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Why would you turn AIS ever
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Nov 13, 2018 05:09
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Casimir Radon posted:Vat are you zinking about? lol i got that ref
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Nov 13, 2018 05:48
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Stairmaster posted:Why would you turn AIS ever If you're a warship and don't want literally the entirety of seafaring nations to know where you are, for example. In a busy port on your own coast? Probably a good time to turn it on.
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Nov 13, 2018 07:30
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Welp it sunk some more.
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Nov 13, 2018 12:11
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It seems like they got really lucky that there was no loss of life with the extent of holes in the hull
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Nov 13, 2018 14:09
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Casimir Radon posted:Vat are you zinking about? A good commercial.
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Nov 13, 2018 14:28
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aphid_licker posted:It seems like they got really lucky that there was no loss of life with the extent of holes in the hull Considering the amount of fuckups involved, this was mostly dumb luck that it didn't hit at a slightly different angle that would have mulched some of the crew. As for anything that happened afterwards, well... I sailed on these ships for 3 years, and I'm happy I got out when I did.
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Nov 13, 2018 16:26
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I think that guy has the all time record for most monetary damage caused due to a fuckup in this thread.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:03
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Nov 13, 2018 18:04
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The Valley Stared posted:It's a lot of failures all lining up at the same time: Someone on the bridge not watching or misinterpreting what they're seeing, someone in combat not seeing the entire radar picture, deciding to not have your most experienced people driving the ship during a high traffic area, things like that and all happening at the same time. Crew fatigue can also play a huge role. The Swiss Cheese Model or whatever. I think that's a little too simple for the complexity of the issues but it helps as an analytical tool. I did a report on part of this for a change management class among others and part of my questions now center on the culture of the organization and its rigidity vs flexibility. If you clearly define how every single operation must be done and create a rigid structure to prevent accidents, what happens when an unforeseen event occurs and you have no flexibility? Risk is hard to estimate so there's a good chance they either thought they were safer/better than they actually were or they had a level of inexperience insufficient for the task and didn't need to make any changes.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:14
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lightpole posted:
Arguably, it also appears that the crew of the frigate may have had juuuuust the perfect amount of inexperience for the task.
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Nov 13, 2018 18:26
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Oh yeah, that's done.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:13
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Ooh. Ooh yes that’s quite a bit worse than yesterday.
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Nov 13, 2018 19:27
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If they knew the tanker was there, and they couldn’t work out a safe way to go around, why didn’t they just stop and wait for it to pass...? Am I crazy? I don’t know anything about ships, but isn’t that a no-brainer?
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Nov 13, 2018 19:28
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canyoneer posted:the crash looks like it tore off the ship's barcode too, so even if they had made it back into port they'd have no way to scandinavian. I’m giggling like a jackass, thank you this hungover cq shift ain’t so bad now
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Nov 13, 2018 19:47
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Vengarr posted:If they knew the tanker was there, and they couldn’t work out a safe way to go around, why didn’t they just stop and wait for it to pass...? Am I crazy? I don’t know anything about ships, but isn’t that a no-brainer? It's the military
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Nov 13, 2018 20:19
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AGGGGH BEES posted:I think that guy has the all time record for most monetary damage caused due to a fuckup in this thread. It’s like he saw the whoopsie that guy had with the F16 and figured he could do one better.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:35
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Vengarr posted:If they knew the tanker was there, and they couldn’t work out a safe way to go around, why didn’t they just stop and wait for it to pass...? Am I crazy? I don’t know anything about ships, but isn’t that a no-brainer? Ships can’t really “stop.” The best they can do to slow themselves rapidly is to throw everything in reverse. Honestly not super duper up on how well an OHP Frigate can slow, but it’s not something you do often or in traffic.
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Nov 13, 2018 20:36
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Mr. Nice! posted:Ships can’t really “stop.” The best they can do to slow themselves rapidly is to throw everything in reverse. Honestly not super duper up on how well an OHP Frigate can slow, but it’s not something you do often or in traffic. When you said 'in traffic' for some reason I got this image of the helmsman bang shifting the FFG to pass.
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Nov 13, 2018 21:09
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Ugly In The Morning posted:It’s like he saw the whoopsie that guy had with the F16 and figured he could do one better. More like the guy who scrapped a nuclear attack submarine because he wanted to go home early.
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Nov 13, 2018 21:11
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So what's the next step for the frigate - I'm guessing a 90% submerge means it's pretty much hosed, or can it be refloated and restored/repaired? I'm also guessing whatever happens, they'll need to decommission it, remove missiles from the VLS etc? Also how many russian subs/frogmen are hovering around that area right now? 
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Nov 13, 2018 21:59
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DrAlexanderTobacco posted:So what's the next step for the frigate - I'm guessing a 90% submerge means it's pretty much hosed, or can it be refloated and restored/repaired? Even the russians won't be mad enough to swim into that boat, it's hardly stable. They're going to salvage it, lift it on a barge and move it to the main naval base, as far as I've heard. It's also 100% hosed. Before this last change, I would have called it 60-80% hosed. Watertight compartments get compromised after a while as hatch seals and hatches give in to the water pressure, especially as the boat settles deeper.
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Nov 13, 2018 22:19
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Turn it into a USS Buttercup style vessel.
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Nov 13, 2018 22:24
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Mr. Nice! posted:Ships can’t really “stop.” The best they can do to slow themselves rapidly is to throw everything in reverse. Honestly not super duper up on how well an OHP Frigate can slow, but it’s not something you do often or in traffic. Well, it's not like they would have had to slow down fully to avoid a collision. They knew the tanker was there well in advance, right?
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Nov 13, 2018 22:30
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how exactly do you salvage or refloat a boat?
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Nov 13, 2018 22:44
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AGGGGH BEES posted:I think that guy has the all time record for most monetary damage caused due to a fuckup in this thread. Well, if we count near misses then waaaayy early on in the stinking depths of the thread I remember somebody admitting to accidentally invading Syria via some incompetent map-reading and nearly causing a major international incident. There but for the grace of God etc etc.
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Nov 13, 2018 22:58
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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:how exactly do you salvage or refloat a boat? You fill enough of the internal spaces with air bags to force the water out so that you regain positive buoyancy, then you use something like this to get it back to drydock/the salvage yard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Blue_Marlin
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Nov 13, 2018 23:00
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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:how exactly do you salvage or refloat a boat? I think every job is a custom job, but here’s a ferry that got refloated by a few insane engineers. I think they could displace water in the various compartments with compressed air, hauling it up with a gigantic claw-thing (Project Jennifer by the CIA did this to steal part of a Russian sub), or (in a feat of insane engineering), slide a bunch of straps under the ship, haul it up to what looks like a sunken dock, then float that dock over a ship that can lift the formerly-sunken ship out of the water. https://youtu.be/a7WmvIC4hZQ
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Nov 13, 2018 23:02
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Fill it full of ping pong balls
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Nov 13, 2018 23:04
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If you're the CIA in the 1970s trying to "recover" a lost soviet submarine, you build a big-rear end erector set and pin it on Howard Hughes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Azorian
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Nov 13, 2018 23:54
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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:how exactly do you salvage or refloat a boat? You know how ducks float? You tie ducks to it.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:00
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sharknado slashfic posted:You know how ducks float? You tie ducks to it. You know, dead bodies float too 
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Nov 14, 2018 00:04
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You're not allowed to dive at the sites of WWII shipwrecks because they are considered war graves. This is a career grave, so it's probably safe.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:08
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sharknado slashfic posted:You know how ducks float? You tie ducks to it. Can we tie witches to it instead? Granted, it's dicey. If they're not really witches, they're not terribly buoyant, but I think this is an avenue worth pursuit.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:09
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Here’s an old but gold article on sea salvage https://www.wired.com/2008/02/ff-seacowboys/amp
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Nov 14, 2018 00:11
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As Nero Danced posted:If you're the CIA in the 1970s trying to "recover" a lost soviet submarine, you build a big-rear end erector set and pin it on Howard Hughes. Still one of the coolest damned things after Apollo that we did as a country. canyoneer posted:You're not allowed to dive at the sites of WWII shipwrecks because they are considered war graves. Doesn't stop everyone: https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2017/nov/03/worlds-biggest-grave-robbery-asias-disappearing-ww2-shipwrecks Basically, they are dropping explosives on deep water sunken warships and using cranes/magnets to salvage pre-nuclear era warship metal.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:19
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CommieGIR posted:[/url] This annoys the poo poo out of me because you can make low background steel today, you just have to filter the air really really well.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:29
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Midjack posted:This annoys the poo poo out of me because you can make low background steel today, you just have to filter the air really really well. yeah but 
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Nov 14, 2018 00:31
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I was weirdly reading about other salvage today about the Ocean Ranger, a massive offshore drilling rig that sank off the coast of Newfoundland. A Dutch company refloated it and dragged it, upside-down, further off shore to re-sink it. I googled around but couldn't find any pictures of them towing it upside down further out to sea.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:31
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CommieGIR posted:Doesn't stop everyone: Aside from the whole issue of being war graves, as an archeologist turned naval historian this pisses me the gently caress off because now we can't use the wrecks to learn more details of exactly how those ships were lost in battle.
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Nov 14, 2018 00:34
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