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Andrast posted:Yeah and in that reality you are never going to get good consistent voter turnout. Without good candidates you wont get it. That isn't true. There is no law that says our voter participation in this country always has to be poo poo. It's not poo poo in other countries.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:39
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If you don't vote to stop fascism because of some squabble with the Democrats then you're complicit with the fascism
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Nov 11, 2018 17:39
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Brony Car posted:McMagic is right. A lot of the terrible things that the GOP have done were most recently enabled by their taking back the house in 2010 and taking the Senate in 2014. Perhaps the President should have paused during his hungry fellating of Wall Street to consider what the outcome of loving over largely hapless home owners to save the banks that caused the problem would be for his party. But no, its the voters who are wrong.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:40
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Mahoning posted:Nah I just realized that disengaging from the process because you didn’t get exactly what you wanted is something that literal children do. American elections are becoming increasingly illegitimate (like they were ever to begin with) and your only solution is to participate in an undemocratic scam, instead you choose to berate people who organize to scrap that system for a better one? Organizing people and mobilizing them for change is always superior to voting
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Nov 11, 2018 17:40
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Fart Amplifier posted:If you don't vote to stop fascism because of some squabble with the Democrats then you're complicit with the fascism You're right and if you support vichy democrats who create the social and material conditions for fascism as well as collaborate with an increasingly explicitly fascist GOP you are also complicit in fascism Voting doesn't stop fascism.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:41
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Phi230 posted:Its the duty of the people to defeat fascism not the state my dude Yeah and every time I post about how to do this I get banned or probated for a week.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:41
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Stexils posted:wow look at those goalposts move! nobody expected obama to get into office and pass the Everything's Good Now act, people DID expect him to punish the banks and not just give them interest free loans and also pass mediocre health care without the public option he had promised in that time. oh also the too small stimulus with a bunch of pointless tax cuts, can't forget that. gee i wonder why people weren't motivated to turn out in droves. Good grasp on who in the government is capable and responsible for what Hint: obama did work for all those things
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Nov 11, 2018 17:42
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Fart Amplifier posted:If you don't vote to stop fascism because of some squabble with the Democrats then you're complicit with the fascism The Dems are complicit with fascism though, so voting for the same crowd of enablers *also* makes you complicit with fascism. The Democrats arent a real opposition party.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:42
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Fart Amplifier posted:Actually democracy is usually polarized and people vote based on who they hate The party people vote for usually stays the same. What changes is whether they show up or not. The people who are already engaged in politics always do but the ones that are less active (hint: these people are the ones who you use to win elections) won't show up unless they actually believe in the candidates they are voting for or there is some other special factor involved.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:42
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Phi230 posted:You're right and if you support vichy democrats who create the social and material conditions for fascism as well as collaborate with an increasingly explicitly fascist GOP you are also complicit in fascism The Democrats are dumb in a lot of ways but they are not responsible for fascism in the slightest
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Nov 11, 2018 17:43
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The fash subvert and manipulate liberal democracy by breaking its rules while hoping that you adhere to them if your only solution to stopping the rise of fascism in the united states is "voting" and nothing else then boy are we gonna have a fun time in the camps together
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Nov 11, 2018 17:43
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Not a Step posted:The Dems are complicit with fascism though, so voting for the same crowd of enablers *also* makes you complicit with fascism. The Democrats arent a real opposition party. What a moronic statement... Was fascism more or less ascendant in the US when Obama was president?
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Nov 11, 2018 17:43
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Not a Step posted:The Dems are complicit with fascism though, so voting for the same crowd of enablers *also* makes you complicit with fascism. The Democrats arent a real opposition party. Please show your work here
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Nov 11, 2018 17:43
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mcmagic posted:That isn't true. There is no law that says our voter participation in this country always has to be poo poo. It's not poo poo in other countries. Those countries generally have less lovely political systems and less lovely parties. The two-party system the US has is excellent at disengaging voters because it ends up with the "lesser evil" situation so often.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:44
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Andrast posted:Yeah and in that reality you are never going to get good consistent voter turnout. Without good candidates you wont get it. Honestly we should have mandatory preferential runoff voting so that way instead of saying what a tragedy, over half of our country didn't vote we can say guys we can't elect sans the skeleton from undertale but we have a compromise
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Nov 11, 2018 17:44
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Phi230 posted:The fash subvert and manipulate liberal democracy by breaking its rules while hoping that you adhere to them hello carl schmitt
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Nov 11, 2018 17:45
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Prester Jane posted:Friend where did you get the bizarre idea that I was intending too or even capable of ever shutting up? Probably from you, when you said you were done and taking your magic prediction 8-ball and loving off to CSPAM This thread is unreadable btw. Who's loving terrible idea was it to combine a fast moving current events thread with Demchat so I get to comb through 15 pages of rehashing the Democratic primary of 2016 to find a single Macron tweet that happened overnight. This argument is never finished, repeats the same concepts endlessly and needs to go elsewhere. Unoriginal Name fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 17:45
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VH4Ever posted:What party do you see fellow trans women running in most often these days? You keep acting like every Dem down to the last is someone completely alien to your experience and that's just flat out wrong. Things are changing, it just takes time. The whole party isn't Chuck and loving Nancy. In fact, as of Tuesday, it's less Chuck and Nancy than it ever has been ever. Your arguing against Trans women lived experience, including my own. Dems are better than repubs, but that's not saying much at all.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:46
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mcmagic posted:What a moronic statement... Was fascism more or less ascendant in the US when Obama was president? Uh, more? Is this a real question lmao. Did you ever see the opposition to Obama? The people who were literally his allies on policy behind closed doors were happy to stoke the fires of a neo nazi uprising on TV every single day
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Nov 11, 2018 17:46
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Phi230 posted:American elections are becoming increasingly illegitimate (like they were ever to begin with) and your only solution is to participate in an undemocratic scam, instead you choose to berate people who organize to scrap that system for a better one? Who said it was my “only solution”? I’m involved in politics at the local level and am eyeing on running for a local office in the next few years. I’ve also put wheels into motion to start a DSA chapter in my area. Nobody is saying “only vote, do nothing else” (well I’m not, if someone else is, they’re dumb) so stop with the straw man. My argument is there is no excuse not to vote, even if you feel the candidate didn’t earn it, because it’s how our system works....for now.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:46
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Phi230 posted:American elections are becoming increasingly illegitimate (like they were ever to begin with) and your only solution is to participate in an undemocratic scam, instead you choose to berate people who organize to scrap that system for a better one? The problem is that the core argument happening here is "is electoralism going to work?" and the idea that it might not is anathema to a lot of people. That said, if you sit around posting about how electoralism won't work but aren't doing something else re: direct action then you're just an edgelord really. Your Parents posted:Yeah and every time I post about how to do this I get banned or probated for a week. Careful now.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:47
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Fart Amplifier posted:The Democrats are dumb in a lot of ways but they are not responsible for fascism in the slightest This is only true if you don't think fascism is the result of material conditions. The crumbling capitalist economy that both parties are responsible for are causing the white and middle/upper classes turn to being nazis to preserve the status quo they benefit from by any means necessary the only way to prevent fascism is by giving people a comfortable, dignified life free of inequality and alienation and once fascism rears its ugly head as it is doing today you empower the people fascists seek to oppress to gently caress their poo poo up
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Nov 11, 2018 17:47
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This didn't just come out of nowhere lol. Obama was a babyface to the libs and a heel to the Nazis and was simultaneously a tool to placate the left and radicalize the right as a media figure
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Nov 11, 2018 17:47
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Your Parents posted:Uh, more? Is this a real question lmao. Did you ever see the opposition to Obama? The people who were literally his allies on policy behind closed doors were happy to stoke the fires of a neo nazi uprising on TV every single day Those people have been in the country since it's founding. The idea that they were just as powerful then as they are now when they are literally in the White House is insanity.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:48
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Phi230 posted:
Except that right wing movements are happening in countries that have those conditions.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:49
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Thalantos posted:Your arguing against Trans women lived experience, including my own. I mean you're right, the history of both parties on this issue sucks but again, on a go forward basis, which party do you see more trans women represented in? Can we turn the page here? Just saying, if there's a trans woman running as a Republican please show me where it is. Even Caitlyn Jenner, privileged and rich and deluded though she is threw Trump overboard.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:49
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I misinterpreted you. It was more ascendant than it was prior to the war on terror imo but since then the M.O. of both parties has been to ramp our country toward overt fascism with hand in hand. I won't say fascism was more on the rise during Obama compared to now, no. It's been a steady incline.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:50
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The only way to make this thread remotely readable is to put over half of it on ignore which is something I really don’t want to do. Besides, even if everyone arguing over Dems Bad is ignored that never ending clusterfuck of an argument sucks all of the air out of the room and dissuades anyone else from trying to contribute something else to the thread because it’ll get instantly drowned out and passed over.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:50
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mcmagic posted:What a moronic statement... Was fascism more or less ascendant in the US when Obama was president? Obama assisted in creating the social and material conditions necessary for the rise of fascism, same as the Democratic Party has done since at least the 90s under the Third Way. Fascism doesnt occur in a vacuum. And then yoh have people like Schumer and Manchin in the current party, so thats basically a freebie.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:50
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https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1061602568017711104quote:The head of investigations at the Turkish Daily Sabah newspaper has told Al Jazeera that Jamal Khashoggi's last words were "I'm suffocating ... Take this bag off my head, I'm claustrophobic", according to an audio recording from inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:51
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Mooseontheloose posted:Except that right wing movements are happening in countries that have those conditions. Caveat, people need to believe these things are true. Reality is immaterial to belief.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:51
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Not a Step posted:Obama assisted in creating the social and material conditions necessary for the rise of fascism, same as the Democratic Party has done since at least the 90s under the Third Way. Fascism doesnt occur in a vacuum. I wonder what made Obams so much different from other presidents that really pissed off right wingers. Must of been the economic policy...
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Nov 11, 2018 17:52
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Mooseontheloose posted:Except that right wing movements are happening in countries that have those conditions. No, mere social programs are not enough. Just because they have neoliberalism with social programs doesn't rid their societies of the hierarchies and alienation that radicalizes those that benefit from the existing order into being reactionaries
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Nov 11, 2018 17:52
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Mooseontheloose posted:I wonder what made Obams so much different from other presidents that really pissed off right wingers. Must of been the economic policy... The tan suit
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Nov 11, 2018 17:52
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The only way to make this thread remotely readable is to put over half of it on ignore which is something I really don’t want to do. Besides, even if everyone arguing over Dems Bad is ignored that never ending clusterfuck of an argument sucks all of the air out of the room and dissuades anyone else from trying to contribute something else to the thread because it’ll get instantly drowned out and passed over. could we unironically have a 'post news only' thread
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Nov 11, 2018 17:53
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The only way to make this thread remotely readable is to put over half of it on ignore which is something I really don’t want to do. Besides, even if everyone arguing over Dems Bad is ignored that never ending clusterfuck of an argument sucks all of the air out of the room and dissuades anyone else from trying to contribute something else to the thread because it’ll get instantly drowned out and passed over. Be the posts you want to see.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:54
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Testikles posted:Caveat, people need to believe these things are true. Reality is immaterial to belief. OK but that proves my point doesn't it? You can have the most Utopian place in the world and societal factors are still going to lurch people to embrace fascism.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:54
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They keep saying they're going to release recordings and poo poo but it never materializes.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:54
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A lot of you are defining fascism really narrowly, like it had to be the kind of racist, sexist, militaristic activity we have now. If you think that we weren't already in such a scenario, you need to reassess what america's power structure has been like for decades and read more basic pol sci.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:54
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Mooseontheloose posted:I wonder what made Obams so much different from other presidents that really pissed off right wingers. Must of been the economic policy... Testikles posted:The tan suit Your smug condescension would work a lot better if you actually had any kind of analysis for whats going on are you so disconnected from reality that you just think you're automatically right because you think obama good
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Nov 11, 2018 17:54
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