|
Your Taint posted:Exactly. Pose them very specific questions on his claims and make them prove them. Don't let them tap dance around it or deflect or change the subject. And yet he still manages to come out of it continuing to play the aggrieved party. That's the most frustrating thing to have come to realize, maybe about modern debate/journalism/whatever, maybe just about how the grown-up world actually works: there is no such thing as "winning" an argument.
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 01:54 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/Ocasio2018/status/1062731138031120384
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:45
|
|
|
eke out posted:their defenses are I think it was the Secretary of War in 1866; has to do with Andrew Johnson throwing a hissy fit and firing Edwin Stanton, not the Attorney General.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:46
|
|
|
skylined! posted:Sinema won her election, and the vote that this conversation is centered around was completely inconsequential. If it was inconsequential then there's no excuse for siding with jailers of children
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:46
|
|
|
Fox is right. Those are 
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:46
|
|
|
i would like their faces to replace mount rushmore
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
Fritz Coldcockin posted:I think it was the Secretary of War in 1866; has to do with Andrew Johnson throwing a hissy fit and firing Edwin Stanton, not the Attorney General. It was AG https://twitter.com/ryanjreilly/status/1062723523645489153?s=19
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:50
|
|
|
I feel like AOC would be really fun to drink with
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:51
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/davidfolkenflik/status/1062734223864463363?s=19
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:51
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:I'm just going to throw this out there but maybe trying to carry water and apologize for someone who went out of their way to publicly support child concentration camps is a bad thing and you shouldn't ever do it. Because it makes you sound like an amoral sociopath who doesn't understand basic human empathy, and not some sort of pragmatist who can make the hard decisions. I do not want to overgeneralize the other 'side' in this thread; but just in the last 1-2 weeks, wasn't a common argument against the leftist wing here that by criticizing or not voting for democrats we were effectively supporting child concentration camps? I could be misremembering, but I feel like that exact argument was made at some point. But here we have an actual elected politician doing much more damage against the cause of fighting child concentration camps, so what gives? I mean, I was overjoyed when the race suddenly turned in Sinema's favor, and I'm still glad she beat McSally, but this reflects pretty badly on her and, by extension, her party.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:52
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:If it was inconsequential then there's no excuse for siding with jailers of children Privileged folk who have only known comfort in their lives have a mighty hard time wrapping their head around the concept that there actually are moral absolutes which should never be crossed. She supports child concentration camps, she went out of her way to use her political office to publicly declare her support for child concentration camps. She is a monster and there is nothing more to say about her or the entirety of her existence. Literally nothing else in her political life matters as much as the fact that she publicly supports child concentration camps. She crossed the line. And if you defend her for crossing that line then you're a self-righteous privileged idiot at best, or a sociopath enabler of fascism at worse. This is actually a binary issue because we're dealing with child concentration camps, and either you're on the side of monsters or you're on the side of not monsters. There is absolutely no gray area whatsoever in this particular issue.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:54
|
|
|
I guess he's smart enough to realize that this could be weaponized against them in future Democratic administrations if they decide it's legal now. I hope Donny sees it and it sends him over the edge.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:54
|
|
|
The thing I wish politicians would learn about trap votes is no one in actually gives a gently caress how you vote on anything, except your base. Everyone who isn't your base just cares what you're selling and how it's packaged. I think the Republicans figured that one out Supreme Court votes are probably an exception to this rule but are so immensely important that senators should do the right thing anyway John Wick of Dogs fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Nov 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:57
|
|
|
"Why have you forsaken me people in the TV?!"- Trump, right now
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 16:58
|
|
|
AOS is good since she'll support progressive policies but does she actually have the knowledge base necessary to actually craft good policy All these venerated heroes of the left and right seem very disconnected from how actual energy grids etc work as far as infrastructure goes at least
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:Privileged folk who have only known comfort in their lives have a mighty hard time wrapping their head around the concept that there actually are moral absolutes which should never be crossed. Yeah, but only 16% of arizona doesn't support ICE, so we have a monster state and the election is for best monster.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:01
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Yeah, but only 16% of arizona doesn't support ICE, so we have a monster state and the election is for best monster. You are a sociopath and the cause of fighting fascism would be well-served if you left our side entirely. You don't understand anything about humanity and you cannot grasp the concept that there are moral lines that should never be crossed. She didn't need to use her office to go out of her way to declare her support for concentration camps. If she really was a principal pragmatist she could have chosen to stay silent, but no, she chose to support child concentration camps. And you're trying to justify that decision.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
that marco rubio football metaphor is something else.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:04
|
|
|
Has Donny tweeted anything today? I expected another meltdown of stupid like yesterday, but he seems to be maintaining radio silence. Is he pouting?
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:05
|
|
|
TulliusCicero posted:Has Donny tweeted anything today? I expected another meltdown of stupid like yesterday, but he seems to be maintaining radio silence. Staff is playing keep-away with his phone.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
Groovelord Neato posted:that marco rubio football metaphor is something else. A solid misunderstanding of counting votes and football. He really shanked this three point kick.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:06
|
|
|
Fritz Coldcockin posted:Staff is playing keep-away with his phone. The cocoon of bitterness blocks the signal
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:07
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:You are a sociopath and the cause of fighting fascism would be well-served if you left our side entirely. You don't understand anything about humanity and you cannot grasp the concept that there are moral lines that should never be crossed. ICE/etc are all bad. Literally(I think) everyone in this thread agrees with that. But, all politics are local. And AZ has a fair share of garbage people Sinema works for. Personally, it’s a deal breaker for me and I couldn’t stomach a vote for her because of it, but I don’t live in AZ. If we start treating Sinema like Manchin at everything she does we might as well make a “Fake Democratic Senator” thread to contain the shitstorm about to happen.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:08
|
|
|
Its worth noting Marco Rubio's mentor was Norm Braman, the former Philly Eagles owner, aka the man too cheap to pay Reggie White
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:12
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1062727288121384961 Dems bad.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:14
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:You are a sociopath and the cause of fighting fascism would be well-served if you left our side entirely. You don't understand anything about humanity and you cannot grasp the concept that there are moral lines that should never be crossed. Fairly rich of you to berate somebody for "not understanding anything" and failing to grasp concepts, Prester jane.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:14
|
|
|
Wilhelm posted:AOS is good since she'll support progressive policies but does she actually have the knowledge base necessary to actually craft good policy you're right, Agents of Shield is a good show or did you mean AOC?
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:14
|
|
|
I can almost hear the teeth grinding at Fox from here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:15
|
|
|
Retro42 posted:
Friend I tell you this as a survivor. That thread will get made one day anyways, it's only a matter of time. The reason is because people like Manchin and Sinema will ultimately betray us and side with the fascists over the people opposing fascism. It's an infrinsic part of who they are as human beings.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:15
|
|
|
Prester Jane posted:You are a sociopath and the cause of fighting fascism would be well-served if you left our side entirely. You don't understand anything about humanity and you cannot grasp the concept that there are moral lines that should never be crossed. one of the two dem reps from arizona that i mentioned did exactly that. they voted present instead of straight against. not ideal, but hosed up like what sinema did
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:15
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/OsitaNwanevu/status/1062734020147118086
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:16
|
|
|
*blinks twice* Well I did not see that coming. I guess this must be the guy keeping Shep Smith on board.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:17
|
|
|
If people are going to put themselves forward as masters of political strategy, they should at least be able to recognize a cynical ploy of a nonbinding resolution like a decent high school model parliamentarian could write. The GOP wrote it specifically to get the reaction that people are giving and it's honestly embarrassing to watch.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:19
|
|
|
Wilhelm posted:AOS is good since she'll support progressive policies but does she actually have the knowledge base necessary to actually craft good policy Almost no politicians "craft" their own policy without the help of hundreds of non-elected individuals. It's unreasonable to expect an individual to be knowledgeable enough on every topic they need to legislate on. What you can observe is their broad positions and the people they hire and consult with.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:20
|
|
|
I guess the more politically savvy senators don't think this is a fight worth having but Schumer is so obviously terrible at his job in every possible way...
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:21
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:I guess the more politically savvy senators don't think this is a fight worth having but Schumer is so obviously terrible at his job in every possible way... My guess is that most don't feel it's worth the fight/publicity while its for Minority Leader. If it was for Majority Leader I'd like to imagine things would play out differently.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:23
|
|
|
Wilhelm posted:AOS is good since she'll support progressive policies but does she actually have the knowledge base necessary to actually craft good policy I see this concern about AOC's "knowledge base" way more than I see it about any other freshman rep It's the loving House, it's fine
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:24
|
|
|
1337JiveTurkey posted:If people are going to put themselves forward as masters of political strategy, they should at least be able to recognize a cynical ploy of a nonbinding resolution like a decent high school model parliamentarian could write. The GOP wrote it specifically to get the reaction that people are giving and it's honestly embarrassing to watch. this is quite simple. the gop are scum for writing and passing a resolution saying "we support ICE" in the middle of ICE ripping kids away from their parents. sinema is scum too for signing on to that resolution, regardless of her reasons for doing so the other two dem reps in arizona managed to not vote in favor of this resolution. sinema doesn't have any excuse for her behavior
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:24
|
|
|
1337JiveTurkey posted:If people are going to put themselves forward as masters of political strategy, they should at least be able to recognize a cynical ploy of a nonbinding resolution like a decent high school model parliamentarian could write. The GOP wrote it specifically to get the reaction that people are giving and it's honestly embarrassing to watch. The one political pathology I will never understand is this one. "The politician I support is just lying to trick idiots into supporting her, the fools!"
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 01:54 |
|
|
1337JiveTurkey posted:If people are going to put themselves forward as masters of political strategy, they should at least be able to recognize a cynical ploy of a nonbinding resolution like a decent high school model parliamentarian could write. The GOP wrote it specifically to get the reaction that people are giving and it's honestly embarrassing to watch. She's the one who chose to put her name to it, and we're just reacting to that decision. I'm judging a powerful person by how they chose to use their power. Drawing a Line in the Sand because of how a powerful person uses their powered of support child concentration camps is not a case of a bunch of hapless rube's falling for a ploy. The resolution itself was a ploy sure, but the decision she made to put her name on it and to thusly support child concentration camps is a decision she made. She is being judged for her decisions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:25
|
|