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AFancyQuestionMark posted:He lost the primary once and he can lose it again, especially if some charismatic populist like Avenatti gets involved with the current political climate. Things like his respect for the norms and decorum may sink Sanders, depending on how bad polarization gets in primary season. Avenatti’s finished before he even started, by saying that the next Dem nominee needs to be a white male.
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Nov 11, 2018 18:31
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LinYutang posted:This is all we need, and I increasingly question if Bernie can actually do well in the rural Midwest when not running against the Hated Clinton. Especially after seeing (and experiencing) a wave of progressives spin out and crash in rural Michigan during the 2018 primaries and generals. But it isn't "all we need"; there is actual harm from merely replacing Trump with a Democrat like Klobuchar, even if it's somewhat less harm than not doing so. If anything, I'd argue that the potential difference, in terms of impact to peoples' lives, represented by the ideological variation within the likely 2020 Democratic primary candidates is greater than that between the more centrist/right-leaning Democrats and Trump/Republicans. Most people currently in poverty, being killed by our bombs/weapons abroad, suffering from bigotry, etc will continue to do so regardless, but at least under the more left-leaning options like Sanders there's also a chance for policy with a very large positive impact (and he'd also probably murder fewer people abroad, since it's not exactly a high bar to clear to be better than most other Democrats/Republicans on that issue). And that's not even touching on the harder-to-quantify benefit to simply pushing the Overton window to the left through electing someone with Sanders' politics/reputation. Basically the point I'm trying to make here is that it's wrong to think "defeating Trump is so important it should take precedence over all other considerations," since at the end of the day most harm is bipartisan and someone seeking to lessen harm should have the goal of not just electing a Democrat, but electing one who will make a significant positive impact on the status quo. I feel like, when people say this sort of thing, they're using logic like "if I had to choose between replacing Trump with a crappy Democrat or not replacing Trump, I'd choose for the former," but that's not what's actually going on. It would be more accurate to say something like "if I had to choose between a 55% chance of replacing Trump with a crappy Democrat and a 50% chance of replacing him with an actually-decent one" (and this is very generously assuming a candidate like Klobuchar would have a higher chance of winning in the first place, of which there is no convincing evidence). The calculus is a lot less clear when you're just talking about some marginal difference in the chance of winning between two Democratic candidates. Internet Explorer posted:Bernie/Lee is my hope. I think it's important to have a credible progressive VP given Bernie's age. Like I think someone else mentioned at some point, I would rather have Lee in an actual substantive position like Speaker or something than the mostly ceremonial position of VP.
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Nov 11, 2018 19:07
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Ytlaya posted:But it isn't "all we need"; there is actual harm from merely replacing Trump with a Democrat like Klobuchar, even if it's somewhat less harm than not doing so. If anything, I'd argue that the potential difference, in terms of impact to peoples' lives, represented by the ideological variation within the likely 2020 Democratic primary candidates is greater than that between the more centrist/right-leaning Democrats and Trump/Republicans this take needs to have a steel container built over it and be buried for a few tens of millions of years until the half life decays far enough that the cockroach archaeologists can safely dig it up
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Nov 11, 2018 19:20
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in a 9-0 decision, (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2018 19:21
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Ytlaya posted:Like I think someone else mentioned at some point, I would rather have Lee in an actual substantive position like Speaker or something than the mostly ceremonial position of VP. I think that's reasonable under normal circumstances but if there's a decent chance that Bernie drops dead in his first term, I'd want someone competent running as his VP.
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Nov 11, 2018 19:41
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ChairMaster posted:I would really love for you to name someone better. I'm not being sarcastic, I genuinely would love for there to be a better candidate than Sanders. He's an unfortunate compromise made necessary by the Democrats being the most pathetic and worthless thing in the universe. Tammy Baldwin - a progressive, openly gay woman who just won her 2018 senate election in Wisconsin by 10%. A GIANT PARSNIP fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 22:21
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Tammy Baldwin - a progressive, openly gay woman who just won her 2018 senate election in Wisconsin by 10%. sure, i'll throw her on the at-least-roughly-gillibrand-tier pile
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Nov 11, 2018 23:21
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A quick check makes her look a lot better than Gillibrand, and she endorsed Clinton in 2013, hardly a knock against her since nobody knew who Sanders was in 2013.
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Nov 11, 2018 23:35
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ChairMaster posted:A quick check makes her look a lot better than Gillibrand, and she endorsed Clinton in 2013, hardly a knock against her since nobody knew who Sanders was in 2013. i might dispute the "a lot" so far, but the 2013 thing was a big part of the joke yes
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Nov 12, 2018 00:01
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https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/1061749298268983297 He's running.
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Nov 12, 2018 00:25
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Biden hasn't even announced and he's already making gaffes. A new record.
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Nov 12, 2018 00:35
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Biden hasn't even announced and he's already making gaffes. A new record. With the way things have been going, "having pictures taken of you giving awards to George W. Bush" is arguably not a gaffe to the Democratic base. 
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Nov 12, 2018 00:46
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Lightning Knight posted:With the way things have been going, "having pictures taken of you giving awards to George W. Bush" is arguably not a gaffe to the Democratic base. 
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Nov 12, 2018 01:01
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:I think that primary said more about race than it did about progressive policy. Plus, El-Sayed had more than a few foot-in-mouth moments. Adbul El-Sayed was just the highest profile of dozens of progressives who have ran in Michigan and who have largely failed to gain footholds in local/state/congressional politics, especially in rural areas. Most of them were white. This will all be proven out in the upcoming presidential primaries, but the Hillary factor in Bernie's dramatic Michigan win was huge. She was loathed here (obviously)
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Nov 12, 2018 02:52
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LinYutang posted:Adbul El-Sayed was just the highest profile of dozens of progressives who have ran in Michigan and who have largely failed to gain footholds in local/state/congressional politics, especially in rural areas. Most of them were white. while some skepticism of Bernie 2020 is reasonable, aren’t you the troll who mocked the El-Sayed campaign and insisted that Julia Salazar had no chance to win because there happened to be some Hasidic Jews in her district
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Nov 12, 2018 03:09
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A... a new challenger appears? https://twitter.com/ryangrim/status/1061822979196231680
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Nov 12, 2018 04:35
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Social Studies 3rd Period posted:A... a new challenger appears? lol he voted for Trump I guess literally everyone really is going to give it a shot, huh? Time to break the record for number of people on a debate stage.
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Nov 12, 2018 04:41
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I'm pretty confident Jay Inslee the governor of Washington is going to try to run and will accomplish nothing.
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Nov 12, 2018 05:07
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I guess now's a good time to announce my candidacy. Once elected I pledge to immediately set about restoring these forums to their former glory by bringing back YCS.
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Nov 12, 2018 05:11
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Wicked Them Beats posted:lol he voted for Trump He voted for Trump because his county did 98%. His platform is actually pretty non-succ.
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Nov 12, 2018 05:23
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punk rebel ecks posted:He voted for Trump because his county did 98%. His platform is actually pretty non-succ. So you’re saying he’s blatantly willing to throw anyone under the bus if it might help his election. I’m sure he’ll stick to those “non-succ” platforms and defend them rather than abandon them as soon as it’s useful.
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Nov 12, 2018 06:12
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Trabisnikof posted:So you’re saying he’s blatantly willing to throw anyone under the bus if it might help his election. I’m sure he’ll stick to those “non-succ” platforms and defend them rather than abandon them as soon as it’s useful. Somebody please post the article where when asked why he supports balanced budgets and other conservative economic tripe as a state legislator he gave ridiculous non-answers, tia. He won't amount to anything in the 2020 primary.
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Nov 12, 2018 06:13
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We're going to need a debate playoffs system or something where you have to win your corner of the political map before you can move on to the main stage.
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Nov 12, 2018 07:07
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Have Some Flowers! posted:We're going to need a debate playoffs system or something where you have to win your corner of the political map before you can move on to the main stage. The Democratic Party's fundraising strategy in 2020 will be to run a bracket system and have people pay into Fantasy Primary bracket betting.
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Nov 12, 2018 07:10
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Wicked Them Beats posted:lol he voted for Trump In 2020, Democrats will have try to win back voters in rust belt states that went for Trump. Criticizing Ojeda for his 2016 vote is a great way to shoot your campaign in the foot.
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Nov 12, 2018 07:35
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Ego-bot posted:In 2020, Democrats will have try to win back voters in rust belt states that went for Trump. Criticizing Ojeda for his 2016 vote is a great way to shoot your campaign in the foot. Running a candidate who voted Trump is probably fastest way to lose 2020. We’re right to criticize him as a proposed leader of the Democratic Party because he would lead us to humiliating defeat again.
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Nov 12, 2018 07:56
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Sanders's VP should be illegal immigrant Jeremy Corbyn. They can swap the plan around for the UK if Sanders loses, or maybe just do it regardless.
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Nov 12, 2018 07:58
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Voting for Trump in 2016 means you were either very stupid or just straight up immoral. Neither of those are great qualities for someone running for president (on a left platform) to have displayed only a couple of years ago.
Saagonsa fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 08:00
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Can we draft Reverand Wright? That guy was loving cool.
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Nov 12, 2018 08:31
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Hillary Clintonites keep saying she's gonna run again.https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/416164-ex-clinton-aide-hillary-will-run-again-in-2020 posted:
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Nov 12, 2018 09:53
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JosephWongKS posted:Hillary Clintonites keep saying she's gonna run again. mark penn doesn't know poo poo
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Nov 12, 2018 09:58
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Ragnar34 posted:Sanders's VP should be illegal immigrant Jeremy Corbyn. They can swap the plan around for the UK if Sanders loses, or maybe just do it regardless. I think that Bernie's older brother Larry (who is a Green Party politician in the UK) would be a better VP choice to bridge the intercontinental divide. Sanders/Sanders 2020
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Nov 12, 2018 10:15
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punk rebel ecks posted:He voted for Trump because his county did 98%. His platform is actually pretty non-succ. 'succ'
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Nov 12, 2018 10:22
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Social Studies 3rd Period posted:A... a new challenger appears? I think that it will be a really dumb move if he decides to split the vote for progressives.
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Nov 12, 2018 10:26
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Bodhidharma posted:I think that it will be a really dumb move if he decides to split the vote for progressives. lol I am way less absolutist about "IT MUST BE MY PREFERRED CANDIDATE OR IM STAYING HOME" then like 90% of these forums because I am pretty solidly on the side of 'no, seriously, we have to get trump the gently caress out of the white house before he does any more damage', but nominating a Trump voter who is all in on bringing back coal power when the planet is falling apart at the seams because of fossil fuels is one of the few things that would make me throw my hands up and vote for one of the 5,802 fringe left parties that celebrates if their vote total nationwide hits four digits
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Nov 12, 2018 11:55
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Ain't nobody gonna vote for Ojeda if Bernie's running.
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Nov 12, 2018 12:46
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90% of these jokers are just trying to get a book deal and want the DNC to fund their touring expenses.
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Nov 12, 2018 12:59
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Ego-bot posted:In 2020, Democrats will have try to win back voters in rust belt states that went for Trump. Criticizing Ojeda for his 2016 vote is a great way to shoot your campaign in the foot. I agree with your first sentence but not with your second. There are plenty of populist progressives and/or rust belt Dems that didn't loving vote for Trump that would be a million times better than Ojeda.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:06
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exquisite tea posted:90% of these jokers are just trying to get a book deal and want the DNC to fund their touring expenses. Yeah, the whole point of folks like this running is that they get to keep campaigning for some future job, not necessarily even an elected one (think high ranking job in the Defense Department or whatever).
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Nov 12, 2018 15:23
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Trabisnikof posted:So you’re saying he’s blatantly willing to throw anyone under the bus if it might help his election. He is running as a Democrat, yes.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:37
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