jack Thompson-led protests if they'd released it over in the US at the time. PS: nice to see an Utena avatar poster. I'll probably have to end up with an Utena avatar at some point before this thread's over, but there are so many options. Perhaps one featuring the Protagonist or Chigusa. Patter Song fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 01:08
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Patter Song posted:It's definitely the best non-UC Gundam. Wing and G Gundam exist 
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Nov 11, 2018 05:06
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Ace of Aces posted:Wing and G Gundam exist G Gundam is fun, but G Gundam is "Gundam for people who don't like Gundam." Gundam Wing has some things going for it (especially the soundtrack and the character/costume designs which are magnificent), but it's a sped-up retelling of the MSG/Zeta/Char's Counterattack storyline (with the movie being a ZZ homage) to the point where parts of it don't really make sense if you don't remember how things originally went. Zechs becoming a partisan of the...whatever they call Spacenoids in Wing...makes no sense: he's Earth royalty, with no connection to space. He only becomes that because Char became that in the original, and Char had good reason to. I don't dislike Wing (how can I with those glorious 18th century military uniforms), but it's a bit of a gorgeous mess. Gundam X is better than its reputation and it's a shame it was cancelled early. That's a non-UC series I enjoyed. It had all the elements I missed from the UC, like the Newtypes and the Federation/pseudo-Zeon conflict, but in a very, very different context. 99% of humanity destroyed itself in a massive war? What do the leaders of the remaining 1% want to do? Have another war! Even though it's not a Tomino-directed show, it has his fundamental pessimism about human nature. Sorry for ruining my own thread. Maybe I should take this to ADTRW or to one of the ongoing Gundam LP threads.
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Nov 11, 2018 05:17
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Gundam X had better music than Gundam Wing.
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Nov 11, 2018 13:52
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This is mostly making me want a Gundam series, but, like, Utena. GOOD THING FOR ME STAR DRIVER EXISTS
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Nov 11, 2018 14:12
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Patter Song posted:Always nice to have new readers onboard, thanks for the praise! If you liked the show, try watching the movie as well. As for the game, I'm only presenting it the way it almost demands to be presented: this is a bold work in its gender/sexual attitudes, especially given it was released in 1998. In some ways, this game is more blatant than the show is about its sexual themes, so no point in doing anything else but meeting them head on and talking about them. The game just sort of accepts that Ohtori is an environment where everyone is some degree of bisexual and runs with it in a way the show always implies, but only ever really shows named characters getting into. The scene in the LP when Chigusa joins the class and all the girls in the class immediately begin intensely gossiping about how they're going to get into her pants is really illustrative of just how the game portrays this setting. You're doing a drat fine job overall. I might suggest toning down the "GEE I WONDER IF THEY'RE FEMALE <boob pic>" stuff, it's a bit abrasive at times. Plus, this sort of... I dunno, thick-headed inability to explicitly discuss gay/gender-nonconforming desires is a common one, especially in closeted gay/trans people. Patter Song is just figuring out this whole sexuality thing, lay off the 14(?) year old. It might also be interesting to hear more about the men's queerness, since I think it plays a lot with the overall themes of patriarchy. But again, overall great and I look forward to more.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:43
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Patter Song posted:I have to admit that at first I had my doubts as to whether or not I'd be the right person to LP a game like this, given that I'm, well, a straight man, and this is the video game adaptation of an intensely gay, feminist show. I'm glad to hear that I've been doing it justice so far. I mean, in all fairness, I'm pretty sure the creator of the show is a straight dude too, so. (I mean, yes, it's not like Ikuhara is the sole voice and creator of the show, but at the end of the day he had the most say on the final product.)
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Nov 11, 2018 21:56
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T-man posted:It might also be interesting to hear more about the men's queerness, since I think it plays a lot with the overall themes of patriarchy. I'd be happy to do that, but we haven't really interacted much with Saionji or Touga. (Or Miki, who has that amazing moment in episode 6 where he's fantasizing about what he wants and ends up thinking of a shirtless Touga encouraging him) Also, our character's a girl, so if we did pursue Touga, we'd see him the way all the women who interact with Touga in the series see him: as a tantalizing proposition of intimacy with the school's sex icon, but one who is incredibly fickle and not at all loyal to any woman. I'd be fine going down that road just because I think it'd be interesting to try to flip the script a bit there (who's to say we're not the ones after a "hit it and quit it" purely physical affair with Touga?), but we can't interact with him as a man to see the differences with how he approaches other men. (Series spoiler, not game spoiler) (He approaches other men the same way Akio approaches him: as a mentor to lead them down a patriarchal path, and using sex to establish his dominance and higher position over them the way Akio does to him) Re: Chigusa and the boob joke, I try not to do that too much, but the joke wasn't "Chigusa has cleavage," it's "the Protagonist is completely incompetent at reading social cues." Chigusa also has a very feminine voice (although clearly an alto, the stereotypical "evil woman" voice range for all fiction). Needless to say, if Chigusa had turned out to identify as a man, well, I'd refer to him as a he and not have any issues with that. That said, I get that the joke might not have gone over too well, so I won't do that again, although the game is far from done with discussing Chigusa's gender and her sexuality.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:19
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Camel Pimp posted:I mean, in all fairness, I'm pretty sure the creator of the show is a straight dude too, so. (I mean, yes, it's not like Ikuhara is the sole voice and creator of the show, but at the end of the day he had the most say on the final product.) It's hard to speak with authority about these things, but I wouldn't underestimate Yoji Enokido's individual impact on Utena. (No idea about his orientation, etc.)
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Nov 12, 2018 00:25
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I was straight too, once. You grow out of it sometimes. :p
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Nov 12, 2018 02:09
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Calling the vote 12-4, even though more people reading this vote occasionally, not enough to overturn "Why she fights'" decisive lead. Next time: we get out of the shower and the protagonist puts some clothes on again, finally. Camel Pimp posted:I mean, in all fairness, I'm pretty sure the creator of the show is a straight dude too, so. (I mean, yes, it's not like Ikuhara is the sole voice and creator of the show, but at the end of the day he had the most say on the final product.)  Yeah, but Ikuhara looks way, way better in a miniskirt than most straight men do.
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Nov 12, 2018 02:23
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Tbh I'd like to see the hit it and quit it route with all the student council members except Saionji and Juri, and end up fast friends with Utena and Juri.
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Nov 13, 2018 10:34
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Alas I found this thread far too late to mount a futile curiosity campaign for Saionji's route. Though I don't want the protagonist to date him, I'm curious what they did with him. Some in-depth Utena discussion currently going on elsewhere has managed to kindle some vague sympathy for him. He's terrible, of course, but Ohtori is not helping him at all. Can't imagine that a brief flirtation with Patter Song would be much help for his issues though.
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Nov 13, 2018 21:20
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gegi posted:Alas I found this thread far too late to mount a futile curiosity campaign for Saionji's route. Though I don't want the protagonist to date him, I'm curious what they did with him. Some in-depth Utena discussion currently going on elsewhere has managed to kindle some vague sympathy for him. He's terrible, of course, but Ohtori is not helping him at all. Hey, nothing's set in stone yet. Nothing says that people need to vote for Jury in every vote coming up. Totally valid to keep two or three irons in the fire.
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Nov 13, 2018 21:30
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I have all the assets ripped from the game if you'd like them Patter, just shoot me a DM and I'll send you a link. The backgrounds in this game are gorgeous for how low resolution they are.
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Nov 13, 2018 23:19
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gegi posted:Alas I found this thread far too late to mount a futile curiosity campaign for Saionji's route. Though I don't want the protagonist to date him, I'm curious what they did with him. Some in-depth Utena discussion currently going on elsewhere has managed to kindle some vague sympathy for him. He's terrible, of course, but Ohtori is not helping him at all. i can't help but pity saionji these days. he never had real friends and he barely affects anyone or anything throughout the show. he has a genuine want for love somewhere in there and it makes his possessive, bratty lashing out so pathetic to watch now. the fact that he's like, entry level evil boy for a school where i can easily name a few others who do much, much, much worse certainly helps the case that he could use a change of environment.  speaking of, enjoy this cool pic of him i found on the gallery e: asking because i do not want to be stuck doing cutesy euphemisms about this: are we allowed to be a little more honest for what the anime deals with, as far as what counts as spoilers? i don't want to sound overzealous here but when i first watched, the internet widely told me to expect "cute, gay, weird" and like, nothing else. i was unprepared and felt pretty bitter about being misled for years. ignoring or sugarcoating the incest and grooming and rape is a huge mistake when all signs pointing to it being crucial to the story, and it's attacked for what it is more forcefully than most stories out there imo. i don't want people going in to have that same experience. Flac fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Nov 14, 2018 |
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Nov 14, 2018 11:40
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I know I'm 2 weeks late in saying this, but I disagree with you that Miki is a boring character, Patter Song. I assume you probably mean he's the least proactive of the main cast, but his role in the story is more interesting when you think of him as much needed contrast to the outrageously abusive/hostile behavior of other male characters, which also brings attention to a more insidious brand of sexism. Miki's got firmly entrenched ideas about how men and women should ideally behave, he's offended that his twin sister Kozue would go so far to resist being dragged into this narrative*, he's disgusted that Kozue has "ruined" herself even in his memories, and he's got a crush on Anthy pretty explicitly because she's a doormat he can project anything he wants on. Miki's desire to be a duelist is entirely hypocritical, too: he perceives himself as the lone nice guy willing to protect a virtuous but vulnerable girl from MC's dad is supposed to sound like a scumbag for saying "girls don't have to be strong" but Miki's sexism is the type that gets a pass even while not so secretly thinking the same thing. I personally can't consider Miki boring when he so effectively serves as an example of how society's worst ideas about gender affect us early and get internalized even by otherwise good, well-meaning people. *Edit: I say Kozue is "resisting the narrative" but I don't mean to imply her wild behavior is super feminist or anything, just that Miki can't handle Kozue when she's not falling into the role of cute little sister, and Kozue is using that against him. I'd elaborate on this further but Patter Song said to limit big blocks of text behind spoiler tags so I'll leave it at that. Kaasen fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Nov 14, 2018 |
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Nov 14, 2018 16:43
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Miki has a big problem with putting the women in his life (Anthy and Kozue) on pedestals. Especially Kozue.
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Nov 14, 2018 18:08
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Flac posted:e: asking because i do not want to be stuck doing cutesy euphemisms about this: are we allowed to be a little more honest for what the anime deals with, as far as what counts as spoilers? i don't want to sound overzealous here but when i first watched, the internet widely told me to expect "cute, gay, weird" and like, nothing else. i was unprepared and felt pretty bitter about being misled for years. ignoring or sugarcoating the incest and grooming and rape is a huge mistake when all signs pointing to it being crucial to the story, and it's attacked for what it is more forcefully than most stories out there imo. i don't want people going in to have that same experience. I'm not sugarcoating the experience: the show deals with themes of incest and sexual abuse, and comes down very harshly on both elements (though it has a surprisingly nuanced and sophisticated analysis the effects and links between the two). I've just been trying to deal with the things the game threw at me. If you all had picked Miki rather than Jury a while back, we'd be having a very different conversation: that Fencing Club thing could've led to this conversation.  In which the Protagonist meets Miki's sister Kozue and there is immediate and deeply unsettling sexual jealousy and tension between the twins that the Protagonist is completely out of her depth dealing with. We chose differently, so we're going to need to have chats on Jury's themes. Don't worry (or, rather, do worry), as Anthy and Akio's sibling relationship is an unavoidable element of the game and I promise I will talk about it when we reach it. PS: general hint to the thread: just because you're voting for Jury now doesn't mean that you need to vote for Jury for literally every single choice option going forward. If you want to, you can...but picking Jury every time means you're not seeing a lot of what this game has to offer in terms of its plot, and Jury's pretty far removed from some of the series' themes.
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Nov 14, 2018 23:05
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