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Syfe posted:Sadly your system leaves people with literally only 2 options and ways to waste your vote. So you only get two choices once you get to the ballot. If you're worried about your democratic options, you need to be a part of the process much earlier on. But once you get to the ballot, you're either voting for or against, it's a sad reality, but it is your reality. Well yeah, I get that. But that poster was saying that you should vote lesser in our "Lesser of Two Evils" system while also never being critical of the lesser evil. You should only ever fixate on the greater evil. Like how Obama gets a pass for his child concentration camps because they weren't as bad as Trump's, or Democrats being in bed with corporations and banks isn't as bad as Republicans since less of them do it and they aren't as audacious about it. Doesn't matter what they do they aren't Republicans. 
Rectal Death Adept fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 15:48
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Cerebral Bore posted:This happens because republican voters know that when they vote GOP, their representatives will broadly do what they want, whereas the first thing Democrats do when they get power is to start making GBS threads on their base and declare that the things the base wants are completely off the table. The causation is backwards. The Republicans do what their base wants because the base consistently push them to the right in primaries. Just look how far to the right they've moved in the last twenty years. The voters made that happen against the will of the GOP establishment.
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Nov 11, 2018 15:50
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Charlz Guybon posted:The causation is backwards. The Republicans do what their base wants because the base consistently push them to the right in primaries. Just look how far to the right they've moved in the last twenty years. The voters made that happen against the will of the GOP establishment. it's more right wing media caused the base to move further and further right and it used to be the business faction who didn't give a poo poo about social issues could use these useless idiots to win but then it turned out the true believers started winning elections and eventually the entire beast broke from its cage. anyone who hasn't watched "the brainwashing of my dad" should. someone said it before me but fox news isn't the propaganda arm of the republican party - the republican party is the legislative arm of fox news.
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Nov 11, 2018 15:53
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Rectal Death Adept posted:Well yeah, I get that. But that poster was saying that you should vote lesser in our "Lesser of Two Evils" system while also never being critical of the lesser evil. You should only ever fixate on the greater evil. I agree though that the greater evil needs to be considered, purity tests are gone once there are only two options. So the weight of each must actually be weighed, and I think a lot of people waffle over purity at the wrong time. I mean your country is either going to escape this though babysteps with slowly replacing bad-dems with good dems while also just accepting those that aren't pure because they aren't republicans. The other option will end up being civil war, because your country is too goddamn polarized to have anything happen quickly without having the other side literally freak out. What would Mitt Romney's concentration camps been? or McCains? Is it bad? it's bad. Do you have a choice? Not always. edit: :Things got bad so we let the other side win to teach them a lesson, and to see if things getting worse helped energize the vote" is a bad strategy. Syfe fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 15:57
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I wonder how The_Donald is doingquote:If this doesn't end with democrats in gitmo I'm afraid 2020 will be stolen and we'll have our second civil war.
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Nov 11, 2018 15:58
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Peter Daou Bundy posted:You tried this argument with us years ago. We will never be fooled again . If the dem candidate isn’t at least as left as AOC , I will write in Gritty. Period. Hold on a minute, I want to hear more about the FREE MAN OF THE LAND. There's something electric about him
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Nov 11, 2018 16:00
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Hold on a minute, I want to hear more about the FREE MAN OF THE LAND. There's something electric about him A superhero whose cape is a gold-fringed flag that gives him immunity to everything.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:05
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Charlz Guybon posted:The causation is backwards. The Republicans do what their base wants because the base consistently push them to the right in primaries. Just look how far to the right they've moved in the last twenty years. The voters made that happen against the will of the GOP establishment. Even back in the day when the GOP hadn't openly gone full chud the base still got most of what they wanted. At the very least I can't recall Republican establishment openly telling their base that they're never ever getting something they want, which is routine when the Dem establishment talks to their base. So it it really surprising that republican voters are more loyal? Also I think you're severely overestimating the reluctance of the GOP establishment to go full white supremacist. It's pretty clear that the only problem they ever had with it was the fear that it'd cost them electorally. Syfe posted:I agree though that the greater evil needs to be considered, purity tests are gone once there are only two options. So the weight of each must actually be weighed, and I think a lot of people waffle over purity at the wrong time. The problem here is that the US doesn't have time for baby steps. When you already have the fash marching through the streets you can't settle for some ten-year plan of primarying bad dems, because they'll most likely just have taken over by then.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:05
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Nemo Somen posted:The analogy doesn't really fit. The answer to improving Dems is to get involved with the party, even if its just by voting in the primaries. But itt people are admitting that they have no faith in the Dem's primaries. To use your analogy in that case, even when the idea of working on coaching is suggested, some just admit that they have no faith in the coach to work on that aspect of his job. It fits for the poster I was responding to, and that type of Democrat isn't alone in society. They said they can't understand why leftists are critical of Democrats when Republicans exist because Republicans are worse. Thereby giving Democrats a pass as long as they aren't as bad as Republicans. It's completely divorced from the actual people or actions of the Democrat Party and the fact they keep losing. I used a team sport analogy because that's a highly irrational/emotional environment where you may have a completely valid point that (YOUR TEAM) needs to take steps to better itself but someone else on your side gets loving pissed off because you are being negative and not directing your criticism at (OTHER TEAM.) The concept of constructive criticism, self analysis and introspection are treated with hostility because people take them personally.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:06
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Cerebral Bore posted:Even back in the day when the GOP hadn't openly gone full chud the base still got most of what they wanted. At the very least I can't recall Republican establishment openly telling their base that they're never ever getting something they want, which is routine when the Dem establishment talks to their base. So it it really surprising that republican voters are more loyal? I agree that the time for that is likely gone, but I believe that sort of waffling and issues are what allowed the fash to get established in the first place. In honesty I believe that the US needs to reform its goddamn government and change many things laterally. Will that happen without a fight? probably not. Syfe fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 16:08
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:I wonder how The_Donald is doing quote:If I wanted minorities to be a protected class of citizen I'd vote Democrat. Jesus christ, I normally skip these chud updates because it's just toxic shrieking from rage elementals, but loving hell, but every once in a while I'm completely thrown for a loop how much these people's brains have been broken by racism.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:09
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Sorry*
Fragmented fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 16:10
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Katt posted:What are the chances that Trump gets to live down all the crap he caused during his presidency? He’s probably going to die in office. I mean look at him and how he eats. No exercise. Horrible sleep rhythm. Dudes gonna have a stroke.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:12
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Young Freud posted:This apparently doesn't cover half of it. Putin didn't even shake Trump's hand. He's shaking his hand at the start of the video I posted. At first I thought the same but it's definately Trump.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:15
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Do you know that this current dems are bad derail has been going on for 13 hours at this point. Why can't it get a thread again? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2018 16:16
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:I wonder how The_Donald is doing Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:BECAUSE WE DON'T DO poo poo Well this person's not wrong, at least.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:19
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Ms Adequate posted:I would vote for Stalin in basically any possible matchup except Pol Pot, kill everyone, Judge Death 2020 Lets do a bracket to decide who was the worst genocider in modern history.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:19
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Human Tornada posted:Well this person's not wrong, at least. There are a bunch of maga protestors harassing the poo poo out of recount efforts all over
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Nov 11, 2018 16:20
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Do you know that this current dems are bad derail has been going on for 13 hours at this point. Why can't it get a thread again? I'm receiving reports that...... ..... Yes........Democrats are in fact part of the United States Political system. A large part in fact. So large they are going to be talked about constantly as they are involved in every decision and development in our entire political system in some way. You have plenty of people dunking on Donald Trump. Do you just need a nonstop, undisturbed, 24/7 chain of that or something? Go ahead and call him an orange small hands piss idiot, it's okay.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:24
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Not a Step posted:I didnt mean to touch off a vigourous discussion re: the relative merits of dictators. It was a throwaway line about the absurdities of mindless lesser evil voting. I guess those loving babies in baby jail had to go there... you know... so we could have a changing democratic party anyways because this is the effect BERNIE had on the party whether he won or not. Just like Beto had a massive impact on Texas even though he lost.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:25
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mango sentinel posted:There are a bunch of maga protestors harassing the poo poo out of recount efforts all over I meant the part about "blah blah blah, well I work, way to show em".
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Nov 11, 2018 16:27
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Jacob Wohl save us by saying some stupid poo poo before you go to jail for trying to blackmail Mueller.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:27
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Rectal Death Adept posted:Yes........Democrats are in fact part of the United States Political system. A large part in fact. So large they are going to be talked about constantly as they are involved in every decision and development in our entire political system in some way. Then it should be possible to post lots of new and interesting things instead of this 13 hours "you should vote for democrats/no you should write in gritty/you should vote for hitler" in a loop.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:27
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Easy, thread Sheriff. Put away the guns. We are all on the same side here. I didn't realize you had jurisdiction and it won't happen again. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2018 16:29
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Chilichimp posted:I guess those loving babies in baby jail had to go there... you know... so we could have a changing democratic party anyways because this is the effect BERNIE had on the party whether he won or not. I mean, a TON of people credit their effective radicalization to 'and then the triangulated candidate lost anyway' so Bernie having a massive effect on the party despite losing doesn't inherently mean that bernie has the same massive effect on the party if Hillary wins. It could mean that, but it's far from self evident.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:29
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This guy on meet the press just said that this election entrenched the political situation and didn't change anything, and that moderate Democrats won out over progressive Democrats.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:29
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Then it should be possible to post lots of new and interesting things instead of this 13 hours "you should vote for democrats/no you should write in gritty/you should vote for hitler" in a loop. Be the change you want to see in the world
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Nov 11, 2018 16:30
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Have you tried asking people nicely to vote for Democrats? Like, the aggrieved scolding despite having no credibility is kind of the Democrats' problems in a nutshell.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:30
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reignonyourparade posted:I mean, a TON of people credit their effective radicalization to 'and then the triangulated candidate lost anyway' so Bernie having a massive effect on the party despite losing doesn't inherently mean that bernie has the same massive effect on the party if Hillary wins. It could mean that, but it's far from self evident. Reignonyourparade is pro baby-jail, got it. Thanks for clearing that up. Ghost Leviathan posted:Have you tried asking people nicely to vote for Democrats? Like, the aggrieved scolding despite having no credibility is kind of the Democrats' problems in a nutshell. Would you guys ~please~ help us stop an actual genocide and vote for democrats. Thank you.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:34
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Themagicalgoat posted:I don't really get why leftists love to complain about Democrats on the internet. I mean, I guess they'll at least have a reasonable argument with you, unlike a Republican or conservative. But if you can't pull a Chomsky and admit to yourself that the Republican Party is one of the most evil organizations in US and world history, then what are you even doing? What is useful about quibbling with degrees of responsibility when you know for a fact that the Republican rank and file voter will lie to you, live in bad faith and vote for a fascist? I'd rather hold them responsible and focus my anger and frustration at them. Everything else, from voting to protesting or whatever policy you want is a tactical disagreement about how to deal with the same enemy, right? The thing that you and a lot of other people really fail understand is that a vote for centrism is not a vote against fascists. It's at best a vote to have more time to resist fascism, but the centrists themselves will never resist fascism in any meaningful sense. What they will do is enable its rise. This isn't a tactical dispute over how to resist a common enemy- because centrists will never resist that common enemy. What they will do is weekend our sides response and squander our signs opportunities at resources while they go about enabling the rise of fascism. This is happened over and over and over and over in history. Privileged centrists will never in a million years meaningfully resist fascism: I challenge all you Manchin supporters to provide one example of a Centrist in American politics who's done anything to resist the present rise of fascism in our society. Both Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi have done things that were devastating to the cause of resisting fascism, and they will do those things again because that's the only thing they understand how to do. Pelosi and Schumer belong to a status quo that no longer exists, and the only way they can conceptualize progress is to do anything to drag us back to that old status quo. Their efforts to do so would inevitably enable the further rise of fascism in our culture. I want to emphasize again that this is in no way a dispute over how best to confront an enemy, because centrists will absolutely not resist that enemy. This is a dispute over leadership figures who actually will meaningfully fight against fascism versus leadership figures who will further enable the rise of fascism (while screeching at their own allies to stop resisting). Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 16:34
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1061554334276747264 He just COULD NOT loving HELP HIMSELF could he? The first tweets were "Listen to the authorities, God Bless the firefighters" and now this poo poo. I think, ranking somewhere behind Kiddie Concentration Camps and overall fascism/white nationalism but near the top of his most outrageous qualities, is how he flat out just calls victims of disasters losers and just laughs at their misery. HE'S THE loving PRESIDENT, HE'S SUPPOSED TO LEAD AND HELP BECAUSE THAT IS LITERALLY HIS JOB. IMO part of 2020 needs to call this poo poo out for how loving gross it is, I mean even James Woods knows there's a time to table that poo poo but the rear end in a top hat In Chief doesn't.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:36
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Do you know that this current dems are bad derail has been going on for 13 hours at this point. Why can't it get a thread again? Turns out that the continuous failures of the Democratic Party to be an effective opposition party to inchoate fascism is one of the most relevant discussions in USPolitics. Spoke Lee posted:You fight and organize to push them out. If that fails, fight and organize to push them left. If that fails, organize for the next opening you get but vote to not have your allies institutionalized and persecuted so we can all fight. The Democratic Establishment has a death grip on the party and has freely admitted they funnel resources to more 'electable' center right candidates to tilt the scales and subvert the primary process. They have even argued in court that they are under no obligation to hold fair primaries at all. So it seems like if you want people to support the party no matter the outcome you need to restore faith that the process is fair. Yell at the party that their corruption is killing people. If you have a few hundred million dollars Im sure they will listen.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:36
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Young Freud posted:I remember a couple weeks ago in the Trump thread, saying that Trump will not take the midterms positively and end up retreating into isolation to the point we will have periods where we don't see or hear of him for days. I had thought it would be almost immediately. but it looks like it's happening now. It's the wisest choice, as Jim would fly into a rage and kill everyone between them just to ask another question
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Nov 11, 2018 16:36
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Have you tried asking people nicely to vote for Democrats? Like, the aggrieved scolding despite having no credibility is kind of the Democrats' problems in a nutshell. Could everyone in this thread please vote for Democrats? I'd really appreciate it. 
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Nov 11, 2018 16:36
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Sinistral posted:Could everyone in this thread please vote for Democrats? I'd really appreciate it. Can't; vacation house is in the wrong district
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Nov 11, 2018 16:37
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reignonyourparade posted:I mean, a TON of people credit their effective radicalization to 'and then the triangulated candidate lost anyway' so Bernie having a massive effect on the party despite losing doesn't inherently mean that bernie has the same massive effect on the party if Hillary wins. It could mean that, but it's far from self evident. Yeah, people were so loving smug about how Bernie would sure be nice but we have to be realistic, we have to pick the person who can really win because she's very qualified, and then she didn't even bother campaigning in important states because she was so sure to win, and then she lost, go gently caress yourselves Hillary shills
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Nov 11, 2018 16:38
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Someone was complaining about the "Hitler was a socialist" troll the right wing echo chamber has been signal boosting. I liked this video a lot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUFvG4RpwJI
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Nov 11, 2018 16:38
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VH4Ever posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1061554334276747264 i hate to break it to you but the first tweet was actually making GBS threads on california based on stuff he completely doesn't understand (this fire wasn't started in state-managed forests, and the federal government controls like 5x the acreage as the state iirc) and then some presumably-staffer posted the 'listen to the authorities, evacuate' one later https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1061168803218948096
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Nov 11, 2018 16:38
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Fallom posted:Can't; vacation house is in the wrong district It's ok, just buy a yacht and sail to michigan
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Nov 11, 2018 16:38
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The idea that Democrats oppose Trump's immigration policies would be a lot more compelling if Democrats stopped saying that they were willing to fund the border wall.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:40
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