The Miscellaneous Shounen Thread

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Darth TNT: Sep 20, 2013

Cipher Pol 9 posted:

Mashima's treatment of female characters is so bad and this arc is especially gross

But dawg did y'all see that highway fight in the chapter before it, that was cool as hell. It might be the most fun and dynamic fight I've seen in his works in a long time, Fairy Tail's power creep reduced it to just big explosions or two page spreads of something cool maybe happening among all the magic effects towards the end. More of that please.

I just read the most recent 100 year war story despite never having read Fairy Tale. I felt some shame reading that. Still there is something to admire about someone being so blatant about it and finding success.

HenryEx posted:

Speaking of generic shounen

Tag urself

i'm the smoking eye-tittied ballroom Micolash in the middle

next to me is my brother, the Lethal League candyman with his floating TWEWY pins

I need to read this.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 13:19

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# ? May 12, 2024 20:29

Cipher Pol 9: Oct 9, 2006

Darth TNT posted:

I just read the most recent 100 year war story despite never having read Fairy Tale. I felt some shame reading that. Still there is something to admire about someone being so blatant about it and finding success.

The best part of this is that I was talking about Eden's Zero. :unsmith:

But Mashima is Mashima everywhere.

At least nowadays, I don't know how his old stuff is. I can't complain too much anyway as I read his stuff for the mindless action and T&A, but I do wish he would improve on his treatment of women at least a little. They can be really cool characters, but he wants to draw creepy things happening to them whenever he can.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 13:42

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Rave is great

# ? Nov 15, 2018 14:39

Brought To You By: Oct 31, 2012

RatHat posted:

Nah the mole is probably that cultist that got away. He just led the demons there out of spite.

Then why bother with the line about questioning if the betrayer will reveal himself. Seems to imply that the traitor was someone from within. Which could mean anyone really

Dexo posted:

Rave is great

Rave Master was great when I first read it as a kid. Does not hold up as well during a re-read but still manages to be decent overall.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 14:47

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

I've wondered for a while how interesting/fun it would be to revisit a lot of old shounen manga that have long since wrapped up but were at the time at least fairly popular in English scanlation scenes. Houshin Engi and Flame of Recca are the two that come to mind for me, personally. Probably would've loved to include Rurouni Kenshin in that group but uh don't think I'm ever going to be in any rush to go back there.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 14:51

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

flame of recca doesn't hold up imo

yu yu hakusho is still fantastic tho. think I like it more now than I did as a kid

# ? Nov 15, 2018 14:52

Darth TNT: Sep 20, 2013

Cipher Pol 9 posted:

The best part of this is that I was talking about Eden's Zero. But Mashima is Mashima everywhere.

At least nowadays, I don't know how his old stuff is. I can't complain too much anyway as I read his stuff for the mindless action and T&A, but I do wish he would improve on his treatment of women at least a little. They can be really cool characters, but he wants to draw creepy things happening to them whenever he can.

I haven't read the newest Eden's Zero yet. Mangadex closed of their chapters temporarily and Jaimini's box hasn't updated yet.
But it can't possibly be worse than Fairy Tale 100, where a scantily clad dominatrix who is holding a leash with a subservient girl in a bikini who is on all fours covered in scratches and bruises praising her mistress (and used as a chair).....right?..._right?

# ? Nov 15, 2018 14:55

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

I only ever saw the YYH anime so I didn't include that, but otherwise that would certainly fit. I still stubbornly/irrationally maintain it to be the superior Togashi work over HxH (I haven't read/watched HxH in 15 years).

# ? Nov 15, 2018 14:56

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Flame of Recca's Manga deffo holds up

The art(after the first 4 volumes) is fantastic.

Fun magic itens. Good characters.

I loving love Flame of Recca and read it at least once a year or so.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 14:58

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

I remember thinking that the villain Joker in FoR was was one of the coolest motherfuckers. Who then kinda sorta shows up in that dude's other manga that I've forgotten and sadly turned out to be not that good, but it was neat he at least got some additional time to shine.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 15:01

Captain Invictus: Apr 5, 2005; Try reading some manga!; Clever Betty

Nate RFB posted:

I've wondered for a while how interesting/fun it would be to revisit a lot of old shounen manga that have long since wrapped up but were at the time at least fairly popular in English scanlation scenes. Houshin Engi and Flame of Recca are the two that come to mind for me, personally. Probably would've loved to include Rurouni Kenshin in that group but uh don't think I'm ever going to be in any rush to go back there.

Zatch bell still holds up pretty well. Does that count as old at this point?

# ? Nov 15, 2018 15:16

Mraagvpeine: Nov 4, 2014; I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.

Does Fist of the North Star still count as Shonen?

# ? Nov 15, 2018 16:37

Mulderman: Mar 20, 2009; Did someone say axe magnet?

Captain Invictus posted:

Zatch bell still holds up pretty well. Does that count as old at this point?

Close enough for me. I love Zatch Bell. The way they use and learn new spells is basically the good version of Black Clover's system.

Flame of Recca is dogshit though. Endless fighting with little substance.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 16:39

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Mraagvpeine posted:

Does Fist of the North Star still count as Shonen?

Nope, too manly.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 16:46

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

hottest of takes: fist of the north star is terrible

tho the art holds up

# ? Nov 15, 2018 16:48

Wark Say: Feb 22, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Mraagvpeine posted:

Does Fist of the North Star still count as Shonen?

Angry Lobster posted:

Nope, too manly.

OG Fist of the North Star was originally published on Weekly Shounen Jump, so at least on that statistic I think it counts. Also, that same series had JoJo for close to 20 years, so I do believe the shounen demographic tag does allow for some wiggle room wrt unabashed violencing and other topics.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 16:55

TriffTshngo: Mar 28, 2010; Don't get it twisted who your enemies are.

Nate RFB posted:

I only ever saw the YYH anime so I didn't include that, but otherwise that would certainly fit. I still stubbornly/irrationally maintain it to be the superior Togashi work over HxH (I haven't read/watched HxH in 15 years).

I'm a diehard YYH fan, rewatched the entire thing (or at least up through Sensui) probably close to a dozen times by now, and I only got into HxH with the 2011 anime but I have zero problems saying I like HxH more.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 16:56

Nate RFB: Jan 17, 2005; Clapping Larry

I'm almost certain that by any objective or subjective metric HxH is better, I'm just weirdly hung up on that series after it got delayed so many times that at this point I'd have to start completely over and just never mustered up the energy to do so.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:00

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

they're pretty different things. I like yyh way more than hxh, personally, but both are great

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:00

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Wark Say posted:

OG Fist of the North Star was originally published on Weekly Shounen Jump, so at least on that statistic I think it counts. Also, that same series had JoJo for close to 20 years, so I do believe the shounen demographic tag does allow for some wiggle room wrt unabashed violencing and other topics.

I was half-joking there. Hokuto No Ken is usually considered as seinen but to be honest the line between seinen and shounen is so thin that most of the time they are pretty interchangeable.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:01

Brought To You By: Oct 31, 2012

Angry Lobster posted:

I was half-joking there. Hokuto No Ken is usually considered as seinen but to be honest the line between seinen and shounen is so thin that most of the time they are pretty interchangeable.

It's a demographic name, not a genre. Whatever magazine the series ran in (or the target age group of the publisher) is what defines that particular tag. Plus Shonen aren't a stranger to violence, Kinnikuman back in the day had people getting ripped in half, YYH and HxH are both pretty brutal and graphic, but other 80s and 90s manga were as well. JoJos ran in a shonen magazine I think up until Stone Ocean, meaning all the body horror Araki loves was also shonen. Likewise, series like K-on are seinen.

Nate RFB posted:

I'm almost certain that by any objective or subjective metric HxH is better, I'm just weirdly hung up on that series after it got delayed so many times that at this point I'd have to start completely over and just never mustered up the energy to do so.

I want to recommend you jump in again, take your time on a re-read, and then start following the current arc. But the threat of these 8 month hiatuses is a pretty strong detterent. It's worth following along if you want my 2 cents. The current arc is amazing.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:10

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

I think I like YYH more than HxH.

HxH's highs are better, but goddamn HxH can get far too loving pretentious and exposition based at times.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:11

Wark Say: Feb 22, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

I love Yu Yu Hakusho. It's one of my fave old-school classics and I think that Togashi started showing some incredible promise even as early as the Spirit Detective Saga, even if it wasn't as consistent. The Dark Tournament Arc is straight up great and, while not at the same level, the Chapter Black Arc is also pretty good and it confirms that Togashi wasn't just a one-trick pony. That said, Hunter x Hunter is an entirely different beast which I like way more because of how Togashi has been good about keeping things fairly different and even willing to aim at your gut with no mercy.

Brought To You By posted:

It's a demographic name, not a genre. Whatever magazine the series ran in (or the target age group of the publisher) is what defines that particular tag. Plus Shonen aren't a stranger to violence, Kinnikuman back in the day had people getting ripped in half, YYH and HxH are both pretty brutal and graphic, but other 80s and 90s manga were as well. JoJos ran in a shonen magazine I think up until Stone Ocean, meaning all the body horror Araki loves was also shonen. Likewise, series like K-on are seinen.

I want to recommend you jump in again, take your time on a re-read, and then start following the current arc. But the threat of these 8 month hiatuses is a pretty strong deterrent. It's worth following along if you want my 2 cents. The current arc is amazing.

Funnily enough, all those series ran in the aforementioned Weekly Shounen Jump, so indeed, just because it's in that demographic, doesn't mean it ain't gonna get bloody.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:13

TriffTshngo: Mar 28, 2010; Don't get it twisted who your enemies are.

Chapter Black is a fun arc because it's a big chaotic mess directly after this orderly, structured tournament. I don't know if this was ever confirmed in an interview or anything but the human psychics' powers feel like Togashi testing out ideas he would later refine into Nen abilities, and that honestly makes it retroactively better to me.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:21

Beefstew: Oct 30, 2010; I told you that story so I could tell you this one...

My biggest issue with Chapter Black is the unjustified shonen escalation problem, where they're like, "oh, Toguro, who wished to be the strongest class of demon, and who we as if he was the most threatening, unbeatable fucker in the universe, was only B-Tier!" I know like every other serial does this, but Yu Yu Hakusho felt a lot smarter and more structured until that point, and the Toguro fight feels like the logical climax of the entire story, so the stuff after kinda feels like it retroactively cheapens it.
Don't get me wrong; I love YYH, but I've recently been rewatching it (in English, of course), and I couldn't help but have this problem.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:28

Wark Say: Feb 22, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

TriffTshngo posted:

Chapter Black is a fun arc because it's a big chaotic mess directly after this orderly, structured tournament. I don't know if this was ever confirmed in an interview or anything but the human psychics' powers feel like Togashi testing out ideas he would later refine into Nen abilities, and that honestly makes it retroactively better to me.

One of the few youtubers that I follow, Super Eyepatch Wolf, mentioned that it was less about "clean-cut" brawls/fights and more about how it had the makings of a gang/urban warfare of sorts, and I tend to agree since (spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the manga/seen the anime) , while in the Dark Tournament, Yuusuke got strong enough that he could go toe-to-toe against the Younger Toguro, in the Chapter Black he almost gets unceremoniously killed by Sniper Hagiri, and only gets saved by Hiei straight up crippling Hagiri. And unless you had previously watched it, it felt like Togashi was pulling the rug from under you.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:40

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Beefstew posted:

My biggest issue with Chapter Black is the unjustified shonen escalation problem, where they're like, "oh, Toguro, who wished to be the strongest class of demon, and who we as if he was the most threatening, unbeatable fucker in the universe, was only B-Tier!" I know like every other serial does this, but Yu Yu Hakusho felt a lot smarter and more structured until that point, and the Toguro fight feels like the logical climax of the entire story, so the stuff after kinda feels like it retroactively cheapens it.
Don't get me wrong; I love YYH, but I've recently been rewatching it (in English, of course), and I couldn't help but have this problem.

Eh, Chapter Black was way smarter and better structured than anything that came before it.

also the highest class of demon that the committee(that can grant any wish because money?) would know of is the B class demon, as no demon higher than B class can get through the gate.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:43

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Brought To You By posted:

It's a demographic name, not a genre. Whatever magazine the series ran in (or the target age group of the publisher) is what defines that particular tag. Plus Shonen aren't a stranger to violence, Kinnikuman back in the day had people getting ripped in half, YYH and HxH are both pretty brutal and graphic, but other 80s and 90s manga were as well. JoJos ran in a shonen magazine I think up until Stone Ocean, meaning all the body horror Araki loves was also shonen. Likewise, series like K-on are seinen.

I'm aware that's the tag for the intended demographic and it's strictly true that if some series gets published in a shonen magazine, then it gets the shounen tag, independently of it's content. Then you have series like Bastard! or the early works of Go Nagai (like Kekko Kamen) which were initially published by Shonen Magazine and later picked up by seinnen magazines. Shonen Jump was a bit weird in the 70s or 80s regarding what they decided to publish and what not. I find the whole matter pretty curious but still pointless to argue over it :v:

# ? Nov 15, 2018 17:47

dogsicle: Oct 23, 2012

i guess I'm in a similar place with HxH as NateRFB because as much as i think it's a good series, the production of it has definitely impacted my opinion of it. we're now at the point where Togashi is just writing pages of a novel and slapping a couple pictures on the page here and there, it's barely a comic. stuff like that is way more of a dealbreaker to me than just being on hiatus.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 18:01

Ytlaya: Nov 13, 2005

Dexo posted:

Flame of Recca's Manga deffo holds up

I found Flame of Recca to be extremely generic when I read it around like ~2008-2010 or so. I still read it to the end and was somewhat entertained, but it was about as close to a completely generic shounen battle manga as I can imagine.

Someone else mentioned Zatch Bell, and I feel like that holds up much better, since it has a unique gimmick and a pretty neat, distinct protagonist.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 18:04

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

It's generic but executed extremely well with fun protags, antihero's and villians

# ? Nov 15, 2018 18:09

rvm: May 6, 2013

Rokudou is the best 'harem' manga since TWGOK.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 23:19

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

We Never Learn is probably my favorite Harem going rn.

Another favorite I have now is Tonikaku Cawaii by the Hayate the Combat Butler writer

It's not a Harem, but still gives off that TWGOK feeling for some reason.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 23:42

rvm: May 6, 2013

TWGOK is 'Cabin In The Woods' of harem manga. There's also 'Funny Games' of harem manga written by Ryukishi of Higurashi fame, but all I remember of it that it sucks.

# ? Nov 15, 2018 23:54

Manatee Cannon: Aug 26, 2010

it's funny that rokudou's magic charm is one of the most believable setups for a protag being so popular of any harem manga

# ? Nov 15, 2018 23:58

gimme the GOD DAMN candy: Jul 1, 2007

the FoR mangaka really loves tournaments and really hates coming up with explanations for why those tournaments happen at all

# ? Nov 16, 2018 00:01

rvm: May 6, 2013

Manatee Cannon posted:

it's funny that rokudou's magic charm is one of the most believable setups for a protag being so popular of any harem manga

I loved the part early on where there's this girl who started to develop feelings for MC, only to get disillusioned once she saw his magic working. Rokudou is also one of the few manga that I actually had to stop reading because my stomach hurt from laughing. It was, I believe, a fight scene between MC and dominatrix chick featuring her vision of Rokudou as HnK's protag.

# ? Nov 16, 2018 00:12

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Harem manga are bad and you should feel bad for reading them

# ? Nov 16, 2018 00:58

Dexo: Aug 15, 2009; A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

the FoR mangaka really loves tournaments and really hates coming up with explanations for why those tournaments happen at all

There was only 1 tournament?

# ? Nov 16, 2018 01:00

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# ? May 12, 2024 20:29

Reiche: Jan 28, 2009; I like my coffee with cream and lsd.

Jose posted:

Harem manga are bad and you should feel bad for reading them

I find this true 99% of the time but I will defend Komatsu's muscleman harem in Toriko until the day I die

# ? Nov 16, 2018 01:10

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