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Do we have a word for the line of thinking that states "we need to keep doing the thing that has repeatedly failed in order to succeed?"
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Nov 10, 2018 05:54
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DoubleDonut posted:Do we have a word for the line of thinking that states "we need to keep doing the thing that has repeatedly failed in order to succeed?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n_1zsCVBxw
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Nov 10, 2018 05:58
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KingNastidon posted:Name one that you think would have been politically popular such that it would have resulted in political wins for the left/liberal Democratic party in 2010/2012. Given everything that you know now and how stupid/reactionary America is, not what you wish America could be. Seeing that this week deep red states like Arkansas and Missouri voted overwhelmingly to raise their minimum wages and Idaho, Utah, and Nebraska voted to expand Medicaid coverage (Montana didn't by 6% b/c it was tied to a cigarette tax increase), 'raise the minimum wage and medicare for all' seems like a simple, winning message that would have worked 6, 8 years ago too. If, in 2010/12, you also write off X amount of debt of wobbly homeowners (Iceland went with anything in excess of 110% of a property's value) while unleashing hell on financiers it's kind of hard to see how you lose. As to the broader question of Chapo and praxis I listen to the show 90+% for its comedy. I'd been hate-reading conservative sites for years when someone on Twitter posted a link to the 3rd episode - Freeway Ross Douthat Sailboat Dope - when it came out. Do you know how few 20-somethings know who Ross Douthat or Charles Krauthammer are? Much less know enough about them to clown on them? And they're the most prominent American columnists so you can just forget about the Baseball Crank (pbuh).
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Nov 10, 2018 06:00
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Chapo isn't praxis, getting your friends and your boss to listen to Chapo is.
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Nov 10, 2018 06:25
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SeersuckerSoldier posted:Seeing that this week deep red states like Arkansas and Missouri voted overwhelmingly to raise their minimum wages and Idaho, Utah, and Nebraska voted to expand Medicaid coverage (Montana didn't by 6% b/c it was tied to a cigarette tax increase), 'raise the minimum wage and medicare for all' seems like a simple, winning message that would have worked 6, 8 years ago too. If, in 2010/12, you also write off X amount of debt of wobbly homeowners (Iceland went with anything in excess of 110% of a property's value) while unleashing hell on financiers it's kind of hard to see how you lose. The minimum wage proposal must be a joke. Find me any published economist or especially politician advocating for higher labor costs during a depression and 10% unemployment. In regards to mortgage relief, you're more on point. But given how many bad mortgages were given to undeserving folk (not their fault, but low credit+equity) there would have been massive middle class grief at these people being given a government handout. We already know the base case moderate/conservative revisionist history. Obama doubled the deficit while overseeing a tepid recover. While increasing racial division! If you think Trump occurred in part due to that backlash, what would those policies have done?
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Nov 10, 2018 06:40
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If there's two groups of people who are honest and correct about how economic policies work, it's politicians and published economists The left can't win because they can only explain their policies using spreadsheets. Now, I DEMAND you show me a published economist who can prove what you're saying
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Nov 10, 2018 06:45
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KingNastidon posted:We already know the base case moderate/conservative revisionist history. Obama doubled the deficit while overseeing a tepid recover. While increasing racial division! If you think Trump occurred in part due to that backlash, what would those policies have done?
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Nov 10, 2018 06:47
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KingNastidon posted:The minimum wage proposal must be a joke. Find me any published economist or especially politician advocating for higher labor costs during a depression and 10% unemployment. "I'm such a leftist, but the minimum wage is too high" might be peak wonk-donk bullshit. Go submit to daddy trump like you want to you sniveling twit.
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Nov 10, 2018 06:48
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KingNastidon posted:I enjoy Chapo a lot, but that doesn't require making GBS threads on PSA or mainstream liberalism at every opportunity. It absolutely 100% does.
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Nov 10, 2018 06:53
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Rhesus Pieces posted:It absolutely 100% does. That's legit the whole appeal of the show in the first place.
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Nov 10, 2018 07:00
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And it isn’t the duty of the podcast to get anyone elected or to appeal to any voters. It’s a comedy podcast, not political praxis. They’ve made this clear several times already.
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Nov 10, 2018 07:06
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KingNastidon posted:The minimum wage proposal must be a joke. Find me any published economist or especially politician advocating for higher labor costs during a depression and 10% unemployment. Keynes, for a start. you imbecile. you loving cretin
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Nov 10, 2018 07:17
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"Hello fellow leftists all this talk of a living wage is nuts, right?"
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Nov 10, 2018 07:25
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KingNastidon posted:The minimum wage proposal must be a joke. Find me any published economist or especially politician advocating for higher labor costs during a depression and 10% unemployment. KingNastidon go on PSA
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Nov 10, 2018 12:42
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Can't believe hillary is posting in this very thread, and you're all being so rude to her
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Nov 10, 2018 13:43
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KingNastidon posted:The minimum wage proposal must be a joke. Find me any published economist or especially politician advocating for higher labor costs during a depression and 10% unemployment. The guy who pops in here to talk about the Daily Shoah is officially more leftist than you.
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Nov 10, 2018 15:02
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KingNastidon posted:published economist Matt Christman had some advice on Tuesday's livestream that I think you should consider.
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Nov 10, 2018 15:11
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Breadallelogram posted:Matt Christman had some advice on Tuesday's livestream that I think you should consider. lol
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Nov 10, 2018 15:21
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KingNastidon posted:The minimum wage proposal must be a joke. Find me any published economist or especially politician advocating for higher labor costs during a depression and 10% unemployment. lol way to show your rear end
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Nov 10, 2018 15:34
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T-man posted:Chapo isn't praxis, getting your friends to listen to Chapo and killing your boss is.
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Nov 10, 2018 15:48
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T-man posted:I don't give a poo poo about Chapo, or really any particular person or group. I just want the world to stop sucking more than it has to. I studied philosophy for years to make the world a better place, and all I really want is to wait out the universe and die stoned, fed, and housed. There is no ethics, no standards, nothing beyond the stupid absurdity of life. So let's make that life better for every other rear end in a top hat. Great, me too. I'm responding to the people who are saying if I personally find one aspect of Chapo obnoxious then I must be some neoliberal bore.
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Nov 10, 2018 15:49
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i don't introduce my liberal coworkers to chapo. i generally just skip straight to marx because he makes a lot of sense to people who have lovely lives
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Nov 10, 2018 16:04
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I don’t introduce people to Chapo because the people I know IRL aren’t terminally online
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Nov 10, 2018 16:17
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Human Tornada posted:Great, me too. It’s a pretty common liberal tell to focus on individual personality traits at the expense of the message.
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Nov 10, 2018 16:23
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Henchman of Santa posted:I don’t introduce people to Chapo because the people I know IRL aren’t terminally online
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Nov 10, 2018 18:03
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Serf posted:i don't introduce my liberal coworkers to chapo. i generally just skip straight to marx because he makes a lot of sense to people who have lovely lives lol
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Nov 10, 2018 18:11
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feel like this podcast full of people making jokes would be inaccessible, so i recommend philosophy tracts from 200 years ago instead
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Nov 10, 2018 18:12
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Kobayashi posted:It’s a pretty common liberal tell to focus on individual personality traits at the expense of the message. Ah dang, ya caught me. I accidentally gave myself away by having an opinion about somebody's personality. When did I say anything about his personality turning me away from the message? I didn't say Matt should apologize, or be more decorous for the good of the cause, or start wringing his hand in despair, just that I'm personally turned off by him sometimes. Why this is a crime that makes me some kind of liberal poser I can't really figure out. Human Tornada fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Nov 10, 2018 |
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Nov 10, 2018 18:34
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Matt needs to keep getting wasted so threads can have moral panics about poo poo no one cares about
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Nov 10, 2018 19:36
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Human Tornada posted:Ah dang, ya caught me. I accidentally gave myself away by having an opinion about somebody's personality. You're taking this poo poo way too seriously.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:32
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I have been owned, good day to you. *tips fedora* This sure is my kinda thread. How often do we get to dogpile on closet republicans?
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Nov 10, 2018 23:15
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Phone posted:lol way to show your rear end Proposing a higher minimum wage at a time of full employment (2018) with high demand/low supply of labor is a tad different than proposing a higher minimum wage at 10% unemployment (2010) with low demand/high supply of labor. Yes, Keynes would argue that maintaining or increasing wages during a depression/recession would aid in recovery. But that belief is predicated on short-term government spending or policy temporarily supporting that wage level by increased demand. Private sector companies are not going to both maintain constant employment and increase wages during a period of low/decreasing demand if driven by individual self interest and profitability. Increasing minimum wage in 2018 is different and more palatable to individual businesses because we do not have decreasing demand nor a labor surplus. Please share examples of of economists or policy experts recommending higher private sector wages in 2010 in isolation of concurrent government spending to be comparable with the 2018 legislation. I think people are conflating the validity/worth of moderate PSA liberal policies with the need to keep those people onboard as the liberal/left platform rightly moves more left. Immediately adopting the dream wish list of the left will result in energizing the base and persuading some current moderates/conservatives to come over. And I'd agree it's a winning strategy vs. status quo democratic party politics. But we shouldn't pretend that there's zero risk of overstepping and causing enough current democratic voters to defect and offset gains.
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Nov 10, 2018 23:48
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KingNastidon posted:Proposing a higher minimum wage at a time of full employment (2018) with high demand/low supply of labor is a tad different than proposing a higher minimum wage at 10% unemployment (2010) with low demand/high supply of labor. Yes, Keynes would argue that maintaining or increasing wages during a depression/recession would aid in recovery. But that belief is predicated on short-term government spending or policy temporarily supporting that wage level by increased demand. And this has what to do with Chapo exactly?
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Nov 11, 2018 00:53
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KingNastidon posted:Proposing a higher minimum wage at a time of full employment (2018) with high demand/low supply of labor is a tad different than proposing a higher minimum wage at 10% unemployment (2010) with low demand/high supply of labor. Yes, Keynes would argue that maintaining or increasing wages during a depression/recession would aid in recovery. But that belief is predicated on short-term government spending or policy temporarily supporting that wage level by increased demand. supply and demand when it comes to the labor market is 100% bullshit. capital holds all of the power and pretending to assume otherwise is engaging in the same sort of fantasy that "trickle down economics" is a real thing. on the incredibly low chance you are actually engaging in something that resembles good faith, go punch in mark blyth or richard wolff or something into youtube before you start spouting off "economists agree that minimum wage increasing is bad".
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Nov 11, 2018 01:04
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Rhesus Pieces posted:And this has what to do with Chapo exactly? Spawned from someone dismissiveely telling someone else to go listen to PSA because they didn't adhere to every tenet of internet socialism. But agree it's not the place, so I'll end. Phone: Higher minimum wages are good. Labor taking in a higher proportion of profits are good. Magically thinking that individual actors in the private sector are going to raise labor costs during a recession and/or increasing minimum wages without increased demand via government stimulus is bad. KingNastidon fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 01:07
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little munchkin posted:feel like this podcast full of people making jokes would be inaccessible, so i recommend philosophy tracts from 200 years ago instead nah, reading's for suckers. you just slip it into conversation like a normal person
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Nov 11, 2018 01:20
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Lol
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Nov 11, 2018 01:49
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This coffee is poo poo. By the way, have you heard of the labor theory of value?
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Nov 11, 2018 01:50
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Is it really that difficult to translate Marx or socialist philosophy/economics into accessible language, or does nobody want to do it for some reason? Capitalists: Socialism: Follow Stav’s advice and make Socialism For Dumb People
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Nov 11, 2018 02:08
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Rhesus Pieces posted:
For all the smart people they've had on the show, it's honestly the best idea I've ever heard on there
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Nov 11, 2018 02:12
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