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Chomskyan posted:This is my real problem with the #resistance types. Their causes, like defending the Mueller investigation (which will lead to nothing), suck oxygen out of potential protest movements that could be impactful, and could change our society for the better. Instead they choose to use that energy to prop up wholly compromised institutions like the FBI and Justice Department This is my problem with the nothing matters types. Might as well lie down in your own piss and stop trying. 
Spun Dog fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 18:19
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Chomskyan posted:This is my real problem with the #resistance types. Their causes, like defending the Mueller investigation (which will lead to nothing), suck oxygen out of potential protest movements that could be impactful, and could change our society for the better. Instead they choose to use that energy to prop up wholly compromised institutions like the FBI and Justice Department Sir, this is a McDonald's drive-thru (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 9, 2018 18:19
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evilweasel posted:The factual premises here are all factually untrue, most flagrantly in the case of why Trump has not fired Mueller. It's just not a sustainable argument to claim Trump actually believes he has nothing to fear from Mueller because not a single action he's taken about the Mueller investigation - or its predecessor, the FBI investigation that lead Trump to fire Comey - fits with that narrative. Especially his rage over it being allowed to continue being the sole reason he fired Sessions, the person who is otherwise the most perfect AG for Trump in every respect but that willingness to end the Mueller investigation. He has not fired Mueller because he has been convinced there will be negative consequences to doing so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWvevkE0kAI&t=17s
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Nov 9, 2018 18:20
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Chomskyan posted:Their causes, like defending the Mueller investigation (which will lead to nothing), suck oxygen out of potential protest movements that could be impactful The U.S. would have to have much greater class consciousness for the types of protest movements that you're thinking of to happen, unfortunately. They're going to have to see for themselves how Trump is merely symptomatic of a diseased political system, and how we're going to need a deeper operation if we're going to survive.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:20
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Your Taint posted:Sir, this is a McDonald's drive-thru stop dragging out this tired as gently caress joke every other day people come up with something original for once
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Nov 9, 2018 18:20
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Toaster Beef posted:Can we just marvel for a second at the fact that an 85-year-old woman broke three ribs and shrugged it off for a few hours before going to the hospital because she felt "discomfort," then got released from the hospital like a day later and is already looking at working from home? She works out. She eats well. Please Work Out
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Nov 9, 2018 18:21
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Chomskyan posted:This is my real problem with the #resistance types. Their causes, like defending the Mueller investigation (which will lead to nothing), suck oxygen out of potential protest movements that could be impactful, and could change our society for the better. Instead they choose to use that energy to prop up wholly compromised institutions like the FBI and Justice Department Not that I think #resistance types (goofball facebook-only types) are doing anything very useful, but aren't the FBI and JD just vessels, and not things that can be indelibly corrupted? KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 18:21
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Chomskyan posted:This is my real problem with the #resistance types. Their causes, like defending the Mueller investigation (which will lead to nothing), suck oxygen out of potential protest movements that could be impactful, and could change our society for the better. Instead they choose to use that energy to prop up wholly compromised institutions like the FBI and Justice Department Protests aren't zero sum. There's no air being sucked out. It's not particularly effective on its own, sure, but it's not like the Women's March or the March for Science or whatever is tempting people away from joining antifa and smashing Nazis. Besides, normalizing marching and other direct action by even milquetoast liberals is a good thing, because it encourages people to do it more and get more involved.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:21
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CuddleCryptid posted:Lock up...Hillary clinton? Katherine Harris, let's take this poo poo way back
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Nov 9, 2018 18:22
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Lemming posted:Protests aren't zero sum. There's no air being sucked out. It's not particularly effective on its own, sure, but it's not like the Women's March or the March for Science or whatever is tempting people away from joining antifa and smashing Nazis. Besides, normalizing marching and other direct action by even milquetoast liberals is a good thing, because it encourages people to do it more and get more involved. This too. Actually getting people out protesting and not just engaging in slacktivism or whatever is good. Entryism works.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:23
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Chomskyan posted:Trump's NLRB recently ruled union picketing illegal Chomskyan posted:This is my real problem with the #resistance types. Their causes, like defending the Mueller investigation (which will lead to nothing), suck oxygen out of potential protest movements that could be impactful, and could change our society for the better. Instead they choose to use that energy to prop up wholly compromised institutions like the FBI and Justice Department my problem with idiots, such as yourself, is assuming that People Can't Care About Two Things. this is a bad decision and part of the trump administrations' brazen attack on labor unions, but the biggest part of that attack is the recent Janus decision where it turns out that the first amendment requires right-to-work laws despite a century of precedent and the fact that argument is transparently nonsense, which is one of the reasons that i and many other ~resistance liberals~ to use your idiot phrase believe that it is absolutely necessary to pack the supreme court if we can regain full control in DC (and to abolish the filibuster, to pass that and other necessary bills to fix the country).
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Nov 9, 2018 18:23
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Dick Trauma posted:I've never seen photos like these before. I can easily picture Trump's supporters doing the same thing. “All it took was a few years of fierce, reckless, chauvinist, intolerant, expansionist, war-mongering propaganda to create enough hate to start the fighting among people who had lived together peacefully for 45 years. You must imagine a United States with every little TV station everywhere taking exactly the same editorial line — a line dictated by David Duke. You, too, would have war in five years.” - Milos Vasic talking about his fellow Serbs
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Nov 9, 2018 18:26
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Lemming posted:Protests aren't zero sum. There's no air being sucked out. It's not particularly effective on its own, sure, but it's not like the Women's March or the March for Science or whatever is tempting people away from joining antifa and smashing Nazis. Besides, normalizing marching and other direct action by even milquetoast liberals is a good thing, because it encourages people to do it more and get more involved. yeah, protests beget protests. if ~resistance liberals~ are convinced to protest mueller's firing, it is easier to get us to protest other things! you have made people more involved in trying to pressure their government to do the right thing, and recognize that it is doing the wrong thing!
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Nov 9, 2018 18:26
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Also, saying that the Mueller investigation will "lead to nothing" is a hell of a prediction.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:27
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So as someone who can take a subway to the sites where a lot of DC protests are, let me tell you. There’s no air being sucked out of anything. There’s plenty of air, and there’s time and energy for all of it. The Kremlin Annex protest has been going on for six months, every single night. We’ve had huge rallies every other month, and things hit a fever pitch with Kavanaugh. There’s plenty of energy for all of it, people care about multiple things at once, and there’s always another reason to get up and get out. The organizing effort of people on all levels - the suburban moms, the socialist left, the labor folks on the street - has been unreal. People really are making this world a better place, and they’re doing it without reward, without notice, but with tangible results. Log off, y’all. Log off and get back to the world. We need you out here.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:28
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evilweasel posted:which is one of the reasons that i and many other ~resistance liberals~ to use your idiot phrase believe that it is absolutely necessary to pack the supreme court if we can regain full control in DC (and to abolish the filibuster, to pass that and other necessary bills to fix the country). This has a 0% chance of happening under the current Democratic Party leadership
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Nov 9, 2018 18:28
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very cool AND normal people that love democracy. https://twitter.com/harrisalexc/status/1060938279212724224 https://twitter.com/harrisalexc/status/1060947551581544450
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Nov 9, 2018 18:29
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lizardman posted:I see this kind of naked, spiteful jealousy EVERYWHERE these days and it's baffling. Whenever someone does a good thing someone else runs in chiming "Don't give that person credit, because {unrelated bad thing or apparent lack of doing other unrelated good things}!" Like that person complaining at a gathering for the victims of the Orlando night club shooting in 2016 that people were there "for gay people" and not "for latinos". I'm not sure when it became de rigueur to do this kind of thing but it really is lovely. It's a legit criticism sometimes, given that (for example) Latinos are facing far more venom and actual oppression from the Trump administration than gay people are. Even within the LGBT community, there's occasionally strife resulting from the fact that trans people are still subject to far more unofficial and official discrimination than other groups. This kind of stuff goes back a long time. For example, many suffragettes were quite pissed at the Reconstruction Amendments, which guaranteed equal rights to all men regardless of color - but excluded all women regardless of color, sometimes explicitly. Some, like Susan B. Anthony, refused to support them unless women's right were addressed too. In the current context, I think it's mainly due to the media, who largely downplayed issue-based protests but are signal-boosting the Mueller protests, which are being organized by well-funded liberal groups. In addition, the talking heads and liberal totems in general have been pretty interested in Russia talk. That feeds a perception that the Mueller stuff carrying more weight among the people compared to other issues, even though it's mainly a misconception based on skewed media coverage.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:31
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KickerOfMice posted:Also, saying that the Mueller investigation will "lead to nothing" is a hell of a prediction. Trump won't be impeached or go to jail 
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Nov 9, 2018 18:31
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While it's an indisputable fact the Jill Stein is a simulacrum crafted from borscht and Russian caviar by the Soviet sorcerer corps of Czar Nicholas himself, we should not lose sight of the women ultimately responsible for Obama voters staying home and the Trump presidency. Susan Sarandon
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Nov 9, 2018 18:31
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https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1060942600994050048 Lol he is doubling down.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:31
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Groovelord Neato posted:very cool AND normal people that love democracy. Wow 40 protestors. How many protestors showed up at short notice at the Mueller rallies last night? 25,000?
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Nov 9, 2018 18:31
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Groovelord Neato posted:very cool AND normal people that love democracy. I, too, believe that Broward County is the part of Florida that's a banana republic.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:31
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So how long until Rick Scott goes Kent State on Florida election workers
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Nov 9, 2018 18:31
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Chomskyan posted:This has a 0% chance of happening under the current Democratic Party leadership Ok. Then let's shut up about everything and lie down and die, instead of both trying to push current leadership to do it and trying to get new leadership. In fact, doing both might have a synergistic effect. Or just do nothing because it's all hopeless, I guess. Your way seems good.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:31
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Chomskyan posted:Trump won't be impeached or go to jail Hell, I toxxed that he'd be voted out, dingus. 
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Nov 9, 2018 18:32
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1060942600994050048 Lol he is doubling down. how would this even.. what?
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Nov 9, 2018 18:32
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Hasn't the Mueller investigations already led to some indictments? Like Manafort, Papadopoulos, and Flynn? Claiming that the investigation won't do anything is ignoring what it has already done.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:32
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Can someone be very clear and reassure me that if a miracle comes to pass and either Nelson or Gillum turn out to have won their races on a recount, the state of Florida or the federal government can't just...say they didn't and ignore the results? I'm getting strong 2000 vibes except this time people might die.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:34
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https://twitter.com/flexlibris/status/1060722367587119105 Jeb!
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Nov 9, 2018 18:34
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An investigation that has led to the conviction of Trump's campaign manager on several Federal charges and means he will probably die in prison: "led to nothing" according to the brokebrains here lol
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Nov 9, 2018 18:34
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There's not like a finite amount of protest energy we have to use. In fact, I think protesting energizes people to protest MORE. Any time people are surrounded by like-minded people and they are involved in fighting whatever this administration is doing is a good thing.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:34
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1060942600994050048 Lol he is doubling down. Going against the conservative masses to own the...conservatives? Deified Data posted:Can someone be very clear and reassure me that if a miracle comes to pass and either Nelson or Gillum turn out to have won their races on a recount, the state of Florida or the federal government can't just...say they didn't and ignore the results? The federal government cant do anything, votes are certified on the state level. As far as the state goes, just tossing highly publicized votes would be lawsuit heaven
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Nov 9, 2018 18:35
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Nemo Somen posted:Hasn't the Mueller investigations already led to some indictments? Like Manafort, Papadopoulos, and Flynn? Claiming that the investigation won't do anything is ignoring what it has already done. I think people like Chomskyan mean that Trump, Pence, etc, probably won't be removed from office or face any jail time, which is likely true. That doesn't mean it won't hurt them or slow their agenda while in office, though, so I think the investigation's still worthwhile. Plus, uprooting corruption of this scale is pretty important under any circumstance.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:35
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KickerOfMice posted:Not that I think #resistance types (goofball facebook-only types) are doing anything very useful, but aren't the FBI and JD just vessels, and not things that can be indelibly corrupted? That largely depends on your conceptualization of the criminal justice system and the law enforcement community. For example, if you subscribe to the ideals of community oriented restorative justice by democratic organizations as apposed to a federal appointment-based institution that utilize imprisonment and have been used for political enforcement since their creation, then yeah, the FBI is fundamentally bad.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:35
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Ravenfood posted:Ok. Then let's shut up about everything and lie down and die, instead of both trying to push current leadership to do it and trying to get new leadership. In fact, doing both might have a synergistic effect. what an odd reaction to the pure statement of fact that the current leadership of the democratic party will not do such a thing. getting rid of a leadership that takes its marching orders from Literal Disembodied Spirits It Made Up would seem to be a more elegant solution, imo
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Nov 9, 2018 18:36
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Yinlock posted:To the financial elite, this is all just a game. They will immediately close ranks and form a united front if the rich might start facing consequences, outside of sacrificial lambs that have outlived their usefulness like Manafort. This usually results in the election of a fascist, since between socialism and nazis the wealthy will choose nazis 100% of the time. Obviously the recent election in Brazil and the imprisonment of Lula shows how the rich will resist reform, as is the media reaction to Corbyn's labour party leadership. However one of the most explicit examples of how capital will attack anything with even the smallest chance of threatening the status quo occurred after the Canadian province of Ontario elected the nominally socialist NDP in the 90s (a quick summary here): The Globe and Mail posted:The hidden history of Bob Rae's government in Ontario The Ontario NDP was no real threat to monied interests but even the most-watered down socialist govt faced a coordinated attack. They were completely knee-capped their entire term and consequently defeated by hardline Conservatives in the following election. America hasn't gotten to the point of electing ostensible a serious socialist govt. The real fight with the rich hasn't even begun.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:36
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CuddleCryptid posted:Going against the conservative masses to own the...conservatives? Yes, but to own the libs.
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Nov 9, 2018 18:36
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Chomskyan posted:This has a 0% chance of happening under the current Democratic Party leadership that is correct, as currently the Democratic Party leadership includes neither a President or a Majority Leader of the Senate. but as to the President, we will be having a primary to determine who should be put forward as our potential President, and that person will be the most important member of the Democratic Party for those questions because he or she will have the most power to set the agenda of the Democratic party. so we'll have to think hard about who the best nominee will be, and make sure they will be willing to do what needs to be done. hooray! we've figured it out!
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Nov 9, 2018 18:36
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Thaddius the Large posted:That largely depends on your conceptualization of the criminal justice system and the law enforcement community. For example, if you subscribe to the ideals of community oriented restorative justice by democratic organizations as apposed to a federal appointment-based institution that utilize imprisonment and have been used for political enforcement since their creation, then yeah, the FBI is fundamentally bad. Well, nobody mentioned the "corrections" industry! Also what I was saying is that it can change, so my conceptualization might be able to as well, hopefully for the better? KickerOfMice fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Nov 9, 2018 |
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Nov 9, 2018 18:37
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