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Leperflesh posted:He said it gave him night terrors for a solid month. I want to correct this because it is important. He claims he did not sleep for a 25 days afterwards. The record for going without sleep is 11 days.
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Nov 12, 2018 20:15
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Leperflesh posted:He said it gave him night terrors for a solid month. It was in the context of a discussion on the patriarchy. He said that lobsters from hierarchies, therefore hierarchies are natural and predate human culture. This implies that he thinks unjust social hierarchies created by humans are part of the natural order, and therefore correct. But since he doesn't say that precisely, he gets to accuse critics of strawmanning him when they try to extract any meaning from his statements. The planets thing is his Next Level Take on the same issue.
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Nov 12, 2018 20:24
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Serf posted:i'll see you the wrong lobster analogy and raise you the new hotness: Is this the modern version of claiming that, like, your greatness and correctness are foretold in the stars or something? Like, "That star over there governs my fate and it is ascending in the house of Mars, so clearly I will be victorious in battle and you're a moron for doubting me."
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Nov 12, 2018 20:26
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Nuns with Guns posted:It was in the context of a discussion on the patriarchy. The association of 'natural' and 'good' is always a stupid one. Y'know what's natural? Eating raw food and wearing no clothes.
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Nov 12, 2018 20:27
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Sage Genesis posted:Is this the modern version of claiming that, like, your greatness and correctness are foretold in the stars or something? Like, "That star over there governs my fate and it is ascending in the house of Mars, so clearly I will be victorious in battle and you're a moron for doubting me." jupiter is bigger than mercury and this is why communism is bad
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Nov 12, 2018 20:30
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Serf posted:jupiter is bigger than mercury and this is why communism is bad I feel like there's an Exalted plothook in here somewhere.
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Nov 12, 2018 20:34
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Sage Genesis posted:Is this the modern version of claiming that, like, your greatness and correctness are foretold in the stars or something? Like, "That star over there governs my fate and it is ascending in the house of Mars, so clearly I will be victorious in battle and you're a moron for doubting me." No, it's much simpler than that. He's not suggesting secret knowledge that can be divined by mystical methods; I swear half the time when people try to criticize Peterson they make him sound much more interesting than he actually is. He's saying that social inequality is normal because some physical things are not equal to other physical things. A better writer with the same awful premise would have just said "domination of the weak by the strong is as inevitable as gravity," but that would ruin the plausible deniability. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Nov 12, 2018 |
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Nov 12, 2018 20:46
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He also understands 'equal' to mean 'literally identical' and 'unequal' to mean 'differences exist.' This conflation is the basic justification for a hierarchical, unjust society that appears in his work as far as I can tell. After that it's all about arguing that every inequality is justified by a specific difference.
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Nov 12, 2018 20:54
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Mors Rattus posted:I think my new life goal is to argue that nothing I do can be wrong because of the way rocks move in curves in space.
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Nov 12, 2018 21:20
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Mors Rattus posted:The association of 'natural' and 'good' is always a stupid one. Y'know what's natural? Eating raw food and wearing no clothes. Steak tartare and oysters in the buff sounds like a great evening to me.
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Nov 13, 2018 00:40
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I remember back when I wasn't filler on an TG forum that I met Luke Crane, and described him to a friend. His response was "Oh, I thought that was just a character he acted out online, I didn't think he really acted that way."
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Nov 13, 2018 01:24
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Mors Rattus posted:The association of 'natural' and 'good' is always a stupid one. Y'know what's natural? Eating raw food and wearing no clothes. Shockingly, that's not even true! Cooking predates homo sapiens by something around a million years or so. Early hominids developed it and it let them eat basically anything.
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Nov 13, 2018 02:13
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FishFood posted:Shockingly, that's not even true! Cooking predates homo sapiens by something around a million years or so. Early hominids developed it and it let them eat basically anything.
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Nov 13, 2018 03:44
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Clothes predate H. sapiens as well. Clear evidence of sewn clothes show up close enough to the emergence of anatomically modern humans that they either predate humans, or were essentially humans first unique invention. cooking, clothing, basically all melee and ranged weapons to make fighting easier, and complex religious rituals usually putting women at the center of some form of cosmology and all that all predate 'us' as far as homo sapiens go, yea. So anyone saying that our natural state is some misogynistic brawling raw meat eating monkey man is full of crap. We're the pampered baby evolution that survived because we were smart enough to take all the good poo poo everyone else already was doing.
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Nov 13, 2018 04:33
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It wouldn't matter even if we did gobble down raw meat in caves recently; biological determinism id fundamentally horseshit. Instincts do not have moral value. We can choose how to behave, and therefore we must choose to behave well.
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Nov 13, 2018 04:52
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sexpig by night posted:cooking, clothing, basically all melee and ranged weapons to make fighting easier, and complex religious rituals usually putting women at the center of some form of cosmology and all that all predate 'us' as far as homo sapiens go, yea. So anyone saying that our natural state is some misogynistic brawling raw meat eating monkey man is full of crap. We're the pampered baby evolution that survived because we were smart enough to take all the good poo poo everyone else already was doing. However, the underlying argument is definitely correct - there's no evidence that patriarchal hierarchies are more "natural" than any other way of generally organizing ourselves, and there's been no point where H. sapiens has not used tools and fire to modify ourselves and our environment.
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Nov 13, 2018 04:52
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Even if there were a powerful biological drive to create paternal societies, that would in no way justify them, any more than the powerful biological drive to mate justifies rape. We have the capacity and understanding to overcome and moderate instincts.
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Nov 13, 2018 05:01
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I have had a profound biological incentive to mate for a long rear end time but have always followed strict rules of informed consent. Like to the point an ex got mad about it. I also have a biological need to eat but no one thinks it’s special that I don’t shank a dude on the train for his shawarma or whatever. Hot take : burn the patriarchy???? Really hating being a white het cis dude. Like what the gently caress. Just stop being terrible. It’s not hard. I do it all the time. gently caress
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Nov 13, 2018 06:07
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Please don't hate yourself. What's necessary is humility, not self-loathing; if nothing else, the latter is still all about you.
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Nov 13, 2018 06:11
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Xiahou Dun posted:Really hating being a white het cis dude. Like what the gently caress. Just stop being terrible. It’s not hard. I do it all the time. gently caress Legit? This is part of how the far right has radicalized a lot of people. Surreptitiously signal boost the most divisive and hostile "Actually Kill All Men" types, cultivate an increasingly hostile culture in social media where everyone is at everyone else's throat over drummed-up issues, poke and prod all sides until rolling firestorms start, go find the white guys who've collapsed into exhausted self-loathing or begun to get sick of "those goddamn SJWs" (that the alt-right turns into unwitting sock puppets), and stoke that into spite and anger. We legit live in a world where Gamergate was a huge part of what made Nazis claw their way back into being a relevant international threat. Remember, that poo poo started on 4chan, not long after /pol/ was re-opened. They were watching and taking notes, at minimum - and even 4chan's regular users realized that a bunch of the racism and reactionary -gate poo poo was from /pol/ sock puppets and pushed back until everyone sane just gave up and left. So what I'm saying is, for real, from one white guy to another? Don't do that poo poo. Don't adopt that guilt, don't internalize that venom, just continue being a decent person and letting your own nature speak for itself. Not only that but a lot of these people are just teenagers and college kids who've been whipped into a frenzy by the actual chuds exploiting the generational insecurity that's been looming like the Sword of Damocles over anybody born after 1985.
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Nov 13, 2018 06:44
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Xiahou Dun posted:Really hating being a white het cis dude. Like what the gently caress. Just stop being terrible. It’s not hard. I do it all the time. gently caress - Recognize and confront your own internal biases - Donate to social justice causes (if you can afford to) - Call out bigotry where you see it (but not in a performative way)
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Nov 13, 2018 07:31
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A ton of the cishet white men who keep going on about how terrible cishet white men are have turned out to be various flavours of woke sex creeps or covering for them as well. It's a toxic attitude all around, and probably a perfect case of how guilt and self-loathing can just be an expression of narcissism.
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Nov 13, 2018 09:45
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It's almost like being a well adjusted human that's aware of prejudice both systemically and individually and takes action to check it doesn't require extensive self-flagellation or something.
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Nov 13, 2018 10:51
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neaden posted:I want to correct this because it is important. He claims he did not sleep for a 25 days afterwards. The record for going without sleep is 11 days. Also Jordan Peterson: (ridiculous hyperbole, bizarre and vague analogies, and poo poo which never happened)
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Nov 13, 2018 13:02
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Warthur posted:Jordan Peterson: "Be precise in your speech!" The dude is one of the last serious Jungians doing talks. So in his mind this is all discussion makes prefect sense-- he's talking about these universal archetypes that everyone should be able to follow. He's also the best working example of why Jungianism and Freudianism are non-scientific garbage. Those are sort of cool concepts for a video game (i.b. Persona) but they aren't anything that fits in with observed reality.
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Nov 13, 2018 13:51
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Ghost Leviathan posted:A ton of the cishet white men who keep going on about how terrible cishet white men are have turned out to be various flavours of woke sex creeps or covering for them as well. It's a toxic attitude all around, and probably a perfect case of how guilt and self-loathing can just be an expression of narcissism. When I did Occupy I saw that there's a bunch of really toxic leftists who use identity and a cover/excuse to make it All About Them.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:58
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Elephant Parade posted:Beating yourself up will accomplish literally nothing. It will, in fact, accomplish negative amounts of things. Here is the Straight White Male Programme (or at least the version of it that I follow): -signal boost minority voices -support minority creators -leverage your privilege to promote those being oppressed
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Nov 13, 2018 19:06
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MollyMetroid posted:-signal boost minority voices Yeah that's exactly the kind of thing that Occupy did, and look at how it turned out.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:52
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Yeah that's exactly the kind of thing that Occupy did, and look at how it turned out. are you REALLY gonna take a stand against the idea of supporting the marginalized
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Nov 13, 2018 19:54
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Reminder for lurkers: This is a thread about the tabletop rpg and board game industry.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:54
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Mors Rattus posted:are you REALLY gonna take a stand against the idea of supporting the marginalized No you can absolutely do these things and should but they don't solve the structural problems. It's not an either/or, I'm saying you can't stop there. To bring it around to this thread, you won't fix the problems with the toxic grog community by buying Ehdrigohr.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:02
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Plutonis posted:Reminder for lurkers: This is a thread about the tabletop rpg and board game industry. Tabletop rpgs are serious business
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Nov 13, 2018 20:08
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:No you can absolutely do these things and should but they don't solve the structural problems. It's not an either/or, I'm saying you can't stop there. To bring it around to this thread, you won't fix the problems with the toxic grog community by buying Ehdrigohr. by all means, lay the solution on us brother
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Nov 13, 2018 20:18
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:No you can absolutely do these things and should but they don't solve the structural problems. It's not an either/or, I'm saying you can't stop there. To bring it around to this thread, you won't fix the problems with the toxic grog community by buying Ehdrigohr. You can do a lot of good by purchasing products made by marginalized people, calling out for companies to hire sensitivity readers, organizing boycotts of companies that refuse to do so, and promoting the voices and works of marginalized activists in the gaming community, while also decrying the actions of bad actors. Like, I don't see any reason for you to call out this kind of action unless you're actually a poo poo head? No, it may not be a complete solution but it's a critical part of any viable long-term growth in the community.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:20
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Serf posted:by all means, lay the solution on us brother You already know what it is, Serf. It's the hard work of organizing and confronting systemic capital. It's canvassing and phone banking for progressives, it's joining local organizations that strengthen the community, not supporting corporatists, it's all that other poo poo work, and it's a ton harder then throwing bucks at a PoC or retweeting the latest police brutality on the TL which is stuff that fits comfortably in the framework of capitalism and social media slacktivism. Now I know it's beyond most people to do this so I'm not haranguing anyone who can't. I'm not saying those things are bad to do - they are good. They are also stopgaps that don't fix the actual problems. I literally watched Occupy sit around and "signal boost marginalized voices" right up until the cops cracked their loving heads and it left a real impact on me.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:29
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:You already know what it is, Serf. It's the hard work of organizing and confronting systemic capital. It's canvassing and phone banking for progressives, it's joining local organizations that strengthen the community, not supporting corporatists, it's all that other poo poo work, and it's a ton harder then throwing bucks at a PoC or retweeting the latest police brutality on the TL which is stuff that fits comfortably in the framework of capitalism and social media slacktivism. Now I know it's beyond most people to do this so I'm not haranguing anyone who can't. I'm not saying those things are bad to do - they are good. They are also stopgaps that don't fix the actual problems. I literally watched Occupy sit around and "signal boost marginalized voices" right up until the cops cracked their loving heads and it left a real impact on me. Plutonis posted:Reminder for lurkers: This is a thread about the tabletop rpg and board game industry.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:32
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I'm not a lurker, I post regularly in this thread. And I'm responding to a question, if you guys drop it I will too.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:33
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:You already know what it is, Serf. It's the hard work of organizing and confronting systemic capital. It's canvassing and phone banking for progressives, it's joining local organizations that strengthen the community, not supporting corporatists, it's all that other poo poo work, and it's a ton harder then throwing bucks at a PoC or retweeting the latest police brutality on the TL which is stuff that fits comfortably in the framework of capitalism and social media slacktivism. Now I know it's beyond most people to do this so I'm not haranguing anyone who can't. I'm not saying those things are bad to do - they are good. They are also stopgaps that don't fix the actual problems. I literally watched Occupy sit around and "signal boost marginalized voices" right up until the cops cracked their loving heads and it left a real impact on me. seems like you're pulling in some unrelated baggage of your own into a discussion about elfgames and the shittiness of the community Plutonis posted:Reminder for lurkers: This is a thread about the tabletop rpg and board game industry.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:34
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The problems with the RPG industry can't be fixed within the industry, they are universal to capitalism and require a systemic political change across the entire globe. There, we're done. Hope that's not too much baggage for y'all
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Nov 13, 2018 20:38
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The problems with the RPG industry can't be fixed within the industry, they are universal to capitalism and require a systemic political change across the entire globe. There, we're done. Hope that's not too much baggage for y'all The question is about how people can use their privilege to help marginalized people within the industry. While yes, destroying capitalism will help, it's a little bit beyond the reach of individual actors within the analog games community, or heck, beyond the community as a whole considering its small size and reach. I'm not saying that people shouldn't work against capitalism and other forms of systematic oppression, and I would, in fact, argue that games can be a useful framework for thinking about creating post-oppressive societies and imagining the road map to getting there. I'm also saying that the best thing that a cishet white dude can do to help marginalized folks in the analog games community and industry is to support and signal boost them. If they want to work on the larger systemic flaws of our society, that's also a worthwhile activity, but, again, outside of the scope of the current avenue of discussion. It is possible to focus on improving the status of marginalized folks within one's community without fixing things globally. Also, removing capitalism won't necessary erase racism, homophobia, transphobia, albeism, anti-semitism, Islamophobia, or any of the other vectors of oppression that our society operates on. Those issues can be addressed through greater community awareness and the elevation of marginalized voices.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:41
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