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Vavrek posted:Try applying the base T'Jell template to the cyborgs? Haha thanks! It works! 
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Nov 15, 2018 18:36
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Wiz posted:Everyone but Exterminators, Purifiers and Devouring Swarms can. Vavrek posted:But I'm so hungry. I kind of feel like the swarm should be able to buy food, but maybe only from xenophobic or fanatic xenophobe empires? I don't think every empire would be willing to sell slaves knowing they would be the equivalent of soylent green, but fanatic xenophobes who already consider other species to be no better than pond scum might?
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Nov 15, 2018 18:44
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binge crotching posted:I kind of feel like the swarm should be able to buy food, but maybe only from xenophobic or fanatic xenophobe empires? I don't think every empire would be willing to sell slaves knowing they would be the equivalent of soylent green, but fanatic xenophobes who already consider other species to be no better than pond scum might?
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Nov 15, 2018 18:54
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PittTheElder posted:I don't understand why I'd ever want to sell a whole pop for only 500 energy credits. Aside from the numbers not being final, emergencies can happen. Maybe a purifier attacks you and you need the energy to buy alloys, or a crisis hits, or you just decide you want to terraform your capital into a gaia world right now. Or maybe they're recently conquered and tanking your planetary stability, so you want to get rid of them. Or maybe you just want to get rid of them to use the lebensraum for your own species. Besides, what's the productivity of an early game slave in Le Guin? Base output of 4 minerals or something like that? And they consume 1 food (presumably) and a small amount of consumer goods. 500 energy might be more than 10 years worth of net productivity, which doesn't seem that bad. Especially if you're having housing problems and can't afford to build more cities at the time. It also depends on the exchange rate you get on the market, you might be able to invest the energy into another starbase to collect trade or another colony ship or a district or whatever, which might have a better return than keeping the slave pop. Speeding up your expansion could be very valuable. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Why would xenopboes be the only ones willing/able to sell food to xenos? I think the idea was that they'd be the only ones willing to sell slaves as food.
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Nov 15, 2018 19:01
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binge crotching posted:I kind of feel like the swarm should be able to buy food, but maybe only from xenophobic or fanatic xenophobe empires? I don't think every empire would be willing to sell slaves knowing they would be the equivalent of soylent green, but fanatic xenophobes who already consider other species to be no better than pond scum might? It's more from a 'a swarm wouldn't even bother with/understand the diplomatic and economic infrastructure needed to engage in pop trade' perspective.
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Nov 15, 2018 19:05
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Wiz posted:It's more from a 'a swarm wouldn't even bother with/understand the diplomatic and economic infrastructure needed to engage in pop trade' perspective. I figured it'd be something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QETfA9_b7wM&t=3s
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Nov 15, 2018 19:12
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With regards to this system feeling icky- this game already has a genocide feature. It's full of really, really icky things with gameplay systems carefully constructed to support them. What I like about that is playing someone who's not a monster and fighting against that kind of thing. But to that end I'd like more tools to do that. It looks like wars of ideology are getting less wonky in the next version, which is great, but I'd also like to be able to do something to crack down on the galactic slave market eventually. Even though I like the weird dynamic of buying slaves to free them... which weirdly incentivizes other people doing more enslaving. Brother Entropy posted:this is why paradox people always have to futilely go 'numbers in dev diaries are not final'
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Nov 15, 2018 19:57
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Wiz posted:It's more from a 'a swarm wouldn't even bother with/understand the diplomatic and economic infrastructure needed to engage in pop trade' perspective. Yeah, that makes sense. Staltran posted:I think the idea was that they'd be the only ones willing to sell slaves as food. Yep. I feel like not every empire that is fine with slavery would be acceptable with explicitly killing those same pops. Maybe some of them are squeamish enough to call it indentured servitude instead of slavery; an empire like that wouldn't want to outright slaughter the slaves.
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Nov 15, 2018 19:58
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Wiz posted:It's more from a 'a swarm wouldn't even bother with/understand the diplomatic and economic infrastructure needed to engage in pop trade' perspective. Technically abducting pops is a form of trade. Swarms should get the option to abduct pops automatically.
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Nov 15, 2018 19:59
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Really? 500 seems like a lot to me. The current nominal cost of a robot is 100 minerals and i assume the internal economic costing of a bio pop is 100 food. The cost isn't the energy, it's the time you don't have to spend waiting for pops to grow. Energy income isn't hard to find, so this is potentially a very easy way to boost your pop growth very substantially.
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Nov 15, 2018 20:01
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I like the idea of an egalitarian empire buying up slaves to free them. This encourages everyone to interact with the system instead of just slavers (which I feel too uncomfortable with to play, honestly).
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Nov 15, 2018 20:08
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Yeah just like I mentioned earlier, having corporations in SPACE and slavery in SPACE and species eating each other in SPACE and immigrants/refugees in SPACE is like "ahh I don't know about this" for me. Plus the really big focus on war crimes and genocide and blowing up planets full of living beings or exterminating them, space being scary and full of mean interdimensional ghosts, I get the thematic choice but I find it's not my preference. I'm more about the conquering poo poo and having fleets and doing the 4x gameplay, and yes I get those are there for flavor and immersion. This is why I play robot hive minds but now that trade is not an option for gestalts, I'll look for some other stuff. It would have been neat to see Stellaris done in a sort of "Legend of Galactic Heroes" style / tone instead of the "ooga booga space ghosts and eating sapients lmao  " style, for me.
Ham Sandwiches fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Nov 15, 2018 |
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Nov 15, 2018 20:13
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blowing up spaceships of living beings is fine but corporations or slavery is a step too far?
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Nov 15, 2018 20:19
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logh had all of that except cannibalism and aliens though. slavery is up to interpretation
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Nov 15, 2018 20:22
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Ham Sandwiches posted:I'm more about the conquering poo poo and having fleets and doing the 4x gameplay, and yes I get those are there for flavor and immersion. What do you think the "reality" of conquering poo poo is?
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Nov 15, 2018 20:22
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hobbesmaster posted:What do you think the "reality" of conquering poo poo is? You can model or simulate whatever you want in a videogame. In this particular space game about picking a set of traits and heading into the stars to exploit resources and fulfill whatever objectives your species has, I don't find that the choices to include that level of detail add to the game. And for me, they detract. quote:logh had all of that except cannibalism and aliens though. slavery is up to interpretation Yeah that's my point you can do a heavy space opera without the cannibalism. It is in fact doable.
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Nov 15, 2018 20:27
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hobbesmaster posted:What do you think the "reality" of conquering poo poo is? I would prefer it if Stellaris was closer to Legend of the Galactic Heroes in its presentation of space warfare. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37diFSm_vPA Cannibalism free zone.
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Nov 15, 2018 20:33
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Just fuckin' lol if you imagine your ships having fragile bio-pop crews.
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Nov 15, 2018 20:34
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Both psi shields and psi jump drives make direct reference to the crew being on board. Don't know of any other parts that do though. E: quote:The Psi Jump Drive harnesses the psi energies emitted by the crew to force the vessel through the very fabric of reality, instantly "jumping" vast distances.
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Nov 15, 2018 20:38
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Rynoto posted:Both psi shields and psi jump drives make direct reference to the crew being on board. Don't know of any other parts that do though. The fluff text in the game seem to indicate private property and even "corporations" exist within my empire. The fluff text is mostly incorrect.
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Nov 15, 2018 20:40
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Wiz posted:Everyone but Exterminators, Purifiers and Devouring Swarms can. The Swarm would like to lodge a formal complaint about this heinous discrimination and demand that the Galactic Market allow them access to the
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Nov 15, 2018 20:57
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So I turned my cyborgs into wholesome psionic citizens and everything is great. One thing that feels more like an exploit though: I originally tested it with a small number that had migrated to a different planet by applying the base species template to them, this was real quick and I could then assimilate the two pops that didn't have cybernetics anymore in just a single year. Then after that I could go to the species window and apply the template with psionic ascension to the cyborgs and complete the project for all 135 of them in 7 months because my science output is awesome, rather than having to wait for years and years where it trickles in at maybe 4 per year, with no unhappiness or unrest to deal with either. And I finally bothered finishing and colonizing my ringworld. Apparently one of the workers was disgruntled because they installed the Infectious event on section B and killed off 8 pops and ruined a physics tile by turning it into a monument at the end. P.S. Why does my ringworld come with alien pets and 6 tiles of betharian stone? The system I built it in didn't even have any resources in it. I'm not complaining, but seems kinda silly that a builder just creates some alien pets when working on sculpting artificial continent.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:02
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You know, with the new planet management, I bet you could make a pretty cool pre-FTL mechanic.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:18
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Ham Sandwiches posted:You can model or simulate whatever you want in a videogame. In this particular space game about picking a set of traits and heading into the stars to exploit resources and fulfill whatever objectives your species has, I don't find that the choices to include that level of detail add to the game. And for me, they detract. It's practically invisible unless you decide to participate in those mechanics. Like, there's the Delicious trait, and setting the purge type to consumption, and that's it. There's no news ticker proclaiming the number of lives lost to the meat packing plants or anything in the diplomacy screens. In comparison slavery is more visible because there's more mechanics that relate to it (civics, techs, traditions, occasional mentions in the factions demands) but during the course of regular gameplay it is also mostly invisible unless you participate. If it's the idea that things exist at all that nags at you constantly then I'm surprised you've lasted this long on the internet.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:23
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Geemer posted:P.S. Why does my ringworld come with alien pets and 6 tiles of betharian stone? The system I built it in didn't even have any resources in it. Sounds like somebody made a trip to Vergon 6 and brought back some Nibblonians.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:25
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isndl posted:It's practically invisible unless you decide to participate in those mechanics. Like, there's the Delicious trait, and setting the purge type to consumption, and that's it. There's no news ticker proclaiming the number of lives lost to the meat packing plants or anything in the diplomacy screens. In comparison slavery is more visible because there's more mechanics that relate to it (civics, techs, traditions, occasional mentions in the factions demands) but during the course of regular gameplay it is also mostly invisible unless you participate. Ah yes and yet strangely enough I have no problem with things in general, or the internet, and somehow I do question the particular design decisions in Stellaris. When Sword of the Stars can do a better job figuring out how to do the tone with immortal crazy space dolphins and vicious rats that bore through space, I think that's telling. However, maybe you like Stellaris particular choice of representation, and that's great. Making that statement doesn't require me to make some weird backhanded jab about how your standards are weird or how it must be toooottallly hard on the internet with your bizarre beliefs or whatever.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:29
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wouldn't a backhanded jab just be a slap
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Nov 15, 2018 21:32
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Stellaris is a science fiction sandbox. If you want it to fit a particular level of science fiction optimism/pessimism, make a shitload of empires that fit what you want and don't let randos spawn. Rehashing this conversation for the umpteenth time is super unnecessary because it's always the same people having it.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:34
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Geemer posted:P.S. Why does my ringworld come with alien pets and 6 tiles of betharian stone? The system I built it in didn't even have any resources in it.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:42
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Splicer posted:They found them while tearing planets and asteroids apart. Yeah the betharian stone deposits were too deep inside of a planet to detect before it was broken up into bits and the alien pets are just baby graboids.
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Nov 15, 2018 21:50
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Ham Sandwiches posted:Ah yes and yet strangely enough I have no problem with things in general, or the internet, and somehow I do question the particular design decisions in Stellaris. Aren't the vicious rats eating people anyway? I think I remember that from the lore
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Nov 15, 2018 22:11
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isndl posted:There's no news ticker proclaiming the number of lives lost to the meat packing plants or anything in the diplomacy screens. More notifications about other empire's internal matters would go a long way to giving us more things to easily care about besides painting the galaxy our color.
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Nov 15, 2018 22:14
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So, galactic twitter?
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Nov 15, 2018 22:17
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Psycho Landlord posted:Stellaris is a science fiction sandbox. If you want it to fit a particular level of science fiction optimism/pessimism, make a shitload of empires that fit what you want and don't let randos spawn. Rehashing this conversation for the umpteenth time is super unnecessary because it's always the same people having it. I'm continually amazed that people continue to engage Ham "Every game is XCom" Sandwiches in good faith debate
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Nov 15, 2018 22:19
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Eiba posted:I know this isn't the type of thing you meant but it reminded me that I really want some sort of atrocity popup. Optional of course, but something that lets you know a purge started, or a species reintroduced slavery after you fought a war to ban it five years ago. Or even that these people have synths now and (chose one) that's an affront to god/they're oppressing conscious beings. Yeah, that's exactly what I want. I want country's crimes and atrocities to be known and effect the game more than some strictly numerical relationship penalty. And I want mechanics related to this that would give me a way to react. Let me know my neighbour is doing a genocide, or has just conquered and enslaved a primitive species, and let that be a valid CB to intervene.
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Nov 15, 2018 22:20
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Eiba posted:I know this isn't the type of thing you meant but it reminded me that I really want some sort of atrocity popup. Optional of course, but something that lets you know a purge started, or a species reintroduced slavery after you fought a war to ban it five years ago. Or even that these people have synths now and (chose one) that's an affront to god/they're oppressing conscious beings.
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Nov 15, 2018 22:49
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With the slave market, can we buy slaves and free them? Quick way to fill up the population on our planets I guess.
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Nov 15, 2018 23:03
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Splicer posted:A galactic news ticker came up earlier in the thread and I still want it. Chirpy: Now in cyborg, psychic, perfect genetic being, sleek immortal machine, hive mind, Borg, and robot bird swarm flavors!
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Nov 15, 2018 23:04
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IAmTheRad posted:With the slave market, can we buy slaves and free them? Dev diary said you could.
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Nov 15, 2018 23:04
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Pyroi posted:Dev diary said you could. One of the megacorps did it in the dev clash.
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