|
I'm reminded of the Witcher story where a dwarf merchant gets knocked out and replaced by a doppelganger. He hires Geralt to track it down and get his money back, until it T transpires that the doppelganger is some kind of investment genius who is now filthy rich and so he just starts introducing him as his distant cousin and no dwarves don't all look alike are you just racist?
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 10:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 03:57 |
|
|
Section Z posted:While I love the idea of bargain bin monster race circus? I didn't really mean to imply that it should be used as a blanket ability block. More like a complication that would need to be worked around so that identifying the tanner as a bodysnatcher wouldn't be completely trivial and they'd need to do some manual legwork to notice that he's acting suspicious. Presumably the monster radar wouldn't stop working, they'd just need to hatch a clever plan to filter the signal from the noise. Like positioning themselves between the tanner shop and the circus grounds so that it's obvious that there's one doppelganger signal that is in the opposite direction of all the others, or luring the tanner away from the city somehow so there's less noise around to confuse the monster radar. The curse thing was just a half baked idea thrown in as a justification if one wanted to use the same complication more than once. And it could be used to the party's benefit too. If the curse hasn't been broken yet and the party ends up running into the circus in a new town, they'll know that there's something fishy going on if the curse drew them there, and that they should investigate. Or while working on breaking the curse, they could follow the circus around, using them as a longer ranged, but more inaccurate shenanigans radar. You wouldn't have to have the circus drop out of the campaign after breaking the curse either. They could still be a useful contact to know, with lot of esoteric knowledge and talents that the party could make use of if they can convince them to help. And if nothing else you'd have a potential origin story ready if any of the players need replacement characters and want to play as one of the monster races.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 10:36
|
|
|
Beast Pussy posted:Find a new group? But yeah OP, let people feel cool and strong, that'll make it more fun for everyone. Eh, not really an option for this character. Keep in mind the first two and the last thing with Waterdeep are two separate DM's. I think in the latter case I needed to make my intention more clear, which I did. I'm definitely not against finding a challenge, but anyone that can go toe-to-toe with a barbarian packing a natural 22 STR I'd hope that fight would quickly get out of hand and end up outside of the fighting pit/basement/building hulk-style. People are learning the "joys" of our open table style with these events though. With eight people interested in this game, there's generally gonna be two people left out no matter what. This DM does a good job of encouraging people to try and do stuff between sessions too, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 12:02
|
|
|
Webguy20 posted:I just stumbled across WonderDraft for overworld map making and it is pretty drat sweet for $20. Check out the reddit thread for examples of awesome maps. It took me about 2 hours to figure out how to use the program to make good looking maps. It is not as powerful as campaign cartographer or some other software, but it lets you generate a good looking map quickly, which is a huge boon for prepping sessions. Wonderdraft is awesome, exactly what I needed thanks 
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 12:36
|
|
|
clusterfuck posted:Wonderdraft is awesome, exactly what I needed thanks It's also virtually flawless with correct layering of trees and mountains, and that's already enough to make it the best map software out there.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 12:41
|
|
|
The absolutely lack of any kind of layer feature with Inkarnate is what makes it difficult to feel worth the money. As someone that uses photoshop on the daily for work, it just makes things take way too long. To be fair my skillset does let me do a lot of stuff you see in these programs/websites myself. But this is my -hobby-, if I can be a bit lazy I will.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 12:42
|
|
|
Oo Koo posted:I didn't really mean to imply that it should be used as a blanket ability block. More like a complication that would need to be worked around so that identifying the tanner as a bodysnatcher wouldn't be completely trivial and they'd need to do some manual legwork to notice that he's acting suspicious. Presumably the monster radar wouldn't stop working, they'd just need to hatch a clever plan to filter the signal from the noise. Like positioning themselves between the tanner shop and the circus grounds so that it's obvious that there's one doppelganger signal that is in the opposite direction of all the others, or luring the tanner away from the city somehow so there's less noise around to confuse the monster radar. I admit that over the years, my twisty straw of gaming logic worries more about "Cool idea!... Which I only thought of to mess with/make the player react a certain way" more than openly antagonistic GMs. As much because so many cool ideas I've seen over the years have fallen flat because of it. So I'm always a bit leery of "Introduce cool thing!... Because it will force the PCs to-" Like expecting the reason you have been tasked with playing bodyguard to a vampire in witness protection is "Clearly someone expects me to take out the witness myself, because they think my RUMOR disadvantage I hate all magic is fact". Then the GM starts yelling at you for 'Not roleplaying your disadvantage right', and then drops the plot like it never happened when you remind them it's RUMOR. Not the expected beep boop player hates X results. A loving amazing idea, wasted because of "The GM only introduced this as a pretense to OOC intentions". Your idea is a really cool idea. It's just that introducing it as a means to mess with a player basically flips a lot of very niche warning flags for me, even with your legitimate intentions more GMs would do well to have. Section Z fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Nov 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 14:30
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I have a DM Shenanigans/ethics question. Asking in this thread because it's a bit 5e-specific. One of my players is particularly vicious and she's playing a revised ranger, with "monstrosities" as her favored enemy. She's been keeping victims' heads on her belt and just recently dropped them off to be shrunk, so that she might fit more on there. One of them is a doppelganger and I said that, as she dropped it off with the tanner, it was grinning when it hadn't been before. She was unnerved but still left it at the shop. Just mention specifically that the tanner nervously fingers a necklace/medallion around his throat while staring creeped out at the shrunken skull. The necklace is an amulet of proof against detection that the tannerr wore because he was really a _______ , which the PCs will eventually uncover when they come across _____ , tipping the hand if the nefarious tanner. When they come to confront the tanner, they think he is a _______ but he is really a doppelganger. Maybe you specifically mention the ranger gets creeped out and feels weird around the tanner to get her to use her ability right there in the shop so she gets put at ease (maybe not make it too over the top). It teaches her not to rely on her talent too much and that she should listen to her spider sense etc and maybe monsters begin to hear of her and those who can take precautions when it suits the DM's plot etc.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2018 22:49
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:I'm reminded of the Witcher story where a dwarf merchant gets knocked out and replaced by a doppelganger. He hires Geralt to track it down and get his money back, until it T transpires that the doppelganger is some kind of investment genius who is now filthy rich and so he just starts introducing him as his distant cousin and no dwarves don't all look alike are you just racist? It was a cool idea but it was obvious what he was doing too early so a lot of the story was jsut a formality where you knew what was happening. It was cool how in the end the head of the anti-monster church was another doppelganger though. Also he was a halfling not a dwarf.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 00:09
|
|
|
A person replaced by a doppelganger except the doppelganger is basically a totally better person than the original so the party has the issue of bringing back the original rear end in a top hat or just let things be.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 00:16
|
|
|
ChaseSP posted:A person replaced by a doppelganger except the doppelganger is basically a totally better person than the original so the party has the issue of bringing back the original rear end in a top hat or just let things be. I really like this idea. Doppleganger, having had its encounter with death, decides to be a better person and the town loves it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 00:46
|
|
|
ReapersTouch posted:I really like this idea. Doppleganger, having had its encounter with death, decides to be a better person and the town loves it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:06
|
|
|
Our campaign is up to level 8. The group used to play 3.5. 5e is so, so much better. No more super druids or clerics, they rely on the fighters and the group works together a whole lot more. Good game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 01:20
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:Our campaign is up to level 8. The group used to play 3.5. See, that's exactly what I thought too, right after I made the switch. Then as you play a bit more, you realize that although the floor is higher and the ceiling is lower, the rules of the game still haven't fundamentally changed, and casters are still king. Clerics are no longer CoDzilla, but they're still pretty hypercompetent. Even with nerfs, Save or Lose effects are still Save or Lose, for example. If anything, martials lost the most, since they're no longer power attacking for obscene piles of damage. Still it's hard to imagine going back, partly because the game is a lot smoother in a lot of ways, and partly because it's hard to find a group that would actually want to go through the work of playing through 3.5.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:10
|
|
|
I can only imagine what modern D&D would look like if they had called the good one something other than "Basic" D&D.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:44
|
|
|
Our casters don’t seem to have any hard save or suck spells yet. Maybe 4th level? Even then max level wizards only get a few high level slots/day though. You’re very likely right. High level dnd always blows. Mid level seems excellent.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 02:52
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:Our campaign is up to level 8. The group used to play 3.5. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:01
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:Our casters don’t seem to have any hard save or suck spells yet. Maybe 4th level? Even then max level wizards only get a few high level slots/day though. Because so many stick to their cliche guns even when you remind them "Wizards in 5th ed unlock INFINITY magic missile, infinity hold person. Or whatever you picked as your infinity 1st and 2nd level spell you select on rest" Doubling down with "Fighters can swing their sword FOUR times!" even though that kicks in at level 20, while access to "I feel like infinity charm person today" is at lv 18 
Section Z fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:12
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:Our casters don’t seem to have any hard save or suck spells yet. Maybe 4th level? Even then max level wizards only get a few high level slots/day though. The quick-and-dirty of save and sucks at that level would be Hold Person at 2, Hypnotic Pattern at 3, and Banishment and Polymorph at 4, all of which will completely shut down an affected target. Concentration puts some limits on how much you can do at once, but they're still as hard as Save or Lose effects go. At any rate, they all interact pretty favorably with the action economy by letting you trade one of your actions for a bunch of theirs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:16
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:You’re very likely right. High level dnd always blows. Mid level seems excellent. This is true of D&D in general.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:18
|
|
|
Section Z posted:I'm glad a friend of mine has stopped his unironic "But only so many spell slots! Swing all day long!" comments after closer reading of class features. Magic Missile is only (1d4+1) * 3 damage when cast from a 1st level slot though. Assuming you can't cast your mastered spell from a higher slot (which would be insane). Pretty useless at high levels. E: the rulebook says you can only cast mastered spells at their lowest level. So yeah. Not that powerful. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:19
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:Magic Missile is only (1d4+1) * 3 damage when cast from a 1st level slot though. Assuming you can't cast your mastered spell from a higher slot (which would be insane). To say nothing of that waste of print that is the Shield spell. Who would want to cast THAT infinity times?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:21
|
|
|
Section Z posted:I had the feeling you'd go for "1st level magic missile only is useless!", because as everyone knows infinity charm person is oh so useless at 1st slot level. (And that waste of print that is the Shield spell, nobody would want to cast THAT infinity times). You're the one who specifically said "Infinity magic missile", buddy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:22
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:You're the one who specifically said "Infinity magic missile", buddy. And ALSO Charm person in the post you quoted Which is why I get a laugh every time people play the "But it's ONLY 1st (and 2nd, you get one of those too )slot levels! Not that powerful!" card.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:25
|
|
|
Section Z posted:And ALSO Charm person in the quoted post Ok well you may not want to weaken your legitimate point by preceding it with an illegimate one. Infinite charm person is obviously stupid, especially since it doesn't take concentration, for some stupid reason.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 03:26
|
|
|
Even at level 1, it flies unerringly for hundreds of feet and almost nothing is immune to them. It's only lovely compared to other spells. It would be above the curve if it was a martial skill.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 04:08
|
|
|
Babylon Astronaut posted:Even at level 1, it flies unerringly for hundreds of feet and almost nothing is immune to them. It's only lovely compared to other spells. It would be above the curve if it was a martial skill. Nope. Range is 120 feet. E: A longbow has a range of 150/600 feet and a fighter at that level can shoot it three times, for more damage. I don't see how that's above the curve. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 04:39
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:Nope. Range is 120 feet. Real talk, how often are you getting into fights that are >120 feet away?
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:08
|
|
|
kingcom posted:Real talk, how often are you getting into fights that are >120 feet away? I dunno man. That poster said that it flies "hundreds of feet" and suggested that level 1 magic missile is competitive with fighter attacks at level 18. I took it seriously, found it interesting, and looked it up. Turns out they're wrong. I don't want to go further down this edition wars rabbit hole and become a partisan here. I'm just discussing specifics.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:13
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:I dunno man. That poster said that it flies "hundreds of feet" and suggested that level 1 magic missile is competitive with fighter attacks at level 18. I took it seriously, found it interesting, and looked it up. Turns out they're wrong. What are you talking about lol, we are purely talking 5e here at the moment? And idk firing a magic missile that longer than field of almost any battle you're going to actually play in seems pretty fine. Guess you read that a bit literally but sure. Magic missile pops you for 3d4+3 damage auto hit, a fighter bow 3 shot doing 3d8+15 (being generous and assuming you've gone for the max 20 dex), Plus you're rolling 1d20+11 to hit on each attack, meaning you're taking what, 40% change to miss on each of those for the enemies you're fighting around at point. That's a higher raw output for the fighter but doesn't really reflect how useful force damage is to ignore a lot of the non-magic resistances and immunity that the arrows face plus you're looking at all the nice effects you can trigger from 'being hit and taking damage', things like concentration checks, passing on extra saves for allies to break out of status effects, all sorts of fun stuff. I'm probably going to want magic missiles i can just dump out forever for free all the time over 3x bow shots. kingcom fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:22
|
|
|
kingcom posted:What are you talking about lol, we are purely talking 5e here at the moment? And idk firing a magic missile that longer than field of almost any battle you're going to actually play in seems pretty fine. Guess you read that a bit literally but sure. Assuming 40% chance to miss then the DPR for the fighter is 16.2. Compared to the DPR of the magic missile: 10.5 Seems like a pretty significant difference to me. I guess we cold argue in circles for a billion years about concentration and stuff but I'd go with the bow, myself.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:34
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:Assuming 40% chance to miss then the DPR for the fighter is 16.2. I mean real talk I would hope if you are an archer fighter you're taking sharpshooter to focus on it plus archery fighting style but im guessing given we are talking about a wizard using magic missile forever this is more of a context of 'other thing that character can do all day as a side thing'. I mean obviously you want a lot of different spells for your all day over magic missile, like the aforementioned charm person but if you really just want to cause raw numbers damage you're probably wanting to go scorching ray + evocation wizard for 3x 2d6+5 all day forever with Elf Accuracy + faire fire or something to just crit seek it forever but idk. Still seems like a bad deal to bother with damage as a whizzard and instead grab stuff like charm person or shield or suggestion as your thing you can just cast forever no worries. Plus I would hope the fighter has gotten magic bows too or something otherwise half the time the bow does 0 damage or 1/2 damage at that level. kingcom fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:40
|
|
|
Anyone who takes magic missile as a spell mastery pick is too stupid to be allowed access to the magic system. Their character sheet should be confiscated and replaced by one for a champion fighter.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:45
|
|
|
Kaysette posted:Anyone who takes magic missile as a spell mastery pick is too stupid to be allowed access to the magic system. Their character sheet should be confiscated and replaced by one for a champion fighter. It's probably one of the most suboptimal choices you can take. And yet it's still OK. Compared to 3.5 where you can cripple your character hopelessly with bad picks. Demonstrates how much better 5e is.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:50
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:It's probably one of the most suboptimal choices you can take. And yet it's still OK. Compared to 3.5 where you can cripple your character hopelessly with bad picks. Problem is thats very true for some classes but horrible for others. Warlocks can be colossally hosed if they dont pick the right options for example.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:56
|
|
|
kingcom posted:if you really just want to cause raw numbers damage you're probably wanting to go scorching ray + evocation wizard for 3x 2d6+5 all day forever with Elf Accuracy + faire fire or something to just crit seek it forever but idk. Where does the 3x come from? This is a genuine question. I'm still learning 5e. E: oh wait I misread the spell description. it comes with 3 rays
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 05:58
|
|
|
I didn't consider how Empowered Evocation would work with spells with multiple damage rolls. Seems extremely strong. E: There is a player's handbook errata nerfing this: quote:Empowered Evocation (p. 117). The E2: Assuming the same 40% chance to hit and using the errata, the dpr for empowered evocation Scorching ray is 15.6 which is only juuuust behind the archer. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 06:01
|
|
|
Amethyst posted:I didn't consider how Empowered Evocation would work with spells with multiple damage rolls. Seems extremely strong. Its alright at best, again at level 18 its a real low use of your ability. It's extra confusing because one of the devs is a tool who tweets out rules 'clarification' which are just him changing rules and flip flopping on them but pretending its always like that so its hard to know if that even work on scorching ray to be honest. So Scorching Ray could work like: SR1 = 2d6+5, SR2 = 2d6, SR = 2d6 OR SR1 = 2d6+5, SR2 = 2d6+5, SR = 2d6+5 Alternatively Magic Missile could get to apply this because it specifically says hits simultaneously is the spell then it gets to count that ability as applying to all rolls but Scorching Ray might not technically be striking at the same time. So magic missile does either: 1d4+6, 1d4+1, 1d4+1 or 3d4+18 All of this is confusing and not clear depending on what ruling you have taken when so... yeah lol. kingcom fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 06:15
|
|
|
Word of God is that you only roll damage once and use that for each missile/ray/whatever, so since that's only one roll being reused several times, the Empowered Evocation bonus is only being applied once. There's literally no indication whether to use the same damage for each missile or to reroll individually, which is 5e editing for you, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 06:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 03:57 |
|
|
lightrook posted:Word of God is that you only roll damage once and use that for each missile/ray/whatever, so since that's only one roll being reused several times, the Empowered Evocation bonus is only being applied once. There's literally no indication whether to use the same damage for each missile or to reroll individually, which is 5e editing for you, I guess. Yeah Crawford has said both at different points lol. Also hes extremely assanine and never posts a clear answer. Just look at this poo poo: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/557820938402947072 This is extra confusing because if you are making those multiple shots from one spell attacks against a target you are supposed to roll once and apply to all so you get poo poo like this: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/700146864948060160 Which makes it imply that all the bolts from the scorching ray should be done together as one roll because you need that to be the case for empowered spell  EDIT: Ruling that you only apply it to 1 ray hilariously fucks over the non-gimmick regular warlock who goes from having multiple 1d10+CHA eldrich blasts that keeps them on par damage wise to a martial to only getting it on the first eldrich blast and being trash damage wise so good job i guess. kingcom fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Nov 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Nov 15, 2018 06:22
|
|