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I really liked this thread as an idea to start, but anyone that reads this and thinks it is anything but loving stupid is broken. I don't want to isolate Dems bad chat to it's own thread, but there has to be something closer to a middle ground. At the moment this thread is useless to follow current events because there is no discussion of the events. It's drowned out by the same 5 arguments that play on repeat. It doesn't mean all of those arguments are wrong, but they add nothing to the discussion. Please consider some additional posting rules to prevent some of the repeat arguments.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:55
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Some old woman blocked me on Twitter because I said it must suck to be represented in Congress by "loving Dan Crenshaw" do not use such language about veterans young man
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Nov 11, 2018 17:56
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Chilichimp posted:There's no reason you can't be both voting for leftists/progressives AND votebluenomatterwho No, you actually couldn't. Let's have a little thought experiment here. Let's say that you got your wish and everybody actually did vote blue no matter who and no matter the circumstances. If this were the case, what's to stop the party establishment from abolishing all primaries and going back to handpicking candidates in smoke-filled rooms? And furthermore, why wouldn't they immediately do that? There's no electoral downside since everybody does vote blue anyway, and they get to keep power for their ideological wing in perpetuity. Hence it's clear that the one thing you wish for would clearly lead to the other one becoming impossible, which is kind of a bad thing for your overall argument.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:56
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eke out posted:could we unironically have a 'post news only' thread In this hypothetical thread, perhaps only allow posts directly discussing a news post? Like if you can't point at a news post in the last X hours relevant to your discussion, you get probated.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:57
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Mooseontheloose posted:OK but that proves my point doesn't it? You can have the most Utopian place in the world and societal factors are still going to lurch people to embrace fascism. Ah here we go, you think that capitalism with social programs somehow magically cures alienation, hierarchy, and inequality if you think passing vaguely social democratic reforms creates a utopia you're either blissfully ignorant or the precise kind of person who would jump to the nazis the moment your privilege bubble pops
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Nov 11, 2018 17:57
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The only way to make this thread remotely readable is to put over half of it on ignore which is something I really don’t want to do. Besides, even if everyone arguing over Dems Bad is ignored that never ending clusterfuck of an argument sucks all of the air out of the room and dissuades anyone else from trying to contribute something else to the thread because it’ll get instantly drowned out and passed over. My ignore list getting ridiculously long, as I have no interest in reading the same dems bad arguments that have been thrown around for a decade or more without stop. The Dems Bad posters are generally incapable of posting about anything else and consequently they are repetitive and boring and I have no interest in reading anything they post. eke out posted:could we unironically have a 'post news only' thread Please please please
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Nov 11, 2018 17:57
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Phi230 posted:Your smug condescension would work a lot better if you actually had any kind of analysis for whats going on So to be clear, you don't think Obama being black might of lead to people freaking out and joining a right-wing reactionary movement? Or is that because it doesn't fit your argument, it's automatically wrong?
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Nov 11, 2018 17:58
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Deteriorata posted:My ignore list getting ridiculously long, as I have no interest in reading the same dems bad arguments that have been thrown around for a decade or more without stop. No you see it's important we engage with them nonstop because if we just talk about Trump without 90% Dems bad circular chat it's a bad thing and we are just echo chambering we should thank the mods for opening our eyes.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:58
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Mooseontheloose posted:OK but that proves my point doesn't it? You can have the most Utopian place in the world and societal factors are still going to lurch people to embrace fascism. I can agree to it
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Nov 11, 2018 17:58
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eke out posted:could we unironically have a 'post news only' thread
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Nov 11, 2018 17:59
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Phi230 posted:No, mere social programs are not enough. Just because they have neoliberalism with social programs doesn't rid their societies of the hierarchies and alienation that radicalizes those that benefit from the existing order into being reactionaries Can this chickenhawk communism please be bannable outside of CSPAM?
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Nov 11, 2018 17:59
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The only way to make this thread remotely readable is to put over half of it on ignore which is something I really don’t want to do. Besides, even if everyone arguing over Dems Bad is ignored that never ending clusterfuck of an argument sucks all of the air out of the room and dissuades anyone else from trying to contribute something else to the thread because it’ll get instantly drowned out and passed over. I don't see where else I can express my opinions about this and I also don't want to fear a probation for going against the mods. It's a bit of a chilling effect and I know there are other posters out there that are lurking and don't know where to share their opinions about the state of this thread. Please, mods, I don't want to be afraid of you guys, I only want to have an open discussion.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:59
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Mooseontheloose posted:I wonder what made Obams so much different from other presidents that really pissed off right wingers. Must of been the economic policy... He did preside over a multi trillion dollar bank bail out that saw not one executive jailed while millions lost their homes, amongst many other failings. Trying to cloak that under 'its just because he was black' is some serious horseshit but par for the course for a Democrat really. Never examine the failings of your leaders, blame it on the voters instead. Look, you can vote Democrat to slow fascism, but lol if you dont have anger in your heart at how incomptent the Dems are as you pull the lever, and double lol if you think blindly voting for the more electable lesser of two evils is going to save the country.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:00
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+1 for news thread
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Nov 11, 2018 18:01
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The Dems Bad ghetto was fantastic, I have no idea what kind of weird point the mods are trying to make by forcing them back into the USPOL/Trump thread. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2018 18:01
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"Post news only" is a bad idea, but an end to the philosophical slapfights and a focus on current events would be a good one, because I agree that this isn't going anywhere. Again, why are we having the electoralism fight after the election? But if Chuck Schumer says something stupid, we should be able to whine about Chuck Schumer saying something stupid, and not just have it be the "take it to CSPAM, do not question the Democrat" hugbox that Trump Thread kept trying to be.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:01
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Nemo Somen posted:In this hypothetical thread, perhaps only allow posts directly discussing a news post? Like if you can't point at a news post in the last X hours relevant to your discussion, you get probated. Deteriorata posted:Please please please i'm not trying to argue with mod policy, i just enjoyed trying to contribute news and make the occasional effortpost about the insane number of legal disputes ongoing with this administration and this is a bad place for it right now. some of it can go in specialized threads but not all
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Nov 11, 2018 18:02
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Mooseontheloose posted:So to be clear, you don't think Obama being black might of lead to people freaking out and joining a right-wing reactionary movement? Or is that because it doesn't fit your argument, it's automatically wrong? That absolutely played a part but you're ignoring much more important and pervasive reasons for people going reactionary. You're ignoring the growing fascism problem in the United States that has been present for like 40 years, and that problem has its roots much deeper than chuds being mad about Obama. They were already fascists when Obama got elected. Their radicalization that occurred under Obama was taking a final step on a road they were already on.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:02
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Phi230 posted:Ah here we go, you think that capitalism with social programs somehow magically cures alienation, hierarchy, and inequality You have a nasty habit of not actually addressing what I am saying. Other countries who are definitionally more socialist or have stronger social programs are lurching right-ward. In fact you are buying into the economic anxiety argument that the media was spouting (and sadly I bought into for a bit) after Trump was elected. Yes, economics has SOME part of this but its so much more loving complicated than you are making it out to be. Toxic masculinity, racism, climate change, demographic changes are also playing large roles in this.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:03
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:"Post news only" is a bad idea, but an end to the philosophical slapfights and a focus on current events would be a good one, because I agree that this isn't going anywhere. Again, why are we having the electoralism fight after the election? But if Chuck Schumer says something stupid, we should be able to whine about Chuck Schumer saying something stupid, and not just have it be the "take it to CSPAM, do not question the Democrat" hugbox that Trump Thread kept trying to be. I think this is fine as long as it doesn't last 5 pages and devolve into the current hellscape we are in.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:03
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motoh posted:A lot of you are defining fascism really narrowly, like it had to be the kind of racist, sexist, militaristic activity we have now. If you think that we weren't already in such a scenario, you need to reassess what america's power structure has been like for decades and read more basic pol sci. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkkAXkhKg98 This cheeseball cable doc from a decade ago should be mandatory viewing for people involving themselves in American politics imo
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Nov 11, 2018 18:04
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How are u posted:The Dems Bad ghetto was fantastic, I have no idea what kind of weird point the mods are trying to make by forcing them back into the USPOL/Trump thread.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:06
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marshmonkey posted:+1 for news thread This isn't an empty quote because I'm going to say something about the Democrats. Votebluenomatterwho gets you Chuck Schumer
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Nov 11, 2018 18:06
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Gentlemen! You can't discuss USPolitics here! The is the USPol thread!
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Nov 11, 2018 18:07
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I also request that posting 'be the change you want to see' as a snarky reply should get you a 6'er.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:08
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:I really liked this thread as an idea to start, but anyone that reads this and thinks it is anything but loving stupid is broken. I am a bit of a lurker, but I agree. I used the old Trump thread for current events. On a slow weekend day there’d be 80 posts. On a day when Jeff Sessions recuses himself or Manafort goes to jail there’d be 800. It was an easy barometer of wtf is happening but also most of it was discussion surrounding the posted tweets. This thread, trying to amalgamate all of current events, USPOL, and Trump vs Dems is just awful. 300 posts an hour and all of it is the same ten people perseverating on some hot take. Especially the night crew. Good god you guys can rack up nearly 500 posts about literally nothing. Don’t you all like.. have jobs and/or a bed to sleep in? The best CE thread is still and always will be in GIP, but there’s definitely a way to do this better in here. A thread for people to post tweets and news about Trump and his cabinet that is underscored with an understanding not to shitpost. A thread for dems talk with the same. This sub forum is capable of doing so it just needs to simmer down and step up. Blind Rasputin fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 18:08
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Not a Step posted:Gentlemen! You can't discuss USPolitics here! The is the USPol thread! 
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Nov 11, 2018 18:08
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Mince Pieface posted:Please show your work here I'm not the poster you quoted, but it seems "Not voting for any candidate against fascism is supporting it" and "not offering a meaningful resistance to fascism is fine if you are in government" to be incompatible statements, but here we are with people being browbeaten for not voting for AT BEST feckless "resisters"
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Nov 11, 2018 18:09
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I don't know why it's such a controversial loving position that rich people who get their dicks sucked by lobbyists 24/7 can be bad regardless of party affiliation. The "Dems bad" people aren't the ones posting 15 paragraph rod dreher opinion pieces about how actually we need to reach across the aisle and stop being childish every time someone lets out a resigned sigh. You can just accept that lovely corporate fascists are bad and move on without having to litigate that you see the baby cages were A Good Thing in 2010 and Very Bad now, and it's impossible that they were always bad, for loving pages and pages.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:09
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Mooseontheloose posted:You have a nasty habit of not actually addressing what I am saying. Other countries who are definitionally more socialist or have stronger social programs are lurching right-ward. In fact you are buying into the economic anxiety argument that the media was spouting (and sadly I bought into for a bit) after Trump was elected. Yes, economics has SOME part of this but its so much more loving complicated than you are making it out to be. Toxic masculinity, racism, climate change, demographic changes are also playing large roles in this. You are incorrectly framing me as holding the "economic anxiety" argument because that's not correct analysis either. It is you who are being extremely reductive and narrow by just saying that reactionaries are reactionary because they're reactionary the middle class goes reactionary because they hold power over others, when that power is threatened they radicalize into fascism. Fascism is capitalism in decay again, you are asserting that countries are "more socialist" social programs are not socialism. Social programs as present in Europe do not address alienation and inequality in a way that stops fascism
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Nov 11, 2018 18:09
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I'm sorry for joining the qqcsing but I feel it's worth saying: I am glad of the change. Accusations of 'nothing mattersism' for not being aligned with the up to the minute hopes of the trumpthread, siphoning off any dem detraction into an echo ghetto you could ignore, both of these were bad things. They are better off gone.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:10
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I mean, the suggested solution is just not engage in bad dem chat anymore and let it inevitably die out or get the crew banned as they escalate their hot takes to calls for revolutionary violence, like Lightning Knight said.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:11
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VH4Ever posted:I mean you're right, the history of both parties on this issue sucks but again, on a go forward basis, which party do you see more trans women represented in? Can we turn the page here? Just saying, if there's a trans woman running as a Republican please show me where it is. Even Caitlyn Jenner, privileged and rich and deluded though she is threw Trump overboard. Dems slowly slowly have made my life worse. Sure, republicans make it worse faster, but dems are....not good on the issue. I vote for Democrats, but I do so reluctantly for the most part. In fact, I'll go out here and SPECIFICALLY call out the Obama administration for loving us over, by changing some standing policies in the federal government to make it easier for trans folks, but what did that do? It was a tokenesque handout, riled up republicans to the fact that trans folk even exist, and now rear end in a top hat in office took those away and then some from me and mine. You know what would actually help most trans people, considering were primarily poor as poo poo? Universal health care. A strong social safety net. poo poo, UBI! All those things would make immediate improvements in my quality of life and that for a LOT of my trans siblings....sure, passports are nice, but most of us are struggling to make sure how to not end up homeless, so ahahaha lol at helping us with an ID that costs hundreds of dollars.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:11
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Twinty Zuleps posted:Can this chickenhawk communism please be bannable outside of CSPAM? Oh do you find something wrong with improving people's lives you loving chud
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Nov 11, 2018 18:12
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A thread with only tweets and links to news posts might be fine for people not into discussing or debating the current state of USPolitics and how we got here. Seems a bit counterintuitive for it to be in D&D, the forum for debating and discussing though
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Nov 11, 2018 18:13
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Tibalt posted:I mean, the suggested solution is just not engage in bad dem chat anymore and let it inevitably die out or get the crew banned as they escalate their hot takes to calls for revolutionary violence, like Lightning Knight said. General strike now triggered lib?
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Nov 11, 2018 18:14
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Tibalt posted:I mean, the suggested solution is just not engage in bad dem chat anymore and let it inevitably die out or get the crew banned as they escalate their hot takes to calls for revolutionary violence, like Lightning Knight said. Even not engaging isn't sufficient because it still drowns out discussion of actual news. Someone posted the description of Kashoggi's death and it HAD ZERO REPLIES. The same thing happened to the old US Pol thread. When someone mailed bombs to democrats, there were no posts about it. The reason was it is hard to turn that subject into 'dems bad' which was the sole unspoken reason for the thread. That now exists here and we see the same effect.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:14
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I don’t see why we have any separate threads at all in DnD. One thread should be enough, bring it all in here I say.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:18
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Honestly what do you want to hear about Khashoggis death that people haven't said already. Oh my god it's so horrible? Wow at least he died of suffocation and wasn't sawed to pieces alive? It also did get replies, a trump threader suggested turkey was faking it or something
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Nov 11, 2018 18:19
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Someone posted the description of Kashoggi's death and it HAD ZERO REPLIES. I did. And more importantly, why didn't you? A lot of lurker crew seems to want other people to put in all the effort for them re: following US news and politics. ^ I didn't say that Turkey was faking it, I said that I'm not convinced Turkey has the recordings they're claiming to since they keep not releasing them.
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