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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Nah it was good. The only thing worse than that movie was that cameo.
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Nov 13, 2018 07:16
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I understand those of you who think Stan should be left to rest, but I'm pretty sure Stan himself would love to have gaudy CG cameos in every Marvel movie made until the end of time.
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Nov 13, 2018 12:12
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So is Stan Lee cool now? I thought I read a load of stuff over the years on how he totally shafted Kirby, and that Kirby was the real creative genius behind Marvel whilst Lee was the business guy. I always liked him though.
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Nov 13, 2018 12:24
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kaesarsosei posted:So is Stan Lee cool now? I thought I read a load of stuff over the years on how he totally shafted Kirby, and that Kirby was the real creative genius behind Marvel whilst Lee was the business guy. I always liked him though. I think for a long time the narrative was that Stan was the genius who created everything while nobody else really mattered. Then as a counter to that, popular opinion became that he was a bit of a shyster who dicked everybody over and took credit for stuff that he had no involvement in. I get the feeling now that people have settled on the truth being somewhere in the middle. Stan's influence in some areas might have been overstated, but its also incredibly simplistic to just say that it was 100% Kirby or Ditko. I might be a naive idiot, but I look on them as unequal collaborations that only endure because the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
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Nov 13, 2018 12:32
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kaesarsosei posted:So is Stan Lee cool now? I thought I read a load of stuff over the years on how he totally shafted Kirby, and that Kirby was the real creative genius behind Marvel whilst Lee was the business guy. I always liked him though. That mostly comes from someone posting a newspaper interview with Kirby on the web 1.0 with all the fact-checking of the claims of the then-senile Kirby conveniently left out. Stan contributed as much as Kirby and Ditko to early Marvel, but he was also the only one who had to handle the business and promotion side of things, so he made decisions that were lovely as a creative partner because he thought they were necessary as someone trying to keep the company in the black. He was an egomaniac happy to take credit for everything that wasn't nailed down but he never denied anyone else's contributions either. There's a lot to criticize him for over the years, but the idea that Jack Kirby did everything by himself (which is really rude to Steve Ditko, Don Heck and the other early Marvel contributors) and then evil Stan Lee took all the credit and money is about as true as the people who think Mr. Rogers was a sniper.
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Nov 13, 2018 12:43
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My pretty vague and probably not totally accurate read of it was that Kirby is more responsible on the worldbuilding aspect, the design of characters, stuff like that, but Stan Lee is much more responsible for the more grounded storytelling and political relevance side of Marvel. Kirby's Black Panther was a cool scifi tale, but it took until he left for Black Panther to start addressing US racial politics. Similarly, Ditko drew Spiderman, but the With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility business is pretty anathema to Ditko's politics and a lot to do with Stan Lee. You have to think in terms of how all of these characters developed after their initial creation, and basically Kirby etc just weren't around for that, while Stan was at the helm.
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Nov 13, 2018 12:52
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Yea in later years, Lee was straight up talking about working with Jack and Steve and the rest on stuff, so he seemed to be more willing to admit it wasn't just all him.
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Nov 13, 2018 13:38
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kaesarsosei posted:So is Stan Lee cool now? I thought I read a load of stuff over the years on how he totally shafted Kirby, and that Kirby was the real creative genius behind Marvel whilst Lee was the business guy. I always liked him though. Oh, he's a pretty big piece of poo poo for a few reasons. People have always liked him, though.
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Nov 13, 2018 13:39
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Lee did bad stuff but also did important things for the medium of comics that are not in dispute. He’s still absolutely a legend.
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Nov 13, 2018 15:44
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You're telling me he wasn't perfect? Jesus christ what a monster
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Nov 13, 2018 15:49
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Collapsing Farts posted:You're telling me he wasn't perfect? He liked beans in his chilli.
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Nov 13, 2018 16:09
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Rhyno posted:He liked beans in his chilli. So he liked chili too? He truly was a hero.
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Nov 13, 2018 16:29
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Rhyno posted:He liked beans in his chilli. *flips table* MOTHERFUCKER
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Nov 13, 2018 16:57
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Rhyno posted:He liked beans in his chilli. Chili without beans is just greasy meat soup, so in this case Stan was absolutely correct don’t @ me
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Nov 13, 2018 17:28
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Chili without beans is just greasy meat soup, so in this case Stan was absolutely correct
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Nov 13, 2018 17:41
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The best cameo was in the Teen Titans Go movie and they should just use that from now on.
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Nov 13, 2018 17:53
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It is too bad he'll never make an appearance in a good FF movie.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:21
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When Marvel studios finally gets around to making a Fantastic 4 movie/streaming show they can cut out and insert his scenes from the Tim Story movies.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:52
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I always thought of it as Stan Lee giving a face to Marvel that people could latch onto, as opposed to muddying things up with "Here's a bunch of guys that did some stuff." Like, Disney isn't all Mickey Mouse, but Mickey Mouse is the figurehead of Disney. Stan Lee made himself known as THE guy, but I never felt like it was at the expense of anyone else.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:56
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His work as a Marvel Ambassador was legitimately valuable to the company years after he had stopped writing, even if it essentially doubled as self-promotion. In fact at one point in the 90s I believe they tried to fire him because they felt he wasn't doing anything for them and their media and con contacts kinda dried up and they had to hire him back.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:21
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Collapsing Farts posted:You're telling me he wasn't perfect? Guy had a bunch of sexual assault and harassment allegations following him into the grave. You don't have to minimize everything with desperate, reaching sense of ironic detachment.
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Nov 13, 2018 21:14
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Dan Didio posted:Guy had a bunch of sexual assault and harassment allegations following him into the grave. You don't have to minimize everything with desperate, reaching sense of ironic detachment. Yeah Stan Lee hit on my mom at Motor City Comic Con 2013. Even though I'm already inclined to believe women I definitely believe he would do this. Koalas March fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Nov 13, 2018 |
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Nov 13, 2018 21:23
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Lee was the face of Marvel and pretty much if it wasn't for his constant promoting of the brand the characters we no or love might not be around anymore. For better or worse, Lee was the pitchman who made sure everyone knew who Spiderman and the X-Men and Fantastic Four were.
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Nov 13, 2018 21:32
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Koalas Massacre posted:Yeah Stan Lee hit on my mom at Motor City Comic Con 2013. Even though I'm already inclined to believe women I definitely believe he would do this. Old men think they can do this with impunity because "Hey I'm an old man lol! You can't feel threatened by me!" It's gross PS. Sorry for the extra sass I gave you in the other thread
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Nov 13, 2018 21:34
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Old men think they can do this with impunity because "Hey I'm an old man lol! You can't feel threatened by me!" It's gross Well I thought it was funny at the time because I was a young shithead and she had no idea who he was. It was a running joke in our family for awhile which is super hosed up in hindsight.
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Nov 13, 2018 21:56
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Unless something else has come up that I'm unaware of (which is entirely possible), the only source of the claims made against Stan Lee are anonymous women quoted in Daily Mail articles. While other outlets reported the story, they all used the Daily Mail as their primary source. To say the Daily Mail is not a credible source is putting it mildly.
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Nov 13, 2018 22:13
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Lurdiak posted:Unless something else has come up that I'm unaware of (which is entirely possible), the only source of the claims made against Stan Lee are anonymous women quoted in Daily Mail articles. While other outlets reported the story, they all used the Daily Mail as their primary source. To say the Daily Mail is not a credible source is putting it mildly. Nonsense. The Daily Mail is a very vital source of news. Without their Snapchat feed, I would never know about the Kardashian's nipples.
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Nov 13, 2018 22:35
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Well, the Daily Mail and this thread.
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Nov 13, 2018 22:45
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I don’t recall any allegations coming up in the book about Marvel by Sean Howe who was pretty thorough.
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Nov 13, 2018 22:55
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Lurdiak posted:Unless something else has come up that I'm unaware of (which is entirely possible), the only source of the claims made against Stan Lee are anonymous women quoted in Daily Mail articles. While other outlets reported the story, they all used the Daily Mail as their primary source. To say the Daily Mail is not a credible source is putting it mildly. A massage therapist sued him after those first batch of allegations.
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Nov 13, 2018 23:02
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I think the best summary about Stan's contributions to Marvel is this old article from Chris Sims that calls him "simultaneously the most overrated and underrated creator of all time".
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Nov 13, 2018 23:15
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Dan Didio posted:A massage therapist sued him after those first batch of allegations. Filing a lawsuit doesn't mean the allegations were true.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:33
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Are we still doing this?
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Nov 14, 2018 03:52
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Jeff Lemire's Black Hammer has been optioned for movies and television. It is about a group of heroes who find themselves trapped in a small farm community that they are unable to leave.
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Nov 14, 2018 04:06
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Koalas Massacre posted:Yeah Stan Lee hit on my mom at Motor City Comic Con 2013. Even though I'm already inclined to believe women I definitely believe he would do this. Have you ever been around dementia patients? That poo poo does not come on instantly and often manifests as inappropriately behavior. Given his last years I wouldn’t really go judging him for poo poo he said when he was 90. (For context, worked as an EMT in an area with a lot of dementia patients, and had a lot of weird poo poo go down to the point I usually wanted an extra person in the ambulance with me as a witness with certain patients) Ugly In The Morning fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Nov 14, 2018 |
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Nov 14, 2018 04:11
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SonicRulez posted:Filing a lawsuit doesn't mean the allegations were true. Go on.
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Nov 14, 2018 06:52
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Koalas Massacre posted:Well I thought it was funny at the time because I was a young shithead and she had no idea who he was. It was a running joke in our family for awhile which is super hosed up in hindsight. I don't think "hitting on someone" is "super hosed up". You make it sound like he groped your mother or something, which would be super hosed up
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Nov 14, 2018 12:57
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https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1062870147885490176?s=19
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Nov 15, 2018 02:31
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God, if only I could excise the words "Harley Quinn spinoff" from that headline
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Nov 15, 2018 03:11
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The other day I got to see a screening of Ralph Breaks the Internet. A very small spoiler, but Stan Lee shows up during the Disney website section. This viewing was happening the day Stan died, so the whole theater let out a sad, "Aw..."
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Nov 15, 2018 05:42
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