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Mazz posted:Yeah the SPOM post on their forums doesn't do a great job of explaining the hydrogen in the room part or how to properly get that room to a vacuum before pumping hydrogen in, but the end result should look like this in the gas viewer: Wheezeworts actually only cool 1kg/s of gas, so as long as they’re not starved of gas then the only difference it makes is the total thermal mass in the room.
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Nov 11, 2018 16:53
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I thought it scaled up to 5kg/s but that does make more sense thinking about it. Either way it changes basically nothing in terms of setup and allows the hydrogen vent/piping + clock sensor to fit better so I would probably stick with this anyway after getting used to it. Good to know though. On a side note the particular build with the metal door instead of the walled chamber thing is from one of the later pages in the SPOM thread. I find it to be much more reliable in terms of controlling the hydrogen flow since the regular SPOM build has that weird issue with the corner and suggesting 2 tiles instead of one. This door thing just works, and does it in a smaller total area. I posted the shots last night but each SPOM is making 500-515kg per cycle sustained, so they are working very well. Both atmos set to above 250 keeps the electrolyzer on ~98% and nothing to filter. Mazz fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 16:56
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pakman posted:Can someone explain the puft part of this table to me? I need two puft princes together to get a chance at dense puft or squeaky puft eggs?q What its saying is that when you have a regular puft with no prince around its chance of laying a prince egg increases 15% per cycle. Once you have a prince, all of the pufts around it have a +5% chance per cycle of laying a dense or squeeky puft egg and -15% chance per cycle of laying a puft prince egg. So if you want to get a dense or squeeky puft you want to corral as many pufts as possible together with a prince so they'll lay special (non prince) puft eggs.
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Nov 11, 2018 17:17
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Firos posted:Wheezeworts actually only cool 1kg/s of gas, so as long as they’re not starved of gas then the only difference it makes is the total thermal mass in the room. 5g/s
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Nov 11, 2018 18:36
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Now that i know that i need a prince with a bunch of pufts, the hard part is setting up the lure chain to get them where i want them to go. I have also had to cull the shine bugs a bit because, holy cow, I couldn't see a drat thing. I'm going to try and build some solar panels and move the miniature star i created into that room. I have never done anything with solar panels before, though. I'm currently in the process of setting up my trimmed SPOM with no cooling so i can supply my 6 exosuits. After that I really need to set up natural gas power as I'm still using coal near cycle 200.
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Nov 11, 2018 19:44
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I’m still using coal at 800, hatches make it last as long as your lovely mineral supply. I’m coal positive from them so I dont see the need to swap out yet although im probably going to oil soon-ish, no nat gas geysers close by for me though. On a side note I just ran out of dirt so RIP mealwood drecko food. Can’t decide if growing blossoms there or just murdering them all as In sitting on 60t of plastic. I thought that was right too but everything I can find today says 1 kg/s at -5C. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 19:47
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I have my exosuits set up to feed from a gas pump in my base. I’m going to build a second SPOM now though. How do I configure it so it feeds the suits first and then vents into the base?
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Nov 11, 2018 19:51
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Wait how do you make it to cycle 800 and still have aconcept of close by.
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Nov 11, 2018 19:55
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5g/s is such a pathetically small amount of cooling that there's no way that's right.
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Nov 11, 2018 19:59
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socialsecurity posted:Wait how do you make it to cycle 800 and still have aconcept of close by. Screenshots would explain it best but I’m on my phone. I’ve strip mined all the way to the oil biome, no nat gas geysers on the bottom half of the map. I haven’t worked up yet since I was going to do the same upwards to the edge of space once the bottom is cleaned up, but I don’t see any in the areas I can see. If I had one in that area I’d work it in. It doesn’t matter regardless, if I had a need I’d go find one. It’s also not really an efficient 800 cycles, I’ve been building and rebuilding things a lot playing with different ideas as it’s the first game I’ve really broke into the mid/late game completely sustainable. Firos posted:5g/s is such a pathetically small amount of cooling that there's no way that's right. He meant 5kg/s but like I mentioned I don’t see anything that confirms that now. Everything I see today says 1 kg/s, about -800W of heat destruction per wort. The thermal capacity and mass does play a role like you said too. Mazz fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 20:05
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tuyop posted:I have my exosuits set up to feed from a gas pump in my base. I’m going to build a second SPOM now though. How do I configure it so it feeds the suits first and then vents into the base?
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Nov 11, 2018 20:38
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I identified one big source of slowdown. It was a conveyor loader with pinchapeppernuts in it that wasn't connected to a rail. Selecting it gave me 1fps. Deleting it in general sped everything up. What?
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Nov 12, 2018 07:37
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you should report it on the game forums
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Nov 12, 2018 07:38
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I got my SPOM-without-cooling set up in the slime biome encased in insulated tiles. I threw in a hopeful when wheezewort to try and keep some of the temperature in check, but it most likely won't. While setting this up, I had a dupe get slimelung, so I tossed him in a pharma machine. Had a second dupe get to 1% immunity as well, but i had restricted her access to the base, and set her as a gopher. My next project is going to be enclosing my first AETN, and trying to set up a natural gas power plant. What is the best way to go about this? I'm putting the generators in the cold biome, and am planning to flood the room with hydrogen that is cooled by dumping excess hydrogen from the local SPOM into the AETN. Radiant pipes will be involved somewhere.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:39
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I’ve never found a need to cool natgas generators, but that may be a mistake in a couple thousand cycles. They produce a lot of CO2, though.
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Nov 12, 2018 16:04
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Can you cool a whole liquid reservoir? It doesn’t seem to be very effective in my testing...
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Nov 12, 2018 16:30
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About to hit day 300 on my current colony and still haven't broken into space, but some observations: 1) Originally I claimed AETN's were cool and good, but I'm starting to re-think that because I attempted to use one to cool down an oil reservoir for use in various places. You just never know when you need some cold oil, you know? Turns out, it's been running for 50 cycles and the AETN has barely made a dent in it. Setup is simple: An oil reservoir encased in insulated tiles but shares a gold metal wall directly with the AETN, with tempshift plates on both sides of the wall. The AETN is filled with hydrogen and is fed by drawing from a nearby SPOM. Result: gently caress all cooling is happening. I ended up converting that oil into petroleum, then feeding it into a cold pWater slush geyser while a row of hydrogen filled wheezeworts sites to the side of the petroleum. Same set up too -- metal wall, tempshift plates. Petroleum? 32 degrees and falling fast. Maybe a better alternative is to drip cool with the AETN? Build mesh tiles on either side, drip water down using a flow control valve, collect runoff into a pit below the AETN? Right now, it's just so absurdly slow that I must be doing something wrong. 2) My power plant is running off 2 petroleum generators and 3 NG generators (I've been blessed with 2 high output NG geysers), so power hasn't been much of a problem lately. It's also sitting next to my wheezewort petroleum setup, so heat isn't much of an issue anymore. With power solved, food solved, cold water solved (soon as that petroleum temperature tanks), what's next? sleeze wheat farm? 3) For conveyor transport, is there any ways to force multiple things down the line? Say I have some fertilizer machines that need both dirt and phosphate. If I build a conveyor receptacle for both, it will load one thing at a time until the line backs up. Maybe some buffer gates and smart storage compactors? Transport is one of the areas I'm not at all familiar with yet, and running multiple lines for a single item seems counter-productive.
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Nov 12, 2018 16:47
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I have a weird issue I'm hoping for some help with. Just hit an Oil Reservoir and I'm prepped to tap it. BUT, it has a tile with 305 Kg of Nat Gas at the top of it. Any idea how to safely tap it with making a giant mess? Edit: There's also 3 other tiles w/ 65, 10, and 19 as well. Hell, I can power my base for a while off this gas alone if I do this right. Retro42 fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 17:35
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Retro42 posted:I have a weird issue I'm hoping for some help with. Just hit an Oil Reservoir and I'm prepped to tap it. BUT, it has a tile with 305 Kg of Nat Gas at the top of it. Any idea how to safely tap it with making a giant mess? A water lock will protect you from 305kg of NG exploding outward into your base. Holy lmao, 305kg.
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Nov 12, 2018 17:49
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The AETN's are only worth about 6 H2-wheezeworts of cooling, and oil has an enormous heat capacity relative to it.
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Nov 12, 2018 17:51
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That's 7 cycles worth of gas on one NGG ... not too bad. I'm surprised it didn't turn to sour gas though.
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Nov 12, 2018 17:54
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Retro42 posted:I have a weird issue I'm hoping for some help with. Just hit an Oil Reservoir and I'm prepped to tap it. BUT, it has a tile with 305 Kg of Nat Gas at the top of it. Any idea how to safely tap it with making a giant mess? Build out somewhere for it to go first. Add all that up and it will fit into a 10x20 room at slightly less than 2kg per square pressure. Build that over the top of the tile, crack it open and let it fill the room (you can probably do a lot smaller to be honest). Pump it away to storage. Get on that well?
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Nov 12, 2018 18:06
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:Build out somewhere for it to go first. Add all that up and it will fit into a 10x20 room at slightly less than 2kg per square pressure. Build that over the top of the tile, crack it open and let it fill the room (you can probably do a lot smaller to be honest). Pump it away to storage. Get on that well? Think I'm going to combine this idea with the water lock idea and focus on diverting and storing all that gas before I tackle the reservoir. If I play this right I can power my base off it for quite a while.
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Nov 12, 2018 18:18
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Retro42 posted:Think I'm going to combine this idea with the water lock idea and focus on diverting and storing all that gas before I tackle the reservoir. If I play this right I can power my base off it for quite a while. It'll run 1 nat gas generator at full bore for just over 7 cycles.
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Nov 12, 2018 18:38
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User0015 posted:About to hit day 300 on my current colony and still haven't broken into space, but some observations: 1. From what I’ve seen big pools tend to not change temperature much unless the liquid is piped through or slowly moved into a colder space where the lower volume is way more susceptible to changes. A good example is a steam geyser, while it’s pretty easy to cool the gasses above the geyser down, the water tank underneath will stay hot pretty much forever until you pump it out. Another example is I can dump 70t of 400C gold into my slush tank it’ll cool the water maybe 2C before the gold is also xool, but if I pump that 10C slush past an AETN I can lower its temperature like another 15C in as little as 30 winding pipe tiles. My guess isn’t that the AETN was failing, just the way you are piping the liquid through cold and dumping it into an already cold area slowly is having way more cooling potential applied than the original big oil tank method. 2. I’m at s similar point in my game, space needs a shitload of steel so setting that production up is my next step along with optimizing and moving some stuff around for the Nth time. I also don’t think I’m going to grow sleeze wheat much, requiring dirt is actually kind of a problem later on since you have to really cook a bunch of poo poo to get large amounts once you burn through the starting stuff. Sieves/compost are okay but it’s not really enough for a sizable farm. If I grow any, it will strictly be for pepper bread for astronauts, everyone else gets something water/slime based. My 14 dudes have all trained as exosuit engineers (to remove the run penalty) at this point and I have excess morale just eating mushrooms. 3. There’s not a great way to do multiple items on the same line, but it did get me thinking of a couple ideas. The first is wiring the loader at the beginning to the smart storage at the end. Once the storage is full, you turn off the loader. Some weaknesses though since you’ll need another storage container for the stuff already on the line, and the signal will keep turning on and off as you use stuff. The better option is probably using a clock sensor or filter gates to turn the loaders on and off, so they alternate sending the materials down the line. There is no way to sort by end receptacle though so don’t expect any luck there, everything has to get sent to one place and sorted from there. Easy enough to deal with but a very real limitation to big central storage setups. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 18:48
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As for 1) I think I'll try drip cooling at a second AETN as an experiment. I know oil has a massive heat density, but petroleum isn't much 'better' and I'm chilling it significantly faster than I expected. AETN's don't become submerged until I think around 500kg in a tile, which should never build up that high with drains on either side to collect runoff. 2) Playing with temperatures like cooking dirt are part of the fun, so I don't mind doing anything crazy like that. I was originally going to use magma to automate petroleum refining, but it seems it produces sour gas now instead of NG, which puts a damper on my plans. Or is it heated petroleum produces sour gas? I also haven't even started steel, but that's probably another big step. If my oil cooling works properly first, I'll probably build the forge up there and use it as coolant. I'm also going to see about vaporizing heated liquids into space for cooling. But that's long term, as I haven't even breached the surface. 3) I honestly think my best bet is to attach a timer or delay so that it cycles back and forth once a day to feed my fertilizer machines. I'll have to play around with it to get the timing down though. edit - you can use diamond for shiftplates now? 80.0 thermal heat capacity? drat, diamond is crazy useful now. User0015 fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 19:17
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The next patch is supposed to be less new big stuff and more fleshing out the existing stuff. I’m hoping there’s some expanded automation stuff especially w/r/t storage. That is if I still feel like playing in six weeks, I’ve been going pretty hard the last two and I’m on track to see everything left to do in this particular game
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Nov 12, 2018 19:27
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I’m not sure if it’s worth it, but I have had good results boxing in an AETN (say a 8x10 room) filling the space with hydrogen, and just running a radiator of radiant pipes full of crude oil through it. Takes over 40c out of hot oil.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:33
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Since people are bringing up pipe mechanics and how bridges work, why not check out this cool and good guide to how bridges work: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/94932-a-guide-to-bridges-and-how-they-help-you-achieve-efficiency-and-flow/ I'll give a quick run down. All photos were taken from the above guide. As you may well know, bridges act as simple one-way valves. White inputs are also called "consumers" and Green outputs are "producers" if that's what what the building they are on does. For example, a latrine consumes water, and produces polluted water. (This terminology extends to things like power and shipping, we're just talking about pipes here.) This guide, incidentally, covers rules that applies to both liquid and gas pipes and bridges!  What you may not know is they also act like valves that equally split pressure to up to four outputs. You can actually do this up to three outputs sans bridges, but if there's backflow it gets messy. Anyway, here, try and visualize it. This is your life without bridges:  This is great for Dupes living around that first vent, less so if they are towards the end, but you could always build around that limitation. If you were a chump. Or you could use a central bridge connected to two auxiliary bridges (three total) and have equal pressure coming out all three vents, for overall less material than the example. You can play around with this and reliably give more air to one section, less to others, but still at nice steady pressures. Another fun use of bridges is making an auxiliary input:  The Aux Pump will fill up and stop until the main pump line runs empty, then it will take over. This can also work in reverse: Making an "relief valve" for when the main pipe backs up: Things will travel route 1 until it can't, then it will flow down Route 2.  If you have recirculating bathroom system, which produces excess polluted water, this is an easy way to shunt it to another drain or the reed farms or whatever. Just remember that using water directly from a water sieve without cooling it it still a really bad long-term plan. Oh, remember I said you could have up to four outputs? Or four inputs for that matter? HOW CAN BE?  Yep, that's a thing. There's a hidden input or output if you go between the bridge. This can be used to simplify layouts, or if you are like me, greatly complicate them.  The above clusterfuck could be configured to hook up to all the above pipes so that all of them would put 50% of their output to a single consumer. You could use it to squirrel away excess production, for example. On the consumer side of things, ever notice that when you have a line of consumers hooked to the same input line, there's a pecking order? The first consumer sucks up the resources until its full, then it will pass on to the next consumer to fill up, and so on. Sometimes that's just super. Sometimes that can lead to really confused packed of whatever trying to go the wrong loving way. You can use bridges, of course, to eliminate a great deal of those problems:  This is useful for making sure your showers or sinks in a washroom never run empty. Or make sure your long line of exosuit docks keep their suits full of oxygen, too!  That's the bridges guide in a nutshell. Some of these rules may also apply to conveyor belts, I haven't gotten a chance to play around with many of those.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:33
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That's partly why I haven't touched rocketry. I've put over 400 hours into this game already, and I haven't done half the things people have tried (advanced logic circuitry, crazy automation, self powered steam turbine generators or self enclosed heating/cooling power cycles, massive slime/oil/plastic farms, 50+ dupes, etc...) Also, this is Klei we're talking about. Klei 'hey it's been a hot minute here's a new Don't Starve dlc pack see you in 15 minutes' Entertainment.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:34
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:I’m not sure if it’s worth it, but I have had good results boxing in an AETN (say a 8x10 room) filling the space with hydrogen, and just running a radiator of radiant pipes full of crude oil through it. Takes over 40c out of hot oil. Nah that’s pretty much the exact way to use AETNs. AETNs are basically just taking ~6 wheezeworts stacked together and requiring a hydrogen line to turn them on. It’s all the same designs and uses for the most part, the only unique thing is the AETN isn’t temperature limited by the gas around it like wheezes are so AETNs have a lower minimum temperature they’ll cool to. You can cool the hydrogen around an AETN all the way to liquid AFAIK, while wheezes bottom out 5C above the phase change. User0015 posted:That's partly why I haven't touched rocketry. I've put over 400 hours into this game already, and I haven't done half the things people have tried (advanced logic circuitry, crazy automation, self powered steam turbine generators or self enclosed heating/cooling power cycles, massive slime/oil/plastic farms, 50+ dupes, etc...) I’m way slow when I play too, I’m too perfectionist about poo poo so it takes me like 200 cycles to do things people can do in 75-100 because I’m constantly fiddling with tiny adjustments. Haven’t tried Dont Starve yet but I got both games at the same time so I’ll have to try that next. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 19:43
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Is there any indication from Klei as to how long a run in the final game is expected to last? Should I be planning for 300 cycles? A thousand? I usually restart around cycle 100 so there's a lot of content I haven't touched.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:44
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Mechanical Ape posted:Is there any indication from Klei as to how long a run in the final game is expected to last? Should I be planning for 300 cycles? A thousand? I usually restart around cycle 100 so there's a lot of content I haven't touched. Basically as long as you want to go to accomplish everything. With stuff like rockets and the planets added giving renewable sources of stuff that previously wasn’t the game is pretty endless now. Also restarting is totally a part of the cycle, this game I’m in is currently ~900 but I restarted a bunch of times between 50-300 as I got better at planning ahead. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 19:48
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I seem to get everything interesting I want to do by 200 or so and then doing the steel to stop space from destroying everything takes up hundreds more. I have never launched a rocket.
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Nov 13, 2018 08:18
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Meteor showers start only if you explore up to a certain altitude on the map.
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Nov 13, 2018 08:23
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I really want to make an aqua regulator so I can pipe freezing cold liquids around my base to cool it down (now that I've removed all heat sources out of my base). I've got a gas loop going filled with hydrogen at -200C but that barely dents the temperature, I'm hoping I'll have better luck with liquid cooling. How much water do I need to keep the aqua regulator cool? Also, what clean water do I need to cool down before sending into my base? AFAIK, plants and showers / toilets don't care about water temp going in, and electrolyzers don't either. So can I pipe this liquid wherever, as long as I keep it inside insulated pipes?
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Nov 13, 2018 08:35
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Plants definitely care about the temperature of the water you feed them.
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Nov 13, 2018 08:40
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enraged_camel posted:Meteor showers start only if you explore up to a certain altitude on the map. Is this actually true? The information I've seen on this topic is very conflicted.
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Nov 13, 2018 09:08
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I think it's BS, there are meteor showers from cycle 1, if you debug view a cycle 0 surface and compare it to when you finally break though, you will see the eventual erosion of the surface layer. Wait way too long and you will breach to the sight of the surface abyssalite layer being gone.
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Nov 13, 2018 09:28
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I tend to wall off space pretty early. Usually done by about cycle 200 with 6 dupes. It's not that hard just a dull couple of hours once everything is in place. Goes something like. Coal power, mushroom farm for 6, exosuits, spom, dig to oil, dig out basically all the fossils, set up metal refineries, start making steal and bunkering. At least when it's done your safe from anything but yourself. While that's underway there's usually enough downtime for a couple of dupes to wall off and insulate my main base so that's the other annoying job out the way as well.
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Nov 13, 2018 09:39
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