|
felch me daddy jr. posted:Medicine can work even if it's not proven effective
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 17:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 12:01 |
|
|
EvilGenius posted:You know what else has been used for centuries? Tiger penis. Rhino horn. They've stuck around because there's something about them that sticks in the human psyche, not because they work. yeah each time we get into traditional medicine, you really can't escape that eventually it just leads to people murdering endangered animals trying to make their dicks hard there's validity in traditional medicine having worked which is where all of modern medicine comes from, and we haven't discovered everything, but to TOTALLY ESCHEW our current medical understanding is tinfoil hat levels of insane, and totally missing how the two things are intimately connected. Again: it's not actually a binary, people just want to view it as such because then their anger at a system over which they feel they have no control is much easier to focus and direct. StrangersInTheNight has a new favorite as of 18:11 on Nov 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:08
|
|
|
I did it, I found the hottest take about cops:
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:13
|
|
|
evobatman posted:You are literally saying "prove that it doesn't work". No, I'm saying "don't claim it definitely doesn't work unless you have science to back up that statement". Aramoro posted:The problem is you're lending legitimacy to unproven traditional medicine by saying you shouldn't dismiss it. With Ayahuasca you absolutely can dismiss it until you prove it works, because otherwise you have those folk going around saying 'oh t's natural so it can't be bad for you'. Which is especially dangerous given that it's lauded as a treatment for depression, except it can cause serotonin syndrome when combined with some anti-depressants, like the ones people seeking treatment for depression might be on. I agree that that's a valid concern, but I suspect that maybe we're using the word "dismiss" in slightly different ways here. My problem isn't with people who say "don't use medicine which hasn't been proven to work" or "medicine should have scientific proof of its efficiency before being accepted for medical use" (I agree wholeheartedly with the second statement), but with statements suggesting that traditional medicine is all worthless before it's been properly researched. Science takes time and what science is done is often affected by politics and culture. I'd love if every single traditional medicine had been properly studied to figure out if there's any medical utility in it, but until that happens it seems arrogant to dismiss it all as either useless or dangerous, especially since it in some cases can really help people in ways modern medicine can't.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:13
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:I did it, I found the hottest take about cops: Cops are simple, blameless creatures that lash out at their surroundings when they feel threatened. For your own safety, don't carry any extra food in your pockets and try to appear lighter than a paper bag when you think you may be walking in an area with cops around.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:20
|
|
|
cultural attitudes of dismissiveness toward other cultures' traditional medicine have, and continue to, hindered the process of actually investigating it too; ayahuasca, for instance, is only just getting some attention in the past few years and a lot of people's response has been "lol it is obviously bullshit it just is a drug for getting high with and hippies just want to get hosed up" rather than "let's see what, if anything, science can learn from this". i don't even have a horse in this race, i don't practice any traditional medicine and have no predetermined opinion on the efficacy of ayahuasca or any other remedy, but go off i guess also phenylephrine is basically a placebo but is a vetted Real Medicine nevertheless, which i find vaguely amusing. then again cvs also sells homeopathic poo poo so clearly "can be bought at the pharmacy in the regular western medicine department as if it's real" doesn't mean poo poo anyway
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:20
|
|
|
felch me daddy jr. posted:No, I'm saying "don't claim it definitely doesn't work unless you have science to back up that statement". Traditional medicine has been properly researched. That’s how you get modern medicine. I feel you’re trolling at this point.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:21
|
|
|
Henchman of Santa posted:White pride is a bad thing because it’s just code for white supremacy, not because whiteness is vague. The main reason Rev. Magdalen is an idiot in that post is because she’s making the same argument you just did while simultaneously using whiteness as a cudgel against people who disagree with her. And if you go into that whole thread she goes completely off the rails. Another issue is that people saying "why cant I be proud of my white ancestry or celebrate my culture?" are ignoring that nobody is stopping them if they pick a specific one. You can go to an Oktoberfest in like every major city. I've gone to weddings where all the dudes in the wedding party wore formal kilts because the groom was mostly Scottish. A person of German descent could throw a huge beer and brats party if they felt like it. I work near an Irish pub. It's already being celebrated and practiced. Nobody minds until you just go "white pride!!!" as that's meaningless. American black culture specifically exists because a bunch of random African people were kidnapped, forcibly brought here, and forced to give up their previous cultures and religions. Then after that they were segregated so they kind of had to develop their own culture. There's no generic white culture as there are a bunch of European cultural practices that have been here for centuries already.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:21
|
|
|
felch me daddy jr. posted:My problem isn't with people who say "don't use medicine which hasn't been proven to work" or "medicine should have scientific proof of its efficiency before being accepted for medical use" (I agree wholeheartedly with the second statement), but with statements suggesting that traditional medicine is all worthless before it's been properly researched.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:21
|
|
|
The issue is that you can't know if something from traditional medicine is effective until it has been studied properly (and then it's just modern medicine).
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:27
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:It is worthless before it's been properly researched, because for every one thing that actually does some good you've got a dozen that do harm and a hundred that do nothing, but which people will use instead of something that does work, and since there's no proper research you have no way of knowing which ones are which. Things that haven't been researched have potential value, not actual value. It's the process of studying them that gives them their worth. This. In hindsight, it can be easy to say “why didn’t we research this traditional medicine for so long” when in reality, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of traditional meds, most of which do nothing and some of which actively harm. It’s impossible to study fully each one, especially when now you have more and more idiots selling some poo poo homeopathic “meds” and passing them off as real.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:28
|
|
|
it's almost like the process to prove that it works is testing it and then figuring out what about it causes it to work aka modern medicine one becomes the other through time and vetting, they aren't mutually exclusive
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:29
|
|
|
ToxicSlurpee posted:Another issue is that people saying "why cant I be proud of my white ancestry or celebrate my culture?" are ignoring that nobody is stopping them if they pick a specific one. You can go to an Oktoberfest in like every major city. I've gone to weddings where all the dudes in the wedding party wore formal kilts because the groom was mostly Scottish. A person of German descent could throw a huge beer and brats party if they felt like it. I work near an Irish pub. It's already being celebrated and practiced. Nobody minds until you just go "white pride!!!" as that's meaningless. American black culture specifically exists because a bunch of random African people were kidnapped, forcibly brought here, and forced to give up their previous cultures and religions. Then after that they were segregated so they kind of had to develop their own culture. The difference there is that Oktoberfest is celebrating German heritage, St. Patrick's day is Irish heritage, etc. It's fine to celebrate German heritage (unless you're celebrating the... bad parts of German history), it's not okay to celebrate "white" heritage. In American context, black has become mostly synonymous with African American, which is why it's fine to celebrate black heritage whereas white is synonymous with white supremacy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:36
|
|
|
Also when we pulled over all those people as slaves we effectively stole their national identity from them and assigned them as 'black', and so identifying as black is all a part of indicating the complexity of being a POC in America. We very literally stole their national identities from them, so celebrating their shared identity of 'black' makes total sense and is valid. No one rolled through and enslaved German or Irish people to such a degree that their entire cultures got demolished as they were forcibly ingested against their will into a culture they never asked to become a part of. It just didn't happen like that, and there is no comparing the two. It doesn't help that lots of white cultural identities are brandished as ways to prove they are 'part' of the white club and no longer immigrants (see: the transition of Irish and Italian immigrants from POC to 'accepted as white' folk). For example, the whole canonization of Columbus in American culture is directly related to Italian-American efforts to establish and validate themselves as 'true Americans'. So, you take an American origin story and really ramp up your culture's involvement and BOOM, now you're 'white' Americans! This is why getting rid of Columbus Day is a bit of a cultural minefield, I know some Italian Americans who are INTENSE AF about Columbus. They want to cling to the myth becomes it buys them cultural legitimacy. StrangersInTheNight has a new favorite as of 18:47 on Nov 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:42
|
|
|
That's basically my point, really. American black culture has some pretty unique circumstances. The idea of white pride in a generic sense was a direct response to black and gay pride stuff. "We want our own pride!" is silly as it's already there and always had been. There just isn't a singular white culture. The people trying to demand one are generally racists that can't see that what we consider the mainstream American culture is a weird melt of mostly European stuff. Of course a lot of it is also appropriated black culture stuff so welp.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:49
|
|
|
Yeah, white pride is a direct response to black and gay pride, it exists as a direct challenge and basically advertises that people feel those things are a threat to American culture - much like how the 'ALL lives Matter!!!' crowd would not have said poo poo if we weren't trying to point out Black Lives Matter
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
come on guys there is a lot to white culture like oppressing minorities
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:57
|
|
|
Andrast posted:come on guys there is a lot to white culture My favorite is roasting marshmallows over a roaring book fire.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 18:58
|
|
|
Andrast posted:come on guys there is a lot to white culture you joke but this is basically why the other 'white-passing-but-not-yet-considered-white' nationalities were fighting to be let in the white club everyone wants to be the one on top, and being white inherently presumes social supremacy once you're properly white, you can poo poo on all the POC like the best of 'em that's literally it, that's ALL white culture has and means. white is just code for 'ruling class'.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 19:02
|
|
|
Andrast posted:The issue is that you can't know if something from traditional medicine is effective until it has been studied properly (and then it's just modern medicine). I'm honestly not sure how I'm communicating myself so poorly that so many people don't understand what I'm saying. You're right, we can't know for absolutely sure exactly if and how a medicine works without doing science. I'm simply saying that people still use unapproved medicine and in some cases it can work wonders for them. I don't think this is a controversial point? I'm absolutely not saying that all traditional medicine should be respected and people should consider all traditional medicine for whatever condition they have. That said, I do believe it's in some cases possible to find a medicine that can help you with something that modern medicine doesn't help you with; this does not mean you should uncritically believe every claim made about every traditional medicine, just that you can look at the same things scientists look at when deciding whether to study a certain traditional medicine, other people's experiences, and use them to decide for yourself whether or not that is a route you want to pursue. To use a different example that's in many ways analogous to ayahuasca: it's been well-known (in a not strict scientific sense of "known") among certain communities for a long time that psilocybin mushrooms can be effective in treating depression. I read about this and tried it myself, to find that it really helped me with my depression. This was not a science-tested, government-approved medicine, but I'd heard enough experiences about it from people who I trusted to try it myself. Last week, psilocybin-assisted therapy for depression was approved by the FDA after studies showed it to be effective. If I had thought "this medicine doesn't have enough research backing it, better stay away from it even though nothing my doctor will prescribe works", then I might have killed myself when I had a particularly bad depressive episode back in April.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 19:17
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1062753033489129473
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 19:29
|
|
|
felch me daddy jr. posted:I'm honestly not sure how I'm communicating myself so poorly that so many people don't understand what I'm saying. Sure, I agree on principle but you need to be really careful with this kind of thinking. More often than not this leads to people believing all kinds of grifters, curing cancer with oranges or grinding down rhino horns. Like, people are usually not equipped to determine whether a particular treatment is effective or not.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 19:30
|
|
|
Six-Of-Hearts posted:On mobile, clicked that asked if i want to go to anime planet. Hahaha NO. Burn the internet down. You're really not going to like my new campaign promise to Make Anime Real Somehow, or MARS. We will MARS one way or another. Still I hope to see you on the campaign trail. Also I draw the line at Whispers, gently caress that guy. I liked everything in that tweet except the author and "autogynephilia." Anime is still cool and good, he's just responding to the weebification of trans online culture on sites like r/traaaans and twitter. PS. I'm autistic, love doing drugs AND trans, so I win the vaccine hype combo. Yay!
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 19:31
|
|
|
speaking of bad medicine takes, I follow a lot of weed entrepeneurs in DC on instragram. I made an account just for that and don't follow anything else so I have a pure, unfiltered look into the world of dabheads and grey market weed people, which means I see a lot of stuff like this: this is so transparently absurd i dont even know what to say
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 19:38
|
|
|
Medicine was extremely bad from 1842-1900
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 19:39
|
|
|
Frog Act posted:speaking of bad medicine takes, I follow a lot of weed entrepeneurs in DC on instragram. I made an account just for that and don't follow anything else so I have a pure, unfiltered look into the world of dabheads and grey market weed people, which means I see a lot of stuff like this: You've got an outflow pipe of IoSM and you've not shared until now? For shame.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 19:42
|
|
|
felch me daddy jr. posted:I'm honestly not sure how I'm communicating myself so poorly that so many people don't understand what I'm saying. How’re the Parisian catacombs?
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 20:02
|
|
|
felch me daddy jr. posted:i took-a de mushrooms yeah yeah and i self-medicate with weed we all do the thing to counter your 'i'm not saying all traditional medicine is good' response, i would say we are not saying all self-administered medication is going to murder you forever, just that it's incredibly risky and should not be taken lightly, nor should something not currently being tested/vetted be used as a reason why modern medicine is 'bad'. like you said, you found something that actually worked for you and wow look at that at the very same time that it was being tested and now is approved. in fact, the current increase in people trusting and using psilocybin treatment is directly related to the fact that it was being tested has lent it legitimacy; even just HEARING that the FDA was looking into it made more people interested in trying it. almost like it's alll relaaaated NOTE: also having previously done shrooms myself, i would NOT have reccommend people just popping a few caps to cure themselves. I've watched someone experience full ego-death on that poo poo and have a mental breakdown. you have GOT to take care. yes it gives you a lovely sense of wellness and togetherness - if all goes well. That's no guarantee. Even now, with it being something the FDA is moving forward with, I would NOT tell people to find some caps and treat themselves because the concentrations in each mushroom can be so different and you can turbofuck yourself. At least be 100% sure to have a sober babysitter if you're dumb enough to do that. Goddamn people are irresponsible. StrangersInTheNight has a new favorite as of 20:20 on Nov 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 20:13
|
|
|
Bluh posted:How’re the Parisian catacombs? That post reads like what happens when my crazy biochem friend has a couple too many drinks and someone mentions psilocybin or DMT; three hours later you know the chemical formulation of LSD, how to make it in a bathtub and why everyone with depression should do mushrooms, on top of multiple "profound" observations about philosophy and human nature. Weird keying onto a specific drug/type of drug, and it's always psilocybin. in my case he's trying to get me to do mushrooms and my response every time has been "dude, I'm 40 with kids, when the gently caress do I have eight hours of free time"
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 20:13
|
|
|
TheKennedys posted:That post reads like what happens when my crazy biochem friend has a couple too many drinks and someone mentions psilocybin or DMT; three hours later you know the chemical formulation of LSD, how to make it in a bathtub and why everyone with depression should do mushrooms, on top of multiple "profound" observations about philosophy and human nature. Weird keying onto a specific drug/type of drug, and it's always psilocybin. I met mine at a before-school gay group, bonded over our mutual autism, and ended up with him smoking weed with my roommate in dorm. (At the time, I was a teetotaler.) I wish I bought weed from them back then.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 20:18
|
|
|
glad to hear you agree
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 20:23
|
|
|
/\/\/\ *whoosh* <- the sound of the point going over your head there's always one guy who thinks shrooms are a cure-all bc he had one good experience my guy was the one who TOTALLY FLIPPED OUT nothing like sitting with three other people on a full-grown man who is babbling and shrieking incoherently, just to keep him from getting out of bed and accidentally hurting himself or others, for about 6 hours that was not a good birthday, and he was never the same after that. he will readily admit there is him pre-trauma and him post-trauma from that. It's a marker in his life, and not a good one. respect drugs, kids StrangersInTheNight has a new favorite as of 20:25 on Nov 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 20:23
|
|
|
Loky11 posted:Remember back when the internet was first a thing? We were all excited to open the world up to new ideas, get information flowing across borders, and might lead to a free and open dialogue? It did. We're a very dumb species.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 20:57
|
|
|
Andrast posted:come on guys there is a lot to white culture Sometimes we oppress other White people or the Irish.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 21:24
|
|
|
Grondoth posted:It did. While it has been melting borders its also led to echo chamber hug boxes that amplify opinions into complete madness. Though that doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. 95% of the internet is cute animals and porn.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 21:29
|
|
|
IOSM:Krispy Wafer posted:Sometimes we oppress other White people or the Irish.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 21:30
|
|
|
StrangersInTheNight posted:/\/\/\ *whoosh* <- the sound of the point going over your head Absolutely. I am a massive mushroom advocate, but I have a pretty strong set of rules. I love turning my brain over and seeing the bugs squirming around, it changes me each time in a positive way. But other people might take the same effect, lose everything that grounded and anchored them, and never be the same again in a bad way. Some people are just able to face those things, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 21:34
|
|
|
Brawnfire posted:Absolutely. I am a massive mushroom advocate, but I have a pretty strong set of rules. I love turning my brain over and seeing the bugs squirming around, it changes me each time in a positive way. But other people might take the same effect, lose everything that grounded and anchored them, and never be the same again in a bad way. Some people are just able to face those things, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 21:49
|
|
|
YouTube keeps recommending me a video called "Fallout 76 is a lie" that has that Vault Boy mascot with the alt-right npc face in the thumbnail. Ugh.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 22:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 12:01 |
|
|
Dr Christmas posted:YouTube keeps recommending me a video called "Fallout 76 is a lie" that has that Vault Boy mascot with the alt-right npc face in the thumbnail. Post/Avatar combo is on #fleek.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 22:10
|
|