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Thalantos posted:Obama barely even tried. I remember those days. Obama and the entire Democratic party sweated blood over passing Obamacare. They didn't just turn up and go "Eh" and do the bare minimum. The Republicans fought them tooth and nail, and spread the vilest propaganda. But I guess, Democrats are a Waste, huh?
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Nov 10, 2018 19:02
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Z. Autobahn posted:Just FYI for anyone else unhappy with the loss of the Trump thread, I PMed KM and had a really productive conversation about it; there’s a lot of nuance I was missing. the problem with the trump thread was that it really wasn't the trump thread. it was uspol, but only certain viewpoints were allowed stifling debate and discussion in debate & discussion doesn't really make a lot of sense
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Nov 10, 2018 19:02
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BarbarianElephant posted:I remember those days. Obama and the entire Democratic party sweated blood over passing Obamacare. They didn't just turn up and go "Eh" and do the bare minimum. The Republicans fought them tooth and nail, and spread the vilest propaganda. they went with a republican compromise after republicans refused to support the republican compromise so yeah
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Nov 10, 2018 19:03
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BarbarianElephant posted:"Just" grow a loving spine dude
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Nov 10, 2018 19:04
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GreyjoyBastard posted:People love these things after they pass and kick in. The screaming babies step is what happens between those. but don't you get it republicans might be mad therefore it is necessary to not even try
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Nov 10, 2018 19:05
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Lightning Knight posted:I don't necessarily disagree with doing these things but didn't Bernie do better in caucuses? Or am I misremembering? Obama nailed the caucuses, too. The problem with eradicating them is that states control the primary process (and running a caucus is far cheaper than running a primary election) so the best the DNC can do is "encourage" states to allow caucus voters to not have to be actually present to participate (ie, vote by mail) and other mechanisms that don't exclude voters.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:05
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BarbarianElephant posted:I remember those days. Obama and the entire Democratic party sweated blood over passing Obamacare. They didn't just turn up and go "Eh" and do the bare minimum. The Republicans fought them tooth and nail, and spread the vilest propaganda. also in hindsight they should have blown up the filibuster but we hadn't had six years of total obstructionism yet
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Nov 10, 2018 19:05
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Was the whole purpose of Trump's trip supposed to be the commemoration of this armistice or something else?
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Nov 10, 2018 19:05
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Z. Autobahn posted:Just FYI for anyone else unhappy with the loss of the Trump thread, I PMed KM and had a really productive conversation about it; there’s a lot of nuance I was missing. Any chance you want to fill in the rest of the class on it? Because this thread is literally back to talking about dems are a waste, protest voting for trump and the evils of obama.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:05
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BarbarianElephant posted:I remember those days. Obama and the entire Democratic party sweated blood over passing Obamacare. They didn't just turn up and go "Eh" and do the bare minimum. The Republicans fought them tooth and nail, and spread the vilest propaganda. pop quiz: what was their express stance on a public option, as of moment one, and for what reason you'll laugh when you hear the answer. it's really funny.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:06
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Wicked Them Beats posted:lol yeah just burning the state to the ground and costing ourselves millions in property damage for them sweet fed bux Doesn’t help that GOP expats and shills like Victor Davis Hanson insist it has failed because why else are so many people moving out?
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Nov 10, 2018 19:06
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Zwabu posted:Was the whole purpose of Trump's trip supposed to be the commemoration of this armistice or something else? Yeah. 100 year anniversary of signing of the armistice.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:06
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TulliusCicero posted:What an absolute lazy, revolting piece of poo poo. Like I think we glorify "ARE TRUPS" wayyyy too much in this country, but for gently caress sakes, it is Armistice/ Veterans Day. Now is the time for memorial. Most of the American war dead there were Marines as well. The battle there is one of the Corps foundational stories. Mathis must be seething.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:07
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BarbarianElephant posted:I remember those days. Obama and the entire Democratic party sweated blood over passing Obamacare. They didn't just turn up and go "Eh" and do the bare minimum. The Republicans fought them tooth and nail, and spread the vilest propaganda. Obama is a great, stirring orator when he choose to. Why didn't he get up and make stirring speeches about the need for better health care? Why did he disband a nationwide network of passionate, experienced activists? Why didn't he stump the country for it? They only barely got what they got, because they began, publicly, as if they were aiming for a compromise position that was a literal republican policy platform in the 90s.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:08
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:pop quiz: what was their express stance on a public option, as of moment one, and for what reason Anyone remember the Blue Dogs and Joe Lieberman?
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Nov 10, 2018 19:09
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Willa Rogers posted:Obama nailed the caucuses, too. I'm not sure I follow. I am not being sarcastic, I am genuinely confused. Ease up on the shitposting a little bit please.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:09
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TulliusCicero posted:What an absolute lazy, revolting piece of poo poo. Like I think we glorify "ARE TRUPS" wayyyy too much in this country, but for gently caress sakes, it is Armistice/ Veterans Day. Now is the time for memorial. Unfortunately most Americans don’t understand just how horrifying WWI was. Compared to WWII, the coverage in school is fractional. Only recently when I went through Dan Carlin’s podcast did it really hit me- Verdun, Passchendaele, Somme- just unimaginable.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:09
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corn in the bible posted:Also I think the fact that the GOP repealed part of it which immediately resulted in higher premiums but no actual benefit to anyone, might have helped  Actually, because of the convoluted affordability mechanism based on the second lowest-cost silver plan the 2018 plans were much better bang for the buck because of the cost-sharing funding being withheld. (Many gold plans were the same price as silver plans, e.g., and bronze plans cost next-to-nothing.)And the 2019 pricing for most exchange plans is surprisingly good for folks with subsidies, because the insurers who stayed in the marketplace have fine-tuned their pricing by this point. Given the removal of the mandate penalty for 2019 and beyond, I was pretty surprised by this.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:09
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DreamingofRoses posted:Anyone remember the Blue Dogs and Joe Lieberman? that's the line that came later, friend. what was the express rationale, at the time, for refusing to even bring up the subject. seriously. it's amazingly funny.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:10
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:that's the line that came later, friend. what was the express rationale, at the time, for refusing to even bring up the subject. I mean the fact that they didn't have the votes for it seems like a pretty good reason not to pursue futile policy
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Nov 10, 2018 19:12
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oh, if anyone was expecting macron to stand up to trump, well... https://twitter.com/EmmanuelMacron/status/1061270336635916289 "Donald Trump and I have decided to work together to stabilize the middle-east, which will have a positive effect on the price of oil."
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Nov 10, 2018 19:12
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want to hear a joke? "If we promise insurance companies there's no chance of a public option being implemented, they'll have to support the legislation afterwards! Because it's a sensible compromise between our positions!" the punchline is the last nine years
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Nov 10, 2018 19:12
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Willa Rogers posted:
My husband is self-employed and has an unsubsidized Obamacare plan. My work only insures me. It would cost more to buy into my plan for him than it does to just pay for an Obamacare plan (even though it is still stupid expensive.) Self-employed people and the poor do best out of exchange plans. People who get insurance through work don't give a poo poo, I guess, because it's not Full Communism Now.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:14
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Condiv posted:oh, if anyone was expecting macron to stand up to trump, well... who would expect a quisling to stand up to a fascist?
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Nov 10, 2018 19:14
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OhDearGodNo posted:Unfortunately most Americans don’t understand just how horrifying WWI was. Compared to WWII, the coverage in school is fractional. It's weird to go to australia where no one really cared a ton about world war II and everything is super super still into world war I instead. Like all the monuments and songs and stuff are about Gallipoli, instead of D-day or something like the US is.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:14
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:want to hear a joke? I mean, when the votes you have are bought by the insurance lobbyists, you do what you can with what you have at the time.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:14
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Condiv posted:oh, if anyone was expecting macron to stand up to trump, well... Saying the quiet part loud is apparently a running theme lately.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:15
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:pop quiz: what was their express stance on a public option, as of moment one, and for what reason That it was in the house bill? But facts are fickle things I suppose.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:15
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Willa Rogers posted:
Serious question, are you joke posting here? It reads like a parody of technocratic neoliberalism. Fwiw, how about this? I'm a veteran, I have two jobs. I own my own business. I have to go to the VA for health care and my wife just doesn't go to the doctor because it's too expensive, seriously, the cheapest plans we could get cost a ton, and even tho we could eke out paying them, even with them, actually going to the doctor is too expensive, so why bother getting it? You can argue about how it was supposed to have done, and how it has helped folks (because it absolutely has), but, please, stop acting like the ACA was a good thing....because it really hasn't, and has actually made life worse for a lot of people are being marginalized.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:16
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Condiv posted:oh, if anyone was expecting macron to stand up to trump, well... loving white people and oil.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:16
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Pakled posted:I mean the fact that they didn't have the votes for it seems like a pretty good reason not to pursue futile policy moving your starting position right before you even make it to the negotiating table: good strategy or best strategy it's one of the other grim bits of entertainment in the whole mess. There were measures proposed to automatically register to vote if you were using the ACA. republicans complained. thankfully, the republican votes gained by instantly knuckling under at this complaint allowed us to pass it bipartisanly oh wait, poo poo, the opposite of that happened, that was traded away in exchange for Literally Nothing.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:16
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BarbarianElephant posted:They didn't have a choice between holding out for a better deal, or passing a watered-down agreement now. They had the choice of passing an imperfect compromise that allowed for improvements later, or NOTHING. Sorry but the Democrats don't deserve a hall pass on literally doing loving anything for the next 20 years. It would be one thing if we lived in a reality where the majority of the country was not in favor of Medicare for All, but we live in one where the even the majority of the Republicans want M4A. It would be another if in response to this, that Democratic leadership was advocating for M4A instead of resisting a push for it from an insurgent left fringe. Democrats would rather negotiate around the edges and float mush mouthed, meaningless poo poo like Medicare Extra. By the measure of their actions, the Democrats got exactly what they wanted and that's the core of the problem.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:17
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Condiv posted:oh, if anyone was expecting macron to stand up to trump, well... But oil is now at the lowest level in 2 years. Should it go lower?
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Nov 10, 2018 19:18
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Mooseontheloose posted:That it was in the house bill? But facts are fickle things I suppose. yup. and the house repealed Obamacare several dozen times while Obama was President. the pragmatic understanding of How Government Works just sort of comes and goes, does it?
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Nov 10, 2018 19:19
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Pakled posted:I mean the fact that they didn't have the votes for it seems like a pretty good reason not to pursue futile policy Folks here seem to think that if only the Democrats had BELIEVED in themselves enough the Republicans would have had no choice but to pass UHC. I blame children's TV for giving people unrealistic expectations about what genuine passion and self-belief in a just cause can achieve against the odds. In children's TV they are contractually obligated to write a happy ending. Alternate reality post from D&D in a world where you guys got your wish: "Democrats SUCK. They had the chance to reform healthcare but they wasted it arguing with loving Lieberman about socialism. loving Democrats can't run a piss-up in a brewery. It would have been absurdly simple to just make insurance compulsory and subsidized, which would have been a good first step at least. But they were too drat lazy."
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Nov 10, 2018 19:20
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BarbarianElephant posted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnFjAkAs_q4
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Nov 10, 2018 19:21
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:yup. and the house repealed Obamacare several dozen times while Obama was President. I mean you are literally making up the idea that the public option wasn't supported by the house or most of the Senate caucus but unfortunate political realities got in the way. They didn't have the votes to move the bill with public option so they had to go another route. Sorry it takes away from the Dems are bad narrative but it's just factually wrong.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:21
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yeah you can make the argument that obama pushed what he could and that he wasn't able to push more leftist policy because he didn't have the votes but the fact that obama showed himself a corporate dem in lots of other ways (passing a bunch of tax cuts in the stimulus plan as a sop to republicans who then didn't vote for it, bailing out the banks string-free) leaves the overall impression that either the bill was exactly the kind of result he wanted from the start or that we could have gotten something way better if someone who was a better negotiator had been pushing for it
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Nov 10, 2018 19:22
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Lote posted:But oil is now at the lowest level in 2 years. Should it go lower? All about seriously destroy those us oil jobs and also all other fossil fuel jobs please
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Nov 10, 2018 19:22
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BarbarianElephant posted:Folks here seem to think that if only the Democrats had BELIEVED in themselves enough the Republicans would have had no choice but to pass UHC. your masturbatory fanfiction is your own business, imo (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 10, 2018 19:22
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