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Lote posted:Seriously. If the candidate you wanted loses, you should be able to be an adult and vote for the candidate that will be most likely to advance your interests and not act like a child and take your ball and go home. you know republicans literally never talk like this to their base? if their candidate loses they decide they obviously didn't appeal to enough of their base and they need to double down. seems to work pretty well for them. the only ones who call people children for not voting for a candidate they don't like are democrats. like seriously i don't even disagree that you should vote in the general if your primary candidate doesn't win, but the sheer condescension you guys have for unenthusiastic voters who might not want to vote for a candidate is staggering. you guys know it's not the voters job to vote for a party, right? the party is the one who bears the burden of appealing to the voters?
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Nov 10, 2018 17:47
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evilweasel posted:the "other side" agrees that if you win the primary, you get the nomination. so if you want to "seize it", get the votes! As usual, you are addressing the post you wish I had made, rather than the one which is there
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Nov 10, 2018 17:47
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Chomskyan posted:True. But are we even on agreement that this is the action we should take? I think the Democratic Party should be seized by the left, but does the "other side", which constantly whines about "SchumerBad PelosiBad" chat agree? My impression is no your impression is wrong
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Nov 10, 2018 17:48
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plogo posted:No it wasn't. There were always many dem proposals to healthcare going back to the days of ted kennedy fighting with jimmy carter. Oh, word? They must have worked out great, because of all that awesome healthcare we have. You're discounting my argument to make a cheap technicality own. I'm trying to explain why it's important to talk about stuff like UBI now, and you're saying "well we've been talking about healthcare for a long time" yes thank you for proving my point.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:48
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Wonder what Pelosi and Schumer sincerely think about AOC since didn't she completely obliterate the guy dem leadership was specifically grooming to succeed them?
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Nov 10, 2018 17:48
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plogo posted:No it wasn't. There were always many dem proposals to healthcare going back to the days of ted kennedy fighting with jimmy carter. Hell, the Dems have talking about single payer since loving Truman. FDR considered it for inclusion in the New Deal, even. Personally, I think the real issue most people are avoiding is that Trump isn't the problem - he's a symptom, just another product of the overall social and political collapse in this country. The problem is deeper than electoral politics.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:48
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Chomskyan posted:If George W. Bush is running against Donald Trump as a Democrat I will vote for him. Why? Because I'm just that principled. Hmm...If only there was some sort of process that allowed people to determine who gets to be the nominee...Oh, well. I guess, we'll just have to accept the unilateral decision imposed by the almighty DNC, the composition of which party members also don't have any control over.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:48
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:And this is why nothing ever changes No, idiot, the reason things never change is not "because people oppose fascism."
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Nov 10, 2018 17:49
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Chomskyan posted:As usual, you are addressing the post you wish I had made, rather than the one which is there i apologize, your posts are usually too stupid to fully parse and i apologize for interpreting it in a way that made sense. what was your actual, dumber, question? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2018 17:49
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StealthArcher posted:If your worthless DNC shoves Hillary 3: It's Her Turn Again Again up, I'm going to laugh as I prepare for you to inevitably go fasc either immediately after her loss or 4 years later if she ekes out a win. I'm then going to die in a ditch somewhere because that's the inevitable result of a Fascist USA. If Hillary wins we'll go fascist immediately, because Hillary is a lying white supremacist war hawk out of a Paul Verhoeven movie. I'm tired of this idea that somehow competent, smooth, practiced evil is better than an open pedophile with a sub 80 iq. They're both really bad and no one should support either type of person.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:49
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Horseshoe theory posted:Technically speaking, Trump probably advances my personal interests more than virtually any Democratic candidate, but I will never vote for him or the GOP. There is literally no one in America who this applies to.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:50
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evilweasel posted:the "other side" agrees that if you win the primary, you get the nomination. so if you want to "seize it", get the votes! if you support someone more leftist than the person I supported in the 2020 primary, and they win, i'll be voting for them! the centrists are going to rig the primary in 2020 and give joe biden the nom
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Nov 10, 2018 17:50
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Calaveron posted:Wonder what Pelosi and Schumer sincerely think about AOC since didn't she completely obliterate the guy dem leadership was specifically grooming to succeed them? I'm sure that Schumer probably hates her since he's from the same state and presumably political machine. Pelosi I imagine may not care much since she's not long for Congress and has bigger fish to fry than petty New York squabbles, though I'm sure it annoys her that her designated successor is toast.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:50
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Calaveron posted:Wonder what Pelosi and Schumer sincerely think about AOC since didn't she completely obliterate the guy dem leadership was specifically grooming to succeed them? Quite handily.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:50
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corn in the bible posted:the centrists are going to rig the primary in 2020 and give joe biden the nom Okay. And you're basing this observation on what, exactly?
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Nov 10, 2018 17:51
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Stexils posted:you know republicans literally never talk like this to their base? if their candidate loses they decide they obviously didn't appeal to enough of their base and they need to double down. seems to work pretty well for them. the only ones who call people children for not voting for a candidate they don't like are democrats. And then they'll fall over themselves saying we need to 'moderate the message' to appeal to 'moderate Republicans'. Though it's maybe a slight improvement over 2016's 'we don't need your stupid Bernie Bro votes anyway'.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:51
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The Dems are lovely in part because nobody participates in primaries, so the primary electorate is unrepresentative old centrist grampas and random wierdos. Lefty policy polls high in the US but those people largely don't vote in primaries so it doesn't actually matter. The primary fights are de facto fights over what the party even is. If you bitch about Dems while ignoring primaries you are literally embodying the root cause of what you're complaining about. Once that's over then you're left with the more nazi or less nazi choices in the general, and if you can't tell them apart you're a huge rear end in a top hat.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:52
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Your Parents posted:If Hillary wins we'll go fascist immediately, because Hillary is a lying white supremacist war hawk out of a Paul Verhoeven movie. I'm tired of this idea that somehow competent, smooth, practiced evil is better than an open pedophile with a sub 80 iq. They're both really bad and no one should support either type of person. Because smooth practiced evil understands things like nuance and soft power, and doesn't just decide to just burn the whole loving house down with everyone in it.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:52
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Lightning Knight posted:I'm sure that Schumer probably hates her since he's from the same state and presumably political machine. Pelosi I imagine may not care much since she's not long for Congress and has bigger fish to fry than petty New York squabbles, though I'm sure it annoys her that her designated successor is toast. Pelosi cares about winning. If AOC is a winner then that's probably good enough for her.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:52
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Calaveron posted:Wonder what Pelosi and Schumer sincerely think about AOC since didn't she completely obliterate the guy dem leadership was specifically grooming to succeed them? she beat him in the primary and then he actually ran as an independent so she could beat a second time in the general lol
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Nov 10, 2018 17:53
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corn in the bible posted:the centrists are going to rig the primary in 2020 and give joe biden the nom You should defend this statement or I'm treating it as a toxx.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:53
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Hmm...If only there was some sort of process that allowed people to determine who gets to be the nominee...Oh, well. I guess, we'll just have to accept the unilateral decision imposed by the almighty DNC, the composition of which party members also don't have any control over. I guess it's controversial to point out the Democratic primary is uh, not especially democratic
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Nov 10, 2018 17:53
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Lightning Knight posted:I'm sure that Schumer probably hates her since he's from the same state and presumably political machine. Pelosi I imagine may not care much since she's not long for Congress and has bigger fish to fry than petty New York squabbles, though I'm sure it annoys her that her designated successor is toast. Note, however, that Boehner's relationship with both Cantor and Ryan was... fraught. It's possible she hated Crowley. Or maybe they were buddies! I dunno! The more immediate issue imo is the stuff I touched on in my AOC tactical post, where she might get annoyed with AOC centering herself despite being a freshman / pushing her to do stuff she donwanna / putting her in an unpalatable position for one reason or another / maybe not giving her a courtesy call in advance of that statement / etc. All of which can be worked around or avoided, potentially.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:54
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Lightning Knight posted:You should defend this statement or I'm treating it as a toxx. The fuckery in the primaries last time is well documented and he's the most corporate centrist guy around right now. Why wouldn't that happen again this time?
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Nov 10, 2018 17:54
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sean10mm posted:The Dems are lovely in part because nobody participates in primaries, so the primary electorate is unrepresentative old centrist grampas and random wierdos. Lefty policy polls high in the US but those people largely don't vote in primaries so it doesn't actually matter. The most likely Dem primary voter is a Black Woman from the south...
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Nov 10, 2018 17:54
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I tend to forget that Obama only won the delegate count in 2008, meaning Hillary got more votes and lost the primary.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:55
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corn in the bible posted:she beat him in the primary and then he actually ran as an independent so she could beat a second time in the general lol That's a misrepresentation of what happened. Crowley didn't campaign for the seat, and you know this.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:55
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corn in the bible posted:The fuckery in the primaries last time is well documented and he's the most corporate centrist guy around right now. Why wouldn't that happen again this time? Oh I'm sure the DNC would love to try and gently caress around as they did last time, I just think your idea that specifically Joe Biden is going to definitely win in a primary field of 20+ mostly establishment candidates is laughable, cheating or no cheating.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:56
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:That's a misrepresentation of what happened. Crowley didn't campaign for the seat, and you know this. I actually do know that, but it's still funny
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Nov 10, 2018 17:56
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Grammarchist posted:I tend to forget that Obama only won the delegate count in 2008, meaning Hillary got more votes and lost the primary. fuckin' centrists, rigging the primary for their preferred candidate
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Nov 10, 2018 17:56
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corn in the bible posted:The fuckery in the primaries last time is well documented and he's the most corporate centrist guy around right now. Why wouldn't that happen again this time? Hillary won the majority of regular delegates, no?
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Nov 10, 2018 17:56
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Stereotype posted:But “electrical lines making sparks” isn’t the cause of the wildfire epidemic, it is “drastically reduced moisture content with much more frequent dry wind storms”. One news story said that PG&E's infrastructure has been responsible for at least 15 of this year's fires. (Relatedly: That story or another story mentioned that gov.-elect Newsom had called a state of emergency, which sounded weird. Isn't Jerry Brown still the gov. till Newsom's sworn in? Is Brown out of the country or something?)
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Nov 10, 2018 17:57
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:Okay. And you're basing this observation on what, exactly? On the same idea that Joe Crowley was going to ratfuck his way into winning the election on Tuesday, and then he didn't like every sane person predicted.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:57
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corn in the bible posted:I actually do know that, but it's still funny posting things i know are objectively false in a totally non-joking way for the lols
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Nov 10, 2018 17:57
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corn in the bible posted:The fuckery in the primaries last time is well documented and he's the most corporate centrist guy around right now. Why wouldn't that happen again this time? You're forgetting Corey "Don't be so mean to Bain Capital" Booker. Willa Rogers posted:One news story said that PG&E's infrastructure has been responsible for at least 15 of this year's fires. Newsom is acting gov whenever Brown is out of state. I don't know where Brown is right now but he's not in state.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:57
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Stexils posted:you know republicans literally never talk like this to their base? if their candidate loses they decide they obviously didn't appeal to enough of their base and they need to double down. seems to work pretty well for them. the only ones who call people children for not voting for a candidate they don't like are democrats. I’m talking specifically about people who support a Dem candidate in the primary and when that person doesn’t get nominated, not voting in the general, protest voting, or worse, voting for accelerationism. There were the PUMAs in 2008, Bernie supporters in 2016 that refused to vote for Obama and Hillary. The party will appeal to you if enough like minded people vote in the primary.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:58
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WampaLord posted:Oh, word? They must have worked out great, because of all that awesome healthcare we have. So why should AOC care about the distinction between UBI and a Federal Jobs Guarantee, right now? It doesn't matter so why pick a policy position between two broadly similar policies that aren't gonna happen? Don't get me wrong- I'm separating this from the policy debate,. I enjoy economics and debating the policy, but that's not really what this about.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:58
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:That's a misrepresentation of what happened. Crowley didn't campaign for the seat, and you know this. Crowley could have removed himself from the ballot with a phone call or email and refused so that he could act as a spoiler.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:59
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eke out posted:posting things i know are objectively false for the lols I think Crowley would've tried for the ratfuck if he hadn't been called out early and very publicly for trying to stay on the ballot sneakily, and it is naive to think there wasn't something fishy going on there. He should've dropped out gracefully when he lost the primary and that he didn't is a douchey thing.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:59
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Calaveron posted:Wonder what Pelosi and Schumer sincerely think about AOC since didn't she completely obliterate the guy dem leadership was specifically grooming to succeed them? Pelosi made some effort to distance herself and the Dems from AOC's positions and leftism, but she usually avoids commenting on people in particular or taking sides in order to preserve the "big tent" image Dem leadership seems to prefer, so that's probably the most we're going to get from her.
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Nov 10, 2018 18:00
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