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Adus posted:This is one of the weirdest takes on a contestant I've seen in quite a while. i mean, the game he's being selfish in is the one with 20 winners and millions of players
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Nov 16, 2018 22:06
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My position on Christian has changed a lot after this last episode. Maybe it was the edit but they made it look like Christian got word he was in trouble and instead of even attempting to politic his way out of it he just curled up and accepted his fate. Nick and Davie had to hatch the plan to save him, and while Christian could have just been hamming it up to not give away the blindside, and they could have edited out a lot of conversations between Davie, Nick, and Christian, it does feel like he was overwhelmed by the moment and got saved.
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Nov 16, 2018 22:15
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I'm of two minds. One, I do agree that he got kind of overwhelmed and frazzled. Allowing himself to get into a fight in Tribal with Angelina was out of character and a mistake. Its like getting in a fight with Angelina in Tribal is like the mark of a mistake in this season. She's always going to be inviting it with someone but you shouldn't bite and he did. He just seemed pretty out of it. On the other hand I don't think its totally fair to judge him not scrambling. For one, we don't really know what happened. Obviously he was in on the vote with Nick and Davie so the edit clearly left something out. Its possible he was blind to what was happening but its also possible he was scrambling with the rest of the Davids and they all made the plan together and the show just didn't show us that to maintain the surprise. So its tough to knock Christian not knowing what he did or didn't do. And if he didn't know about the plan or the powers then scrambling to the Goliaths probably could have only hurt him and the Davids. So while I do agree that Christian's first clear game flaws were exposed this week and he dropped a bit in my rankings, I don't think it was really a big misplaying episode or anything. He's just obviously very vulnerable in the game, the alliances he formed on the other side didn't hold up, and he reacted badly to the pressure. He's gonna have to do better if he wants to win because Davie and Nick won't be saving him down the line.
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Nov 16, 2018 22:28
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Frustrated posted:My position on Christian has changed a lot after this last episode. Maybe it was the edit but they made it look like Christian got word he was in trouble and instead of even attempting to politic his way out of it he just curled up and accepted his fate. Nick and Davie had to hatch the plan to save him, and while Christian could have just been hamming it up to not give away the blindside, and they could have edited out a lot of conversations between Davie, Nick, and Christian, it does feel like he was overwhelmed by the moment and got saved. Christian voted for John with Davie and Nick though. So, it seems more likely that it was down to editing. Also, it kind of shows the game that Christian is actually playing in that Davie wasn't part of their 3 Davids and 3 Goliaths alliance, yet still aligned enough to use his idol.
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Nov 16, 2018 22:43
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:Also, it kind of shows the game that Christian is actually playing in that Davie wasn't part of their 3 Davids and 3 Goliaths alliance, yet still aligned enough to use his idol. I feel like that was more indicative of editing sleight of hand belying the fickle nature of the Strike Force arrangement rather than Christian's social game (though surely it factored in at least somewhat). There was also that moment between Carl and Davie (I think) when they were confused about why the Goliaths were taking Christian out first. They said something to the effect of "but he hasn't even done anything!" So in one sense, we're seeing a guy who built most of his game on nerdy charisma (which, to be fair, probably saved him in the Elizabeth boot episode), threatening intelligence and the pure luck of getting placed on the strongest pre-merge tribe, but is now struggling in his first taste of true adversity/being bailed out by two people who have had to play harder to survive. But on the other hand, yeah, there was nothing he could really do that wouldn't blow up the plan.
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Nov 16, 2018 23:41
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I really don't think Christian's done anything terribly wrong to this point. He had multiple alliances on the other side. He's extremely well liked. He's been strong in challenges but not dominating. He's just a threat so no one is gonna help him to the end. I don't really blame him that his two Goliath alliances betrayed him. He had them, it just didn't work out. But now he's gotta rebound and come up with a new gameplan. If he made any mistake it was getting too complacent, but its hard to say that when just a few days prior they formed Strike Force. Like, really, isn't the story more that Mike did a 180 just days after forming an alliance and decided to burn them at F12, and Alec and Allison went with it? And they did that after creating Goliath drama by fighting to save Christian? Golaiths just kinda playing weird. SLICK GOKU BABY posted:Also, it kind of shows the game that Christian is actually playing in that Davie wasn't part of their 3 Davids and 3 Goliaths alliance, yet still aligned enough to use his idol. Eh, I think from a practical place Davie HAD to save Christian. The Davids need each other right now or they're getting pagonged. If Davie had saved his idol maybe it would have worked out if he managed to weave around until the Goliaths divided, but with the vote steal and veto nullifier and with Alec telling them Christian was the target they were handed a rare opportunity to completely flip the majority in two Tribals. That doesn't happen very often and it makes all kinds of sense to play it and get to F5 (or close when you figure out your end game plan).
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Nov 16, 2018 23:53
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SLICK GOKU BABY posted:Christian voted for John with Davie and Nick though. So, it seems more likely that it was down to editing. The Strikeforce 3 Goliaths/3 Davids alliance ceases to exist when one of its members (Mike) pushed to vote out the other (Christian).
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Nov 16, 2018 23:53
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Yeah, I mean, Christian looks happy when the idol play happens, he doesn't look surprised. Angelina, on the other hand..... Also, I'm disappointed AF that John and Christian didn't have a manly bro hug after the votes were read. TheCenturion fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 00:10
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The Brochachos falling out felt less like betrayal and more like 'well, I guess this is where we part ways. Sorry buddy.'. They were part of the group that flipped the vote from Christian last week (really not sure why the logic was to get out Elizabeth first), and this week there was enough momentum from the other Goliaths that John and Dan just shrugged and went, 'well, don't rock the boat I guess' (and Angelina not calling the shots probably made it more palatable). It's not like Christian campaigned to save John, either (that we saw). I think Christian's winner chances dropped, but on the other hand if Davie and Nick start taking more heat then it'll be easier for him to get to the end without being singled out at every vote. The Goliaths really screwed up by taking out Elizabeth instead of Christian. Her just existing would mean that there's friction between her and Carl and reducing the chances of a united David front. Christian being gone also means that Gabby probably has a meltdown and less cohesiveness tying the Davids together all around.
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Nov 17, 2018 01:19
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TheCenturion posted:Also, I'm disappointed AF that John and Christian didn't have a manly bro hug after the votes were read. It's cool, he's still Comptroller of Slamtown 
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Nov 17, 2018 01:38
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ApplesandOranges posted:The Brochachos falling out felt less like betrayal and more like 'well, I guess this is where we part ways. Sorry buddy.'. They were part of the group that flipped the vote from Christian last week (really not sure why the logic was to get out Elizabeth first), and this week there was enough momentum from the other Goliaths that John and Dan just shrugged and went, 'well, don't rock the boat I guess' (and Angelina not calling the shots probably made it more palatable). It's not like Christian campaigned to save John, either (that we saw). I mean, I'd argue that any time you say "I'm voting for X" and you vote for them its kind of a "betrayal." But sure, of the Brochachos didn't have any real alliance or promises then its not a "betrayal" the way it is with Mike, Alec, and Allison. Obviously you hope your relationships help you out the way they helped Christian last week and the way John feels if he had done more work with Davie and Nick it might have saved him. But no, its definitely not the same think as a "backstab" or something like the Strike Force did. I wonder if there's more we didn't see. Its obvious there's at least some of what happened with the Davids that the show left out for the sake of the story (which I 100% respect and appreciate). I wonder if there was anything more from the Strike Force Goliaths that didn't ft the story either. It kind of surprised me that Allison went along seemingly so easy without having the same instincts Alec had. She seemed like she had a good relationship with Gabby and not giving her a head's up on this seems like it would burn that. But its possible something happened and it just got lost in the edit between Mike wanting Christian out and Alec warning Nick. Like its theoretically possible there was a whole thing of Allison warning Gabby, Gabby warning Christian, the two freaking out and strategizing together, and then Nick and Davie (and Carl) letting them in on things. Who knows? The whole thing of the Strike Force Goliaths excitedly forming an alliance and doing work to protect it, and then a day later going "eh, lets blow it up and burn a few jurors" just really is something I want to ask them questions about. Like, I get why they wanted Christian out/didn't want to rock the boat too much. Its just such a quick turn of events.
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Nov 17, 2018 02:49
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Rarity posted:It's cool, he's still Comptroller of Slamtown Acting mayor, now, but City Council Head Dan is going to introduce a lot of procedural delays.
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Nov 17, 2018 03:25
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STAC Goat posted:I mean, I'd argue that any time you say "I'm voting for X" and you vote for them its kind of a "betrayal." Well, there was Ben's double-agent plan in HvHvH, but I digress. Betrayal is a bit of a strong word, I think? Christian knew he was a threat that the Goliaths wanted to remove. He had to have known his relationships with Dan and John were fading after the merge (and none of them seemed interested in rekindling them). So I don't think he was surprised at all. I don't think John was betrayed by Christian. Blindsided? Sure. But there were no unspoken agreements to protect each other. He was betrayed more by Alec than anything, even though Alec voted with him. I'm not really sure if there's room for a Goliath to win at this stage. Dan and Angelina have been the most visible, but I honestly can't see how either of them wins. If Alec hadn't broke his NDA, maybe, but nah. Kara is too linked to Dan right now. Mike... I just can't see it. Alison is arguably in a nice position, but I feel like we would have seen more of her if she'd won.
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Nov 17, 2018 04:31
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STAC Goat posted:I mean, I'd argue that any time you say "I'm voting for X" and you vote for them its kind of a "betrayal." I keep going back to Gabby's emotional reaction at TC before Elizabeth got voted out. I mean, yeah, she's hyper-fragile, and maybe part of all that was an act to protect against any possible suspicions about Strike Force, but it felt more like a honest emotional response to legitimately being on the bottom. Mike had that confessional where we were led to believe that her outburst was the tipping point in Mike's "turn back to Goliath", but that sounded like a weak excuse - he must have been leaning that way anyway. And why shouldn't he have been? Strike Force, while a fun collection of personalities for the audience to enjoy, was also basically a collection of the biggest threats in the game (save for Gabby). Also, if Alec's commitment to the Davids really does outweigh his commitment to the Goliaths, then thats potentially a 4-2 disadvantage for Mike and Allison when they get to that point. Disbanding that crew made sense for his game, but he probably shouldn't have made that commitment in the first place.
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Nov 17, 2018 05:37
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Gabby is shaping herself up to be a great goat though. She's on a great Hannah-from-MvG trajectory. Not as visible as Angelina, but at least Angelina can argue that she tried to make some moves that executed poorly. Gabby has 'made bonds with Alison and fought her way from the bottom', and I feel like her being a bit of a social recluse is gonna cost her a lot of potential jury votes other than whoever she was with in Tiva.
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Nov 17, 2018 06:59
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Propaganda Machine posted:I know this might seem odd, but think critically about what you get out of the Survivor grand prize. Source your quotes lmao maybe only a car with no payments
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Nov 17, 2018 16:28
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edit: missed the joke
blue squares fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 16:38
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TheCenturion posted:Yeah, I mean, Christian looks happy when the idol play happens, he doesn't look surprised. Angelina, on the other hand..... Kind of hoping that John brings Christian into the ring somewhere as some kind of crossover work. It would be so loving awesome.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:43
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Vernacular posted:Disbanding that crew made sense for his game, but he probably shouldn't have made that commitment in the first place. And like, I get that too. You make mistakes and change your mind. Its just sloppy gameplay.
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Nov 17, 2018 19:30
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That reward challenge holding sandbags could have made a great pre-merge challenge with tribes still around. That "holding 3 bags in one hand to show off" mistake would have been much worse when you go back to camp and everyone hates you for costing them a reward. Now it was just some teams chosen on the spot so there was no consequence other than not getting some (apparently lovely) pizza.
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Nov 17, 2018 21:34
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Yeah, that could have been a really fun challenge like that similar one where they have to chase each other carrying sandbags. But I'll settle for the comedy option of Dan blowing it by being a cocky douchebag.
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Nov 17, 2018 21:51
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Superanos posted:That reward challenge holding sandbags could have made a great pre-merge challenge with tribes still around. That "holding 3 bags in one hand to show off" mistake would have been much worse when you go back to camp and everyone hates you for costing them a reward. Now it was just some teams chosen on the spot so there was no consequence other than not getting some (apparently lovely) pizza. A very similar challenge has been run on Australian Survivor during the pre-merge and it’s been great both times.
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Nov 17, 2018 23:57
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I wish there wouldn’t be team challenges after the merge.
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Nov 18, 2018 00:38
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So, obviously the next TC is money in the bank for the Davids if they decide to stick together and use the vote stealer + idol nullifier combo. The more interesting question now is whether or not they decide to share that information with the Goliaths beforehand. They could do what Malcolm did in Caramoan and blow poo poo up at TC, but I think it might be more effective/fun if they gave them the scoop on the beach a good amount of time before TC and let them stir/fracture/lobby to not be the ones to be voted off. That might also allow them to hold off on even using the advantages if the well gets poisoned enough. The downside is that it could ruin a chance to flush Dan's idol, but it might be worth it to inject chaos into the Goliaths, and I feel like at least -one- of them (cough Alec cough) would take the bait and vote with them, thus probably becoming more of a persona non gratta with the Goliaths when they get to 5-5. Another option I guess is for Nick to pay Alec back by telling him this privately and expressing a desire for them to keep working together. I dunno, either way next week is going to be a good one. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 01:33
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Dan's The odds are with them, obviously, but there's still a chance and I think to that end you gotta give the Goliaths as little time and room to strategize as possible. Even for Nick giving Alec a return of favor seems like a risk. Alec is after all the guy who has made a habit of betraying his allies so that's not the guy you should trust with potentially crucial info. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 02:26
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How does Dan have veto power? Does he have an advantage (in addition to the idol) that I'm not remembering?
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Nov 18, 2018 03:46
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I think STAC is just confusing Big Brother with Survivor and meant to say HII instead of Veto.
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Nov 18, 2018 03:54
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Yeah, my bad. It was the Big Brother nerd in me taking control. I blame "VOTE Steal" getting my dumb monkey brain all confused.
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Nov 18, 2018 04:34
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Alec May go down as one of the dumbest to ever play the game.The Bloop posted:Source your quotes Hey that Maybach isn’t going to pay for itself.
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Nov 19, 2018 04:50
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Meh. Alec isn’t terrible. I prefer him to all the wet blankets that have played over the years.
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Nov 19, 2018 05:03
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Alec is fine. He's playing both sides and getting away with it, which is more than you can say for 99% of people who try that. He was trying to blur tribe lines and create a new group that would be favorable to him; it's not his fault that Mike got cold feet and decided to chisel the tribe lines in stone.
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Nov 19, 2018 18:31
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Alec is the kind of guy to walk fine lines.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:48
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It's kind of funny, but the more I see from him, the more I "get" that picture. The "gently caress it" mentality that led him to post that stupid photo is the same one that makes him so entertaining and unpredictable on the show. And it's entirely possible that he could still come out of this situation on top; CBS did an Instagram poll on who was the most popular remaining castaway, and Alec came in second to Christian by an extremely small margin: 1465 to 1445. For context, the next highest vote getter was Nick, at 822. So Alec is one of two runaway favorites among casual audiences and is dangerously close to being THE favorite player from this season at this point, so there's already a growing movement to #UnbanAlec from the reunion show. We'll see if CBS capitulates. Probably not, but you never know, especially if he continues to do well going forward. In other news, Mike came in dead last. 
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Nov 19, 2018 20:09
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Is an Instagram poll really a measure of "casual favorite"? While I still think his move to eliminate Natalia was stupid and petty he's playing ok enough right now. I don't want to excuse him and Allison for the 180 on Strike Force. Yeah, Mike was the driving force there from what we saw but they still went with it. As far as Alec it just seems similar to the Natalia thing as he doesn't seem to put a TON of forethought into things and kind of goes with what he's feeling at the moment. That can work and in a lot of ways I think adaptability is the most important skill you need to have in the game. But it can also just be sloppy and "kaotic". I suspect Alec's playing too fast and loose to win. Some Goliath will find out he's been ratting and some David will get shaky that he's covering his own rear end. But we'll see. I suspect fans will like him unless he does something because (a) he's a force of some chaos which can be fun to watch and (b) he got "banned" so some fans will get a kick out of backing him.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:54
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Zesty posted:Alec is the kind of guy to walk fine lines. This is the picture that got him in trouble? Why?
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Nov 19, 2018 21:25
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Bigass Moth posted:This is the picture that got him in trouble? Why? The girl in the picture is Kara
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Nov 19, 2018 21:36
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I guess the relevant question would be when and where it was taken. That would be spoilers I’m sure.
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Nov 19, 2018 21:44
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I find Alec and Angelina to be opposite players. Angelina has good ideas (take Christian out, curry favor with Jury), but is absolute poo poo at executing them. Alec’s ideas seem to hinge only on stirring the pot, but he executes them fairly flawlessly. His leak to Nick was a master stroke in execution (despite what you think of the move), and his flipping back and forth has yet to draw much negative attention. We’ll see if this changes next week post-tribal, but thus far he seems fairly under the radar with a good handful of solid relationships.
heybrother fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 21:46
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Spergatory posted:It's kind of funny, but the more I see from him, the more I "get" that picture. The "gently caress it" mentality that led him to post that stupid photo is the same one that makes him so entertaining and unpredictable on the show. And it's entirely possible that he could still come out of this situation on top; CBS did an Instagram poll on who was the most popular remaining castaway, and Alec came in second to Christian by an extremely small margin: 1465 to 1445. For context, the next highest vote getter was Nick, at 822. So Alec is one of two runaway favorites among casual audiences and is dangerously close to being THE favorite player from this season at this point, so there's already a growing movement to #UnbanAlec from the reunion show. We'll see if CBS capitulates. Probably not, but you never know, especially if he continues to do well going forward. I think Mike has been a net positive for the session entertainment wise, so that's kind of a shame. Maybe it's just reflective of this being a pretty good cast but there are a couple people's names I still can't remember.
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Nov 19, 2018 21:49
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Bigass Moth posted:This is the picture that got him in trouble? Why? All season I've been very torn on this because on one hand it seems very trivial and not worthy of punishment, but on the other hand I guess like hundreds of former Survivors have managed to not do it and he clearly knew he was breaking some kind of rule for some dumb reason so gently caress him?
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Nov 19, 2018 21:53
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