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Chilichimp posted:She brokered a deal for joint fundraising with the DNC that would have probably been rad as gently caress if Bernie hadn't happened, but he did and it made the funds inaccessible for candidates until the primary ended. lol you're literally saying 'she made a great deal that only worked if she had zero actual primary opposition' and wondering why people are calling it corrupt.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:43
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Eltoasto posted:It's behind a paywall so I can't see the article, but I'm not sure I would take the word of a single Dem senator that is known to be the most pro-business, talking to the business journal, as the final word on the bill. No no... all Dems are Joe Manchin and Joe Manchin is really David Duke
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Nov 11, 2018 22:43
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Peter Daou Bundy posted:obama put kids in cages, bombed the middle east, had a muslim ban. . .was known as the deporter in chief. democrats are republicans with masks on. they are NOT leftists. Not one single part of this is true. Obama won the nobel peace prize for crying out loud. I'm glad you were probated for saying mean things about, what are obviously, the good and correct people involved in US politics here in Debate and Discussion. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2018 22:43
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Fulchrum posted:The hell does that have to do with anything? If someone takes your money with the sole intent of setting it on fire and throwing it in a hole, it doesn't make it a good thing if they only got $27 from you. Normalizing leftist policies among high-profile politicians and making a leftist politician basically a shoo-in for the 2020 Democratic nomination is hardly "setting your money on fire and throwing it in a hole."
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Nov 11, 2018 22:44
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1glitch0 posted:If super delegates are so meaningless then why not get rid of them? So you are, in fact, sticking to "BIGGER NUMBER! NUMBER BIGGER IMPORTANT! MUST HONOR NUMBER!" as your only explanation. And are you goddamn kidding me? The entire length of the Democratic primary was article after article after goddamn article about how Bernie was poised for a comeback, how he could upset Hillary, how this is when he would turn it all around. It got to the point that the DNC needed to tell the media to knock it off after they kept doing it long after there wasn't a mathematical path for him to beat Hillary's delegate count. Then the leftists threw another shitfit and used that as more evidence of corruption.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:44
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Fulchrum posted:Bull. loving. poo poo. Dem policies pulled the country out of the worst economic crisis since the goddamn 30's, people didn't show up to say thank you. No-one votes to say thank you, they vote out of rage and hate. Yes, it's the blame of those darn non-voters who didn't thank the Dems for allowing banks to repossess their homes by the millions; for forcing people making $17,000/year to purchase private health insurance that came with $7,000/year deductibles; for trying to slash SS and Medicare during a Dem administration; and for sitting on their asses when it came to enacting anything to stop climate change, endless warmonging, rescission of civil liberties, and the further concentration of wealth among the elite. Keep telling them how stupid they are to not thank the Dems by voting for them. Surely, they'll believe Dem pols over their lying eyes and life experiences!
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Nov 11, 2018 22:45
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Bottom Liner posted:Ah yes, the person we let have power is certainly better because we sent a message to the dems! That's why I said I've got no problem with voting for and otherwise supporting centrists who got to where they are because they really do represent their Democratic constituency in their jurisdiction, and won their primary fair and square. Sadly, because the party leadership is on record as rigging primaries for centrist candidates in general, I've got to keep a closer eye on them, but I will give them the benefit of (a tiny bit of) doubt.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:46
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Fulchrum literally has more empathy for the dudes who shouted "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US" and killed a lady than he does for someone who feels both parties have, in their own ways, hosed the average American over. It's useless to try to appeal to that with him.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:47
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1glitch0 posted:If super delegates are so meaningless then why not get rid of them? Superdelegates may no longer vote on the first ballot - ie they may only vote if there is a brokered convention because no candidate got 50% of the pledged ballots in the primary. This is the change that Bernie’s supporters demanded and was adopted in a lopsided vote in August.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:47
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corn in the bible posted:Maybe the GOP's primaries are more fair than the DNC's The GOP eradicated their superdelegates, at least. (But proportionate-delegate primary voting is still more democratic than winner-take-all.)
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Nov 11, 2018 22:48
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:what change, friend. Let me say unequivocally, that Joe Manchin sucks, right outta the gate. You've got no reason to come at me with Joe Manchin tweets or policy ideas. He loving sucks. The changes I was referring to, I already talked about in this thread. Obama took those kids out of those cages and put them under the supervision of HHS, and while it sucks we had to take in unaccompanied kids as wards of the state, the alternative was dumping them out on the street or leaving them in the CBP cages where they had a sleeping roll and food (neither of which was gonna happen, my dude). How would you have solved the problem of kids sleeping on mats in cages?
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Nov 11, 2018 22:48
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evilweasel posted:Superdelegates may no longer vote on the first ballot - ie they may only vote if there is a brokered convention because no candidate got 50% of the pledged ballots in the primary. This is the change that Bernie’s supporters demanded and was adopted in a lopsided vote in August. Bernie was a compromise candidate too just a better compromise than others, invoking him doesn't really answer 'if super-delegates don't matter why have them?'
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Nov 11, 2018 22:49
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:YourBoyFancy very likely does far more in his daily life to pursue progressive, um, progress than 99% of people here so it’s always interesting seeing him bashed in these discussions. He has indeed wasted more of his own money and time on hopeless causes than anyone else here, I agree.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:49
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It's not the top of the page but here's a tax because I'm at the emergency vet hospital with this little guy who got into a dark chocolate bar. I hope you guys are having a better day than me 
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Nov 11, 2018 22:49
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Mr Interweb posted:https://twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/1061287157573320705 Does this person think that lawmakers pay for the bills they propose out of their own pockets?
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Nov 11, 2018 22:50
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sexpig by night posted:Fulchrum literally has more empathy for the dudes who shouted "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US" and killed a lady than he does for someone who feels both parties have, in their own ways, hosed the average American over. It's useless to try to appeal to that with him. Sexpig literally believes that anyone who opposes bestiality is just as bad as people who oppose interracial and gay marriage, and thinks that anyone who respects gay marriage but won't respect his dog loving is worse than the people who oppose both. See? I can baselessly make up poo poo about you and say it with authority too.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:50
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Mr Interweb posted:https://twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/1061287157573320705 Why it's almost like she's not some old rich white dude
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Nov 11, 2018 22:51
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sexpig by night posted:lol you're literally saying 'she made a great deal that only worked if she had zero actual primary opposition' and wondering why people are calling it corrupt. What I'm literally saying is that, yes. They tried something new and it hilariously backfired.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:51
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KillHour posted:It's not the top of the page but here's a tax because I'm at the emergency vet hospital with this little guy who got into a dark chocolate bar. Best luck to the doggo, friend.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:51
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KillHour posted:It's not the top of the page but here's a tax because I'm at the emergency vet hospital with this little guy who got into a dark chocolate bar. I hope your dog doesn't die.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:52
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Chilichimp posted:Let me say unequivocally, that Joe Manchin sucks, right outta the gate. You've got no reason to come at me with Joe Manchin tweets or policy ideas. He loving sucks. you say there is no comparison between liberals and fascists, and that calling up the last liberal president's habit of tossing kids in cages is unfair. you are presented with a prominent liberal politician, last year, calling for a toughening up of immigration standards, complete with building Trump's wall, in response to a child-stealing policy being passed. you respond "well, that guy sucks." the point is made, I feel.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:52
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Bottom Liner posted:
Man or woman? I'm having a hard time telling
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Nov 11, 2018 22:52
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1glitch0 posted:If super delegates are so meaningless then why not get rid of them? I think this is one of the biggest factors in presidential primaries, that almost always gets brushed over by defenders of the primary process. I’m having trouble finding the articles, but almost everyone published delegate numbers right off the bat that included the superdelegates for Clinton. To anyone who pays less attention to politics than this thread (95% of America), it would appear that Clinton is an insurmountable favorite and has more popularity with voters than they really do. I can almost guarantee that if the GOP used superdelegates Trump would have faded after the first Super Tuesday made him look weak as gently caress and trailing far behind the establishment pick (probably JEB!, lol).
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Nov 11, 2018 22:53
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It boggles my mind that the government can come right out and say "ok stealing from poor people is now legal if you steal enough" and people still insist that no no it's just physically impossible to prosecute crime.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:54
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Chilichimp posted:What I'm literally saying is that, yes. They tried something new and it hilariously backfired. it was a terrible thing to try, though. Like, the answer to 'hi I'm a major source of money for the party and will give you money only if I run unopposed in the primary after I got humiliated last time' is 'get the gently caress out of my office' not 'aw sweet deal', the fact that leadership took that deal A) shows how poo poo they were, and B) instantly opened them up to every accusation of favoritism they got.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:54
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https://mobile.twitter.com/LamarWhiteJr/status/1061649185110417408 Republican candidate in the Mississippi runoff jokes that she'd be in the front row if someone invited her to a public hanging.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:54
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Charliegrs posted:Does this person think that lawmakers pay for the bills they propose out of their own pockets? Nah, it's just an idiotic phrasing of the deeply-held belief many Americans have that someone who has limited wealth or privilege is in that state because they're morally deficient in some way. Rich people are rich as their reward for being good. AOC is not rich. Therefore, AOC is bad and has no right to be a congressperson. SocketWrench posted:Man or woman? I'm having a hard time telling I don't see the point in asking. They're a moron, regardless of gender.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:55
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King of Solomon posted:I don't remember the exact details, but I seem to recall the DNC being massively in debt to the Clintons, that Hillary used that joint fundraising program to siphon up almost all of the money from that program (rather than share it like she was supposed to), and that the DNC let Hillary have access to general election funds before the primary ended. you're correct on all counts
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Nov 11, 2018 22:56
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RasperFat posted:I think this is one of the biggest factors in presidential primaries, that almost always gets brushed over by defenders of the primary process. So, you are saying that this comes down entirely to how the low information, unenthusiastic voter would see this entire process. Leaving aside that someone like that wasn't going to participate in the primary to begin with, you also have the Clinton name up against a non-entity senator with no accomplishments from Vermont. Or would mentioning the candidates names also be unfair, and the media should have covered the election by calling them Mr X and Mrs Y? But if that were true, and fame were a bigger factor than delegate counts, then the candidate in the GOP primary who had the more famous name would have ended up winning. I forget, did that happen?
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Nov 11, 2018 22:57
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SocketWrench posted:Man or woman? I'm having a hard time telling This isn't necessary.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:57
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Chilichimp posted:How would you have solved the problem of kids sleeping on mats in cages? Rent out a couple of floors at a nearby Hilton instead?
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Nov 11, 2018 22:58
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Lightning Knight posted:This isn't necessary. Yeah, it says USA right on the hat.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:59
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Fulchrum posted:So, you are saying that this comes down entirely to how the low information, unenthusiastic voter would see this entire process. Leaving aside that someone like that wasn't going to participate in the primary to begin with, you also have the Clinton name up against a non-entity senator with no accomplishments from Vermont. Or would mentioning the candidates names also be unfair, and the media should have covered the election by calling them Mr X and Mrs Y? "Don't estimate and publish superdelegate votes" is a simple change that could help, with no downsides that I can think of, so why are you arguing against it?
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Nov 11, 2018 23:02
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Before the election https://twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/1059492460882247681 After the election https://twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/1060155863426428928 Keepin' it classy
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Nov 11, 2018 23:02
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Wicked Them Beats posted:Nah, it's just an idiotic phrasing of the deeply-held belief many Americans have that someone who has limited wealth or privilege is in that state because they're morally deficient in some way. Rich people are rich as their reward for being good. AOC is not rich. Therefore, AOC is bad and has no right to be a congressperson. Just wanted to know what to refer to them as before calling them a moron Lightning Knight posted:This isn't necessary. I swear to you I was legit confused. The person looks rather manish to an extent, but others referred to that person as a she. I honestly did not know. SocketWrench fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Nov 11, 2018 |
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Nov 11, 2018 23:02
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Fulchrum posted:So, you are saying that this comes down entirely to how the low information, unenthusiastic voter would see this entire process. 🎶Turns out you need those people to win a general election 🎵
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Nov 11, 2018 23:03
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Fulchrum posted:So, you are saying that this comes down entirely to how the low information, unenthusiastic voter would see this entire process. Leaving aside that someone like that wasn't going to participate in the primary to begin with, you also have the Clinton name up against a non-entity senator with no accomplishments from Vermont. Or would mentioning the candidates names also be unfair, and the media should have covered the election by calling them Mr X and Mrs Y? Every election, even primaries, come down to low information voters. The people that are intensely engaged and know policy detail and local party structure all have their votes and preferred candidate locked in. Low information people, however, might usually vote D, in the general, but only rarely engage in primaries. Clinton’s large donor money and name recognition would probably have been too much for Bernie to overcome. But pretending like there wasn’t extra weight on the scales for Hillary outside of those factors is just arguing in bad faith.
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Nov 11, 2018 23:04
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:"Don't estimate and publish superdelegate votes" is a simple change that could help, with no downsides that I can think of, so why are you arguing against it? Because I don't think trying to placate this delusion and thereby validate it will actually help. There will just be yet another thing that is the worst scandal ever to give any explanation other than the leftist candidate being a fuckup.
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Nov 11, 2018 23:05
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SocketWrench posted:Just wanted to know what to refer to them as before calling them a moron I understand, but you could just use the gender-neutral "they." Advance the cause of gender neutral pronouns and mock lovely Twitter accounts!
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Nov 11, 2018 23:06
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Fulchrum posted:Because I don't think trying to placate this delusion and thereby validate it will actually help. There will just be yet another thing that is the worst scandal ever to give any explanation other than the leftist candidate being a fuckup. again if they don't matter why have them
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Nov 11, 2018 23:06
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