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pakman posted:I have a lot of Shine Bugs. Seriously plan out a way to grab all the metal from the copper volcano in batches. Don't worry about keeping regular access, the heat is too much to manage easily, but plan around punching the wall, grabbing all the metal, and dunking it in something cold every 200 cycles or so. In my base mentioned earlier/below I got over 100 tons of refined gold from one over the 500 cycles and its let me do everything I can possibly think of with literally no concern about metal or heat related to those processes. It owns so god drat much. On another note: RAISE GLOSSY DRECKOS.  I set this up after realizing I had a very good stable area to do so and a bunch of extra hydrogen, and I now also realize that glossy dreckos produce a loving comical amount of plastic once the setup is pretty well along. Glossy drecko eggs come from regular dreckos who eat mealwood (the plants, not actual mealwood, it needs to be grown in the stable). They grow 150kg of plastic on their backs when in hydrogen, and its only a 3 day growing cycle so long as they stay in that hydrogen as much as possible. 2-3 mealwood plants per drecko and they are a completely sustainable, easy to manage source of plastic. Eating has nothing to do with the plastic either, that's the phosphorite, so you really don't even have to worry about feeding them if you don't want. I have 15 currently, have replaced nearly all the ladders in my entire setup, gave all 14 dupes comfy beds, placed some high pressure vents, and I'm still gaining like half a ton per cycle, with none of the infrastructure needs related to plastic machines. EDIT: Cool slush geysers may also be a little too good: 
Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Nov 10, 2018 |
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Nov 10, 2018 18:44
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Eh, plastic is a total non-issue and pretty easy to manufacture, since it requires very little setup and no labor. Unlike glossy deckos, which need to be sheared regularly.
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Nov 10, 2018 19:48
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I would mostly agree but you can get glossy dreckos set up before ever really stepping foot outside the starting area assuming you have a nearby drecko. That early plastic lets you make high pressure vents and such before venturing all the way down to oil and pumping it up, then refining it, then making plastic and dealing with the excess heat those multiple steps make. Also no refined metal involved period for what that's worth early. You can train ranchers and then move them to other jobs so dudes just hit them as the shearer requests the job without ever interfering with many other tasks. I greatly prefer the slight loss of dupe time (all my ranches are in a line and I have like 45 animals, so my ranchers are there a lot) to the much larger footprint, but I can understand if you prefer the opposite. I'm very slow to work my way down to the oil biome since I tend to strip mine large chunks of the asteroid so the dreckos being this efficient fits my playstyle really well. Mazz fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Nov 10, 2018 |
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Nov 10, 2018 19:58
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what have u done
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Nov 10, 2018 20:46
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You can power solar panels off shine bugs btw, it just takes a lot. I think you have that last part covered.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:54
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You should see what it looks like when I fill a critter lure with phosphite. 
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Nov 10, 2018 20:56
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I feel bad cause I always go out of my way to kill shinebugs, I just find them annoying, and they always seem to go to the few places in my base I want kept dark.
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Nov 10, 2018 21:03
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I don't think I've ever reached the point where I didn't want more plastic. Beds, ladders, transport tubes. Getting that all set up takes a poo poo ton of plastic. I can see a finite end of the process, but man is that a long way off.
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Nov 10, 2018 22:43
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I only use plastic ladders in the heavily traveled routes in my base. Everywhere else it’s kind of wasteful imo, especially since fire poles already provide ridiculous downward movement speed.
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Nov 10, 2018 22:52
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I still haven't figured out how to get Dense Pufts. I've had several cycles of Prince -> Puft -> Prince without one. All in Oxygen. Also, what's the best way to get O2 into exo suits? Should I split some off my SPOM, or should I build a SPOM specifically for suits, granted I won't need the cooling from the SPOM since suits don't care about the O2 temp? pakman fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 00:05
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pakman posted:I still haven't figured out how to get Dense Pufts. I've had several cycles of Prince -> Puft -> Prince without one. All in Oxygen. If your base is small enough you can just tap into your spom but once you expand past that you'll need to make one just for suits, so yeah just make one for your suit bay and yup don't need to cool it just make sure it's well insulated from your base
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Nov 11, 2018 00:16
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pakman posted:I still haven't figured out how to get Dense Pufts. I've had several cycles of Prince -> Puft -> Prince without one. All in Oxygen. my first few exosuits just leeched O2 off of my SPOM, cause I only had 2 suits. I stuck a flow valve off of my main base O2 pipe and told it to let only 100g/s through, so as not to disrupt my main O2 flow. they fill up slowly, but they do fill up. if I had more than 4 exosuits, I'd probably make a dedicated O2 supply just to fill them.
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Nov 11, 2018 00:24
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pakman posted:I still haven't figured out how to get Dense Pufts. I've had several cycles of Prince -> Puft -> Prince without one. All in Oxygen. Calculate how many duplicants your SPOM can support. 1 Electrolyser, working perfectly, can support 8.88 duplicants. 2 electrolysers can saturate a gas pipe and support 10 duplicants. If you have any excess O2 at all you should be able to tap the SPOM for the suits. If you don't have excess O2 I recommend building more on principle. While you use oxygen to fill spaces (including the suits as "space"), oxygen is generally only consumed by duplicants. If you get your dense pufts modify the math accordingly. Tame dense pufts consume 30Kg a day, producing 28.5kg of oxylite. That is 2.5kg a day if you let the oxylite gas off, meaning 24 tame dense pufts (or 96 wild) are equivalent to a duplicant.
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Nov 11, 2018 00:33
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I like to build my first SPOM just outside the base and near the exo suit port. Pipe the o2 to fill the suits (usually six) first then the leftover goes into the base. That usually makes enough oxygen to let me turn off the second algae thingy. Also a SPOM + water sieve + pwater liquid pump + 6 exosuit docks is 1920 watts, which all fits nicely on one conductive wire.
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Nov 11, 2018 00:35
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 I still put everyone in suits as soon as they step out into the world, and this is how I keep 14 suits active. One SPOM feeds it directly the other gets about half its output. It struggles a little bit to keep the last 2 full but since the dupes dont use any in the world outside of when eating/making GBS threads/sleeping, it works fine and I have surplus oxygen everywhere. One SPOM can fully cover right between 8-10 suits depending on stuff, so basically the same as it can actual duplicants. Mazz fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 00:48
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You don't need a SPOM dedicated to exosuits. At the end of the day, your oxygen consumption is going to be the same. The only thing that matters is the rate at which you can fill the exosuit oxygen tanks. Once you have a lot of them, simply splitting the main SPOM oxygen line won't be enough. You should just build pumps + gas filters and fill them that way.
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Nov 11, 2018 00:49
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Right now I've got 8 dupes, and am seeing up a dock of six suits. I plan on having at least six more suits on the other side of my base. I have infinite water with two steam vent and a water geyser, so production should not be a problem. I want to get the suits set up because my next big project is tapping the natural gas vent.
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Nov 11, 2018 00:58
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One SPOM is enough for only 7 dupes anyway.
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Nov 11, 2018 01:00
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enraged_camel posted:You don't need a SPOM dedicated to exosuits. At the end of the day, your oxygen consumption is going to be the same. The only thing that matters is the rate at which you can fill the exosuit oxygen tanks. Once you have a lot of them, simply splitting the main SPOM oxygen line won't be enough. You should just build pumps + gas filters and fill them that way. I don't understand the need for the extra pumps. Why not just pipe all the excess directly to the suits? Edit: You don't need to cool the suit oxygen so you could branch off the oxygen before cooling it. I personally never use gas/liquid filters, using sensors/shutoffs instead for the power savings. There is an added level of complexity to doing so mind you. Smiling Demon fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 01:28
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I never actually looked at the numbers so here's some quick math about electrolyzers/dupes. The proper designs for SPOMs produce around 400-480kg / cycle. Its not a smaller range because it depends on how you set up some of the smaller stuff like the atmo sensors, if you made any structure changes, if you are handling the excess hydrogen well etc. You can see your daily numbers in the reports tab on top. Perfectly optimal electrolyzers will make 528 kg/s but that doesn't really happen in game because the way the gasses move and the stuff like pipes blocking. Dupes consume ~60kg a cycle (100 g/s x 600 seconds). So yeah you can safely assume 1 SPOM is producing enough oxygen for 7 or 7.5 dupes and not running short if you go with a typical SPOM. 2 should comfortably cover 15. You can probably be safe with 8 per electrolyzer if they are holding their breath at any point, and 7 once they spend most of their time in atmo suits which guarantees 100% consumption while being worn. Mazz fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 01:34
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Mazz posted:I never actually looked at the numbers so here's some quick math about electrolyzers/dupes. If you just make your SPOM with 2 electrolyzers and 3 pumps you can saturate the oxygen output and support 10 dupes. Edit: I'm pretty sure 3 pumps and 1 electrolyzer would get you the full oxygen output? I haven't tested that though. Smiling Demon fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 01:37
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Smiling Demon posted:I don't understand the need for the extra pumps. Why not just pipe all the excess directly to the suits? The way gas piping works is like this: Every junction gets 1/2 of the gas that arrives at it. Let's say you have two junctions, with a possible of 3 total outlets (i.e. vents/exosuit docks/etc). With this setup, the first outlet would get 50% of the incoming gas, and the second and third outlets would split the remainder for a total of 25% each. This becomes problematic once you start diverting your SPOM output to too many outlets. For example, if you have three junctions, and the third junction is feeding 3 exosuit docks that are used frequently, you won't be able to fill their oxygen tanks fast enough. That's why you need dedicated gas pumps after a while.
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Nov 11, 2018 01:37
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Smiling Demon posted:If you just make your SPOM with 2 electrolyzers and 3 pumps you can saturate the oxygen output and support 10 dupes. 3 pumps only move 1500 g/s, 2 electrolyzers not being overpressurized will produce 2000 g/s of gas, 1760 of which are oxygen. You'll need more than 3 pumps to be using the gasses made, unless you mean 3 oxygen pumps on the bottom and 1 more on top for hydrogen. Also 3 pumps will overload to a single output line so you can't really use the regular 4 wheezewort cooling thing that well and back the whole system up. You're possibly throwing a bunch of the individual electrolyzer output away, as 10 dupes is only 5 per electrolyzer. It works and that's fine, just not really determining how much a electrolyzer should be making. My above game has 2 SPOMs covering 14 dupes with 10-20kg excess per day, although I have a shitload of extra oxygen from converted polluted stuff. Mazz fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 01:39
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enraged_camel posted:The way gas piping works is like this: Never branch pipes like that. Always use a bridge.
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Nov 11, 2018 01:41
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Mazz posted:3 pumps only move 1500 g/s, 2 SPOMS not being overpressurized will produce 2000 g/s of gas, 1760 of which are oxygen. You'll need more than 3 pumps to be using the gasses made, unless you mean 3 oxygen pumps on the bottom and 1 more on top for hydrogen. Also 3 pumps cannot be moved to the same output line so you can't really use the regular 4 wheezewort cooling thing that well. 2 pumps on the bottom always running, 1 on the top run by an atmo sensor. You do get less dupes per electrolyzer, but honestly electrolyzers are cheap. If I'm putting long pipes in, I want to get the full 1000g/s of oxygen in the pipe.
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Nov 11, 2018 01:44
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I edited some extra stuff in there but yeah if you have 10 dupes that will work fine. You don't need to min/max all the time so long as poo poo works, it just kind a byproduct of the game to get all spergy.
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Nov 11, 2018 01:45
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Smiling Demon posted:Never branch pipes like that. Always use a bridge. Why?
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Nov 11, 2018 01:48
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Honestly every game is going to be a little different so the best thing is to just check your report and see where stuff is coming and going from. Here's mine:  I agree Camel is right, 7 dupes per SPOM/electrolyzer is a good number to work with. Mazz fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 01:54
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Eh, perhaps I should have said that I only do it that way. It makes the plumbing behave in a easy to understand deterministic way. Bridges are also cheap and perfectly insulated since they don't actually contain any liquid, just teleport it. All the weird plumbing behavior occurs when you have a sequence of sinks/sources such as sink-source-sink-source. I make all segments of pipe run along a sequence of green outputs, then a sequence of white inputs. The outputs are prioritized such that the first green has higher priority, later ones can only put liquid on the pipe if there is room. Similarly the first white gets all the liquid until it is blocked, creating a priority ordering for the outputs. Using a bridge to branch my pipes I can manipulate which direction gets priority. The bridged direction will get all of the output until it is blocked, then it will run along the pipe past the bridge.
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Nov 11, 2018 01:56
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my brain is really frazzled atm cause I've been working on a report, but I don't think what you're saying is right, Smiling Demon. Green outputs will always yield to passing gas / liquid. So if you pipe all your green outputs together (showers are a great example), showers down the line will not properly work as they'll constantly stop working (and booting dupes out) because there's already a liquid packet going through the pipe which it yields to. They may have fixed this as it's technically buggy as gently caress, cause showers would stop working even if there was only a tiny packet of water flowing (instead of joining the packets to form a larger one). For white inputs, the first always gets priority, so having a row of hydroponic tiles and feeding them all in a straight line is bad, because the first tile will suck up everything it needs, and the rest will get the trickle down. Here's an image from the wiki to help:  https://oxygennotincluded.gamepedia.com/Guide/Piping also the page I got it from. it's a really interesting read. using a liquid bridge to branch off of pipes, the bridge will prioritize all flow. So instead of splitting the liquid 50/50 between the two pipes, the bridge will take 100% of the flow unless the pipe it's giving liquid to is backed up.
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Nov 11, 2018 02:10
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Qubee posted:my brain is really frazzled atm cause I've been working on a report, but I don't think what you're saying is right, Smiling Demon. Green outputs will always yield to passing gas / liquid. So if you pipe all your green outputs together (showers are a great example), showers down the line will not properly work as they'll constantly stop working (and booting dupes out) because there's already a liquid packet going through the pipe which it yields to. They may have fixed this as it's technically buggy as gently caress, cause showers would stop working even if there was only a tiny packet of water flowing (instead of joining the packets to form a larger one). For white inputs, the first always gets priority, so having a row of hydroponic tiles and feeding them all in a straight line is bad, because the first tile will suck up everything it needs, and the rest will get the trickle down. Yeah showers and sinks don't work quite like this. They fixed lavatories so this works with them, but many other things don't quite work right still. Bridge inputs/outputs do work like this though, so any problem can be fixed putting another bridge between, for example, the shower and the main pipeline. I use *a lot* of bridges. Edit: It may all sound ridiculous, but I've never had a problem with pipes doing all of this. Edit edit: I don't know why the problem exists, but I'd expect it has has something to do with the fact that bridges can fill partial packets. If there is 4000g of water in a pipe on a bridge exit and another 2000g of water on the bridge input it will merge the packets to 6000g of water. I suspect that not all green outputs allow for packet merging currently, which would explain some failures. Smiling Demon fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 02:16
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All this talk made me realize my output pipes on my pumps were underperforming, so thanks for that  . Make sure to not have your second pump shoot directly into the output line, have 1 piece of pipe between the pump exit and the full line. This keeps it from being blocked every other pump. Didn't know that. Just gained like 60kg of oxygen/cycle from fixing that. EDIT: ....Maybe more like 200kg.  I'm gonna go back to 8 dupes per proper electrolyzer if I can hit 500kg per cycle when I set poo poo up right. Mazz fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 02:41
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Can someone explain the puft part of this table to me? I need two puft princes together to get a chance at dense puft or squeaky puft eggs?q
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Nov 11, 2018 08:30
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What actually slows the game down? It doesn't seem to be a gradual thing, instead something just suddenly tanks performance. I am starting to think it is job related (pathing?) but I can't work out any specifics. The same base can at one point be running fine, the next slow terribly, and then next just fine again. edit: I guess it is job/pathing related as I broke things up into sections and forbid the doors and it fixes it up. It is odd that it happens regardless of what the dupes are doing, such as sleeping. Sillybones fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 09:47
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pakman posted:Can someone explain the puft part of this table to me? I need two puft princes together to get a chance at dense puft or squeaky puft eggs?q I haven't bred them yet, but that's the gist of it I believe, a puft prince causes other pufts to have a higher chance of laying other puft types like dense and squeaky.
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Nov 11, 2018 10:19
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Am I missing something? I keep looking for the food to feed the critters to get what you want in that full table and not finding it. Edit: I know what they can eat is there but I don't see how I can encourage a particular critter by the food I feed it. Mayveena fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 14:56
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Also what is the pump at the bottom, the vent next to it, the atmos sensor and the metal tile doing in this SPOM? I tried making one like that but had no clue why I would put them in. Thanks.
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Nov 11, 2018 15:00
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The standard SPOM? The pumps on the bottom are for the oxygen, the top the hydrogen. One pump only moves 500g a second at max and the electrolyzer makes 1000g/s of gas, so you need more than 1 pump. At the same time, it produces 800 g/s of oxygen so 1 bottom pump won't keep up over time, you need 2. The electrolyzer will shut itself off in the gas immediately around itself is too dense, and you'll get less production from it when it does this. You shoot to reduce this downtime as much as possible, all the way to 528kg/cycle of oxygen. The vent is for getting hydrogen into the wheezewort room, as hydrogen is the only gas with the properties to allow the wheezeworts to actually cool that space down to ~10C, oxygen or CO2 and they won't actually cool it down correctly. The atmo sensor is to control the pumps so they turn on and off as the gas density is correct, its way more important for the top pump than the bottom but you should put both in. Finally the metal tile is so the wheezewort cooling part is transferred across to the pump room, which will generally be way hotter. My setup is a little different but it shows how I deal with the hydrogen in a way that never leaves my generators without supply but also never backs the hydrogen up all the way to the source pump, which will cause the bottom pumps to start sending small hydrogen packets out that you'll need to ignore/filter out and overpressurize the area above the electrolyzer and kill its uptime.  Bridges are extremely useful for flow control, run a pipe past the white end to another source and the bridge will take priority on input until that line is full, then send it off the addon you just made. Putting vents immediately in line of a gas line gives them the same priority and instead of splitting them off it will also maintain better flow, as the turns/splits do slightly slow flow down, but its only noticeable when the line is very full. Mazz fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 16:16
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Mazz posted:The standard SPOM? Wow thanks bunches!!
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Nov 11, 2018 16:26
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Yeah the SPOM post on their forums doesn't do a great job of explaining the hydrogen in the room part or how to properly get that room to a vacuum before pumping hydrogen in, but the end result should look like this in the gas viewer: My changes are basically to simplify the awkward hydrogen parts: I put those mechanized doors in on a clock sensor so I can open them before I turn the electrolyzer on, this lets me pump all the gas out of both sections to a vacuum beforehand very easy then shut them without having a dupe run in and gently caress everything up. Then the way the hydrogen line is set up all the early hydrogen will fill the wheezewort/generator room before reaching the generator, then hit capacity and fill the generator like the vent isn't there. You have to run the thing off a manual generator for a cycle or 2 extra but once it's done you never have to touch any of it again. I move the wheezeworts up to the top since hydrogen has much greater density on the roof than the bottom of a room, 3kg vs 2kg in this example. More hydrogen per tile = more cooling from the wheezeworts. I also use granite tempshift across most of the entire room to make sure the cooling is spread to everything possible, this both regulates the temperature to right around 10C/50F naturally, and makes it so the pumps/electrolyzer never get hot enough to get damaged no matter what metal is used to make them. Mazz fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 16:41
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