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galagazombie posted:They'll make the same mistake with this Cassian thing they did with Solo. They'll have him go through his character arc from the original despite him somehow having undone said arc in time for the original. I'm not exactly looking forward to the tale of how Cassian learned to not be cynical and ruthless in time for him to be cynical and ruthless at the start of Rogue One.
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Nov 10, 2018 12:35
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Darth TNT posted:Maybe he'll slowly become cynical over the series (well defined and definitely not extended well past premium) runtime and explain why he became cynical. Being a wide eye optimist before someone shows him the world is poo poo. I hope it's K2 gradually wearing him down.
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Nov 10, 2018 20:50
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Waffles Inc. posted:then KOTOR came along and stripped the ancient era of all of its personality i haven't played kotor in at least a decade i wonder if it still holds up or would feel goofy now.
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Nov 11, 2018 04:19
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Uncle Wemus posted:i haven't played kotor in at least a decade i wonder if it still holds up or would feel goofy now. can't it be both? not the combat, though. that poo poo was already rough by the time it came out
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Nov 11, 2018 12:04
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KOTOR went way too far with the RPG elements to the point they started leaking into the story and lore itself
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Nov 11, 2018 18:43
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Vinylshadow posted:KOTOR went way too far with the RPG elements to the point they started leaking into the story and lore itself It is interesting; Darth Revan is an RPG main character who has little-to-no personality and whose stats can be maxed out, and when you put that into the Star Wars CanonTM without scaling back, he basically becomes god. He's a Force master, a great swordsman and marksman, an engineer, a scientist, a soldier, an academic, a polyglot, a statesman, a pilot, an expert military tactician and strategist who only became Dark Lord of the Sith so he could defend the galaxy from an even greater threat he found in the Unknown Regions. Later retcons even revealed that he came up with the idea that there should only ever be two Sith at a time. He's basically Darth Vader combined with Grand Admiral Thrawn with no meaningful weaknesses attributed to him. The second game had a bit of fun with the idea because Revan isn't in it but all the characters talk about how awesome he was and build up this legend around him, but then fans on the Internet all took it at face value and earnestly bought into it. And yet nobody ever complained that Darth Revan was a Mary Sue! 
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Nov 11, 2018 19:20
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KOTOR had the same cliches as Bioware's other RPGs but with none of the cleverness or playfulness of the Black Isle Studios game. That it seemed better than most was largely due to the fact that the Star Wars aesthetic provided a better coat of paint than what their later games had.
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Nov 11, 2018 19:34
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Vinylshadow posted:KOTOR went way too far with the RPG elements to the point they started leaking into the story and lore itself The whole thing got into peoples brains that the Force was like some kind of spell-book with extremely specific powers that gave you "Light" or "Dark" points. Like short-circuiting electronics was a Light Side technique now? Or how apparently you could game how good or evil you were which is how we got the godawful "Grey Jedi" BS.
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Nov 11, 2018 21:36
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galagazombie posted:The whole thing got into peoples brains that the Force was like some kind of spell-book with extremely specific powers that gave you "Light" or "Dark" points. Like short-circuiting electronics was a Light Side technique now? Or how apparently you could game how good or evil you were which is how we got the godawful "Grey Jedi" BS. That “destroy droid” is apparently a light side power is actually a devastating ideological critique.
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Nov 11, 2018 22:30
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galagazombie posted:The whole thing got into peoples brains that the Force was like some kind of spell-book with extremely specific powers that gave you "Light" or "Dark" points. Like short-circuiting electronics was a Light Side technique now? Or how apparently you could game how good or evil you were which is how we got the godawful "Grey Jedi" BS. this concept definitely pre-existed kotor by several years idk why it's being blamed for the rpgification of the force
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Nov 11, 2018 23:05
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Big Bowie Bonanza posted:this concept definitely pre-existed kotor by several years idk why it's being blamed for the rpgification of the force iirc the light side/dark side split can be traced back to one of the earliest star wars tabletop games the grey jedi i assume are from some terrible EU book series
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Nov 11, 2018 23:13
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the first time i remember really running into it was absolutely dark forces 2 and that always stuck with me way more than kotor did
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Nov 11, 2018 23:14
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Big Bowie Bonanza posted:this concept definitely pre-existed kotor by several years idk why it's being blamed for the rpgification of the force KotR is based the 3rd Edition D&D rules.
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Nov 12, 2018 00:16
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Big Bowie Bonanza posted:the first time i remember really running into it was absolutely dark forces 2 and that always stuck with me way more than kotor did I think it was the manual where they mentioned that while Lightning is inherently a dark side power, it's how you use it that matters. Which is a terrible excuse. I hope someone comes out soon and just kills the grey jedi bullshit. I want to see light vs dark.
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Nov 12, 2018 08:58
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Darth TNT posted:I think it was the manual where they mentioned that while Lightning is inherently a dark side power, it's how you use it that matters. Which is a terrible excuse. The closest the films came to it was basically just Qui-gon Jin, ie a Jedi whose interpretation of the code wasn't in line with the Council's bullshit.
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Nov 12, 2018 10:03
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Hodgepodge posted:The closest the films came to it was basically just Qui-gon Jin, ie a Jedi whose interpretation of the code wasn't in line with the Council's bullshit. Also Mace Windu, who tapped into ~*the Dark Side*~ in order to have a purple lightsaber and also hold it slightly different from the other Jedi while fighting I guess.
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Nov 12, 2018 10:17
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Schwarzwald posted:KOTOR had the same cliches as Bioware's other RPGs but with none of the cleverness or playfulness of the Black Isle Studios game. That it seemed better than most was largely due to the fact that the Star Wars aesthetic provided a better coat of paint than what their later games had. It had a few clever ideas that never really got fully explored, I really liked how the Jedi master in 2 explicitly thought both the sith and Jedi were bad for the universe
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Nov 12, 2018 12:48
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grey jedis are cool and that's why rey is cool. halfway decent person with a tonne of rage inside her that she uses to kick the poo poo out of space weenies. light/dark is just an endless rehashing of incel chuds doing a genocide every couple of years.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:35
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jfood posted:grey jedis are cool and that's why rey is cool. I found her remarkably dull myself.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:21
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Kotor is not good writing and retconned some fun stuff for some much more boring art direction but its not where weird codification comes from because those rpg books are way older.
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Nov 12, 2018 15:24
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also kotor was way better than that silly rear end space boat
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Nov 12, 2018 15:27
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Rey is just straightforwardly a dark side character.
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Nov 12, 2018 16:17
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People on the so-called "dark side" are generally guilty of nothing but putting themselves before others; there is nothing particularly immoral about that.
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Nov 12, 2018 16:19
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the only grey jedi that i've remotely been interested in is still jolee bindo purely because he manages to be grey while keeping to a code of his own whereas all the other greys seem to just swap back and forth between light and dark like they're switching teams or have vastly inconsistent moral compasses
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Nov 12, 2018 16:20
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Big Bowie Bonanza posted:the only grey jedi that i've remotely been interested in is still jolee bindo purely because he manages to be grey while keeping to a code of his own whereas all the other greys seem to just swap back and forth between light and dark like they're switching teams or have vastly inconsistent moral compasses I don't think Jolee is much of a grey Jedi as he is a Jedi who is no longer affiliated with the Order. He still does good where he can, he even specifically asks you to not kill the Sith officers in the way of your quest, even if it's the most expedient method.
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Nov 12, 2018 16:56
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Grey jedi always seemed too much like "I'm a vegetarian but sometimes I eat meat when I want to" to me
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Nov 12, 2018 17:54
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SolarFire2 posted:I don't think Jolee is much of a grey Jedi as he is a Jedi who is no longer affiliated with the Order. He still does good where he can, he even specifically asks you to not kill the Sith officers in the way of your quest, even if it's the most expedient method. So he's just a Protestant Jedi
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Nov 12, 2018 18:07
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Modern canon has framed it a little better, I feel. Someone like Ashoka, who is no longer part of the Jedi order but still tries to do good.
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Nov 12, 2018 18:12
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Luke was a grey Jedi by all EU definitions and yet he's still in his own words just a basic Jedi
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Nov 12, 2018 19:35
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luke is definitely the protestant jedi to the prequel trilogy's catholics
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Nov 12, 2018 19:41
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In that case I’m glad he’s dead
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Nov 12, 2018 20:19
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The grey jedi/gray jedi schism of 69 BBY
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Nov 12, 2018 20:38
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"Gray Jedism" is moronic because there is no "Light Jedism' and "Dark Jedism".
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Nov 12, 2018 21:03
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There is only penis
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Nov 12, 2018 21:05
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Big Bowie Bonanza posted:luke is definitely the protestant jedi to the prequel trilogy's catholics Yeah, Luke was an essentially good guy and they were evil. It fits. And obviously Luke went bad when, like John Wilkes Booth, he converted to Catholicism later in life. And much like most Catholics have never read the Bible, Luke never read the ancient Jedi texts; underlining this is the fact that he is helpless until the Pope (Yoda), who he, as Catholic, worships instead of God, shows up and tells him what to do. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 21:40
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:"Gray Jedism" is moronic because there is no "Light Jedism' and "Dark Jedism". Jivjov are there dark and light jedi?
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Nov 12, 2018 21:55
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Bark Jedi
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Nov 12, 2018 21:56
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There are Jedi of every race, as well as Sith, who mostly seem to be white, especially in the case of Asajj Ventress.
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Nov 12, 2018 22:05
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:There is only penis More to the point, Obi Wan's exposed penis, when he fakes his death and hides in the death star completely nude, only to be blown up by Luke later anyway
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Nov 12, 2018 22:46
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I Before E posted:There are Jedi of every race, as well as Sith, who mostly seem to be white, especially in the case of Asajj Ventress. Ventress isn’t a Sith, she’s just a Queer Force User
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Nov 12, 2018 23:12
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