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My apologies, I'd never heard of the guy and assumed he was a normal Catholic guy. https://i.imgur.com/ZmULPev.mp4
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Nov 17, 2018 15:13
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HEY GUNS posted:yeah but he claims to have converted to orthodoxy, notwithstanding that his views on everything (like demons, in the link) are non-Orthodox He started pit a Methldist, then converted to Catholocism, and then to Orthodoxy.
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Nov 17, 2018 15:51
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HEY GUNS posted:yeah but he claims to have converted to orthodoxy, notwithstanding that his views on everything (like demons, in the link) are non-Orthodox I’m tempted to think a lot of Protestant converts to Orthodoxy a la Dreher are really Trad Caths who want sexier liturgy, beards, and gold leaf not to mention more lax teachings on birth control
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Nov 17, 2018 16:23
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Cnidario posted:I’m tempted to think a lot of Protestant converts to Orthodoxy a la Dreher are really Trad Caths who want sexier liturgy, beards, and gold leaf He says he converted to Orthodoxy from Catholicism because of the sex abuse scandal and the "lavender mafia" behind it.
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Nov 17, 2018 16:35
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Epicurius posted:He says he converted to Orthodoxy from Catholicism because of the sex abuse scandal and the "lavender mafia" behind it.
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Nov 17, 2018 16:36
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I wonder, did the Church evaluate this person with their criteria of universal knowledge of language, secret knowledge, etc. or was it Dreher’s own Benedict Option community?
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Nov 17, 2018 17:20
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ThePopeOfFun posted:I wonder, did the Church evaluate this person with their criteria of universal knowledge of language, secret knowledge, etc. or was it Dreher’s own Benedict Option community? From the Orthodox point of view, Dreher is spreading misinformation that, by making people believe they can be harmed by demons, increases the odds that they will. From the Catholic point of view, since they have strict formal criteria for determining whether or not someone is possessed, this family is making things worse by failing to follow up the allegation. No matter which religion you are, these are half-educated people who have just enough knowledge to put themselves in danger. The husband is spiritually abusing the wife and now she's been driven insane by it. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 17:26
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HEY GUNS posted:he also believes there is a secret conspiracy of trans people Involved in the sex abuse coverup? Or is this an unrelated secret conspiracy of trans people?
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Nov 17, 2018 17:27
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Epicurius posted:Involved in the sex abuse coverup? Or is this an unrelated secret conspiracy of trans people?
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Nov 17, 2018 17:29
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HEY GUNS posted:Unrelated. I thinnk we and the gay people divide conspiracies between us. This conspiracy is to stare at cis people in line for the movies and say rude things to them. "ugh can't you guys handle the plot to force Scary Urban Thugs to move into the suburbs? we're still busy with this bathroom thing"
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Nov 17, 2018 18:12
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StashAugustine posted:"ugh can't you guys handle the plot to force Scary Urban Thugs to move into the suburbs? we're still busy with this bathroom thing"
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Nov 17, 2018 18:15
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You get checks? Man, the LGBT conspiracy has it good! My conspiracy only gets a 10% discount at TGI Friday's!
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Nov 17, 2018 19:16
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yeah but that water isn't going to flouridate itself
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Nov 17, 2018 20:50
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Spacewolf posted:You get checks? Man, the LGBT conspiracy has it good! My conspiracy only gets a 10% discount at TGI Friday's! I get vouchers for free food at PopeYes.
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Nov 17, 2018 23:46
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Rod Dreher writes ridiculous sex and trans-panic articles, his schtick is to start off with "this is a totally real thing that happened to a friend of mine" and then tell an absurd story. HEY GUNS mentioned his transphobic movie theater story, where a mother and her teenage son are harassed by a gang of trans people while standing in line. The story starts by describing how for his birthday, the teenager wanted to go to the movies with his mom. Which is a totally normal thing teenage boys do for their birthday. Sure thing, Rod!
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Nov 17, 2018 23:57
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Pellisworth posted:Rod Dreher writes ridiculous sex and trans-panic articles, his schtick is to start off with "this is a totally real thing that happened to a friend of mine" and then tell an absurd story. His Benedict Option book is full of this stuff. Hey, Somebody who comments on my articles told me that their kids’ elementary school is making them accept trans eight year olds! It’s patently absurd. Also, lol @ accusations of a ‘lavender mafia.’ I’m not one to judge, but it seems like an awfully shallow reason to convert
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Nov 18, 2018 02:51
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As a Catholic, I don't understand supposedly religious people getting mad at trans/cis/etc. When I'm judged, do I want to say, "I wasn't sure if I should love them as my brother or as my sister, so I just treated them like poo poo instead," or would I rather say, "I wasn't sure if I should love them as my brother or as my sister, so I just treated them as my brother and my sister." Other people's private parts just doesn't seem like something I should concern myself about. 
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Nov 18, 2018 03:52
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Ynglaur posted:Other people's private parts just doesn't seem like something I should concern myself about. Thanks, I really appreciate this sentiment, because the sheer amount of people that immediately have an opinion on LGBT issues that doesn’t concern them is just simply staggering For example, when a coworker I hardly interact found out that I was in a long-distance relationship with another man specifically went out of her way to find me and lecture me on how I should start a polyamorous relationship so that “you can get hosed while you’re here” (her exact words)
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Nov 18, 2018 06:47
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Trans-phobia and queer-phobia in general confuses me, too. I guess all I can say is that almost everything related to sex and sexuality triggers all sorts of strong feelings in people. Sometimes it's attracting, sometimes divisive, and sometimes contradictory. People may go to violence over it. Disgust is talked about as playing a big role, and how that manifests so differently in people is a mystery to me.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:48
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Having had some experience with bigotry from the inside, as it were, I think I can answer that. It really comes down to insecurity. In particular, I think it relates to how people orient themselves towards strength and vulnerability, happiness and suffering. The idea that the world rewards us for our merits (even before worrying about what is or isn't meritorious) is a fragile one, because it isn't true. To defend the idea of a just world, then, you have to assign flaws to people who are suffering or unhappy in order to explain their suffering. This is incredibly important because if you cannot do this, you have no way of protecting yourself from suffering -- no amount of merit will save you. If you are a generally happy and fulfilled person, this takes the form of defending what you have as justly earned, allowing you to deflect or ignore claims that you have more resources or power or authority than you deserve and should share. At any rate, to see suffering puts you on the defensive. If you are a generally unhappy person, this takes the form of internal self-loathing that most people can't tolerate for very long. You need some hope that by self-improvement you can suffer less, which you will probably cling to, and the sight of someone who (from your perspective) is flawed in the same ways you are being happy or successful despite this will be hideous to you, because it suggests that what is wrong with you is even more immediate and personal, and perhaps incurable. Again, to see suffering (your own or others!) puts you on the defensive; you want to distance yourself from it any way you can. The practical upside of this is that a society which believes in the "just world" fallacy will have to explain oppression in terms of moral or meritocratic failings of the oppressed. On top of that, the more intimately your personal strength, ability, and merit tie into your identity, the more defensive you will be. If, for example, your idea of manhood is completely bound up in domination (that you won't ever fully realize because other people have wills and agency), in being a material provider (that you often won't be able to be because capitalism is bullshit), and in never showing vulnerability (which is impossible because everyone is vulnerable) then the most terrifying thing you can imagine is being a woman. The next worst thing is being seen the way you see women. So gay men are a threat to your identity because suddenly just being a man isn't enough by itself to put you in the "safe", happy, powerful category, and transgender people of either persuasion are a threat to your identity because they threaten to erase the category completely. And, crucially, maintaining the separation -- that you deserve to be happy because of who and what you are and others don't -- is easier than admitting the absolutely terrifying possibility that bad things just happen to people for no good reason and there's no surefire way to protect yourself. The cure for all of this is recognition that the world really is terrifyingly unjust, that all of us are vulnerable, and that the best defense we have is to pull together, prioritizing the needs of the most vulnerable. This is a theme that is common to leftist politics and to Christianity, and I think a big part of the wedge driven between the two (which wasn't the case only ~150 years ago) is the extent to which American Protestantism in particular married itself to the idea of a just world, and to a very mechanistic idea of how God interacts with and is reflected in that world, operating to reward good behavior with good outcomes. (And of course, this isn't an exclusively Protestant problem by any means, because the idea leeched into the groundwater of American moral thought in general, and even as a confused atheist/deist hybrid or whatever I count as right now I still have to deal with my unexamined intellectual debt to this idea from time to time.) All of which is why Job is one of the most important books in the Old Testament. 
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 08:56
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Ynglaur posted:As a Catholic, I don't understand supposedly religious people getting mad at trans/cis/etc. When I'm judged, do I want to say, "I wasn't sure if I should love them as my brother or as my sister, so I just treated them like poo poo instead," or would I rather say, "I wasn't sure if I should love them as my brother or as my sister, so I just treated them as my brother and my sister." that would get awkward but seriously, thanks edit: although there's some privilege at work here, since life seems to have been pretty ok for most trans men in the medieval and early modern periods, and for much of the modern period as well. i've read a life of a medieval person we would call a trans man and as soon as the other monks figure out what's going on after he dies their first response is admiration and happiness. that would not have happened with a trans woman, i think. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 12:28
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happyphage posted:Thanks, I really appreciate this sentiment, because the sheer amount of people that immediately have an opinion on LGBT issues that doesn’t concern them is just simply staggering
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Nov 18, 2018 12:29
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i really think studying the 17th century has made me a better person, or at least a more resilient person, because at their best these are people who know deeply that the world is some bullshit and they live despite this
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Nov 18, 2018 12:32
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Thanks Tuxedo Catfish, that was really insightful. I really do wonder if a lot of homophobia and transphobia is rooted in misogyny. It's why trans women are loathed and hated in a different way to trans men. (not that I'm saying trans men have an easy time). On some level, to these bigots, a woman wanting to be like a man is understandable, but a man wanting to be like a woman is disgusting. Because men are greater and women are lesser. Sorry for the language. I know trans women are women. Just trying to work out how these people think.
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Nov 18, 2018 12:53
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Caufman posted:I get vouchers for free food at PopeYes. cythreal, since you like posting cute pics and gifs, you might like seeing R O M P A N D F R O L I C (a team of six of these dudes makes a cameo appearance in They Shall Not Grow Old, which tbh was my favorite part of the movie)
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Nov 18, 2018 14:36
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HEY GUNS posted:some people get weird when i tell them i am monogamous for religious reasons yeah, I get that a lot too
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Nov 18, 2018 14:54
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happyphage posted:yeah, I get that a lot too
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Nov 18, 2018 18:31
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HopperUK posted:Thanks Tuxedo Catfish, that was really insightful. I think it has a lot to do with ours being a patriarchal society and fear of emasculation. Trans women are treated differently than trans men because the former are emasculating themselves, giving up their male-ness to "become" a woman. Oh and of course they're doing it so they can use women's bathrooms and prey on young girls, if you're perverted enough to want to "become" a woman then it only makes sense you're also a pedophile or whatever. Similarly, gay men are perceived differently than lesbians. I guess I'm agreeing with you HopperUK. I should add that I don't hold it against any posters in this thread that have religious objections to LGBTQ stuff, obviously we disagree but that's fine! I think it's important to point out, however, that our society's general perception of trans women vs. men and gay men vs. lesbians is not the same. There are valid religious/moral aspects to the conversation, but there's also a TON of misogyny, patriarchy, fear of emasculation, etc. edit: basically, men doing things that are traditionally considered feminine or submissive is Very Bad however, women doing masculine things or not doing feminine things is kinda just
Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 18:39
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my first boyfriend is a woman today, and holy hell did she get a nasty shock when she discovered how women are treated in society 
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Nov 18, 2018 18:58
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Ynglaur posted:As a Catholic, I don't understand supposedly religious people getting mad at trans/cis/etc. When I'm judged, do I want to say, "I wasn't sure if I should love them as my brother or as my sister, so I just treated them like poo poo instead," or would I rather say, "I wasn't sure if I should love them as my brother or as my sister, so I just treated them as my brother and my sister." I hate to spoil it for you, but a huge number of Catholics have a huge problem with LGBT issues and try to justify it based on Genesis 1:28. The bit about 'be fruitful and multiply'. HopperUK posted:Thanks Tuxedo Catfish, that was really insightful. Hitting the nail right on the head there, and I'm still somewhat convinced that you can trace it all the way back to the very foundations of the Church, given what we know about Roman attitudes towards women as well.
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Nov 18, 2018 19:59
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Ramakrishna Shakta theology on marriage / monogamy is, uh, highly culture dependent he has a bunch of sermons directed ultra specifically at day to day concerns of Bengali Hindus, which are quite sensibly not included in the revised batch translated for foreign consumption, but interesting reading if you get through that and are still curious for a Hindu guru, he's super subversive and nontraditional, though, and the gist as applied to monogamy is similar to the gist as applied to anything else: if polyamory is an experience that you genuinely think will enrich your soul, go ahead as long as you don't freakin' hurt anybody The classic traditional Hindu moral life is one in which the elderly become basically monks in their old age / retirement age, and one of the ways Ramakrishna is subversive is that he takes that as more of a suggestion and a "eventually your incarnations will move in that direction, or you will organically decide you're done with the other stuff" concept than a strong moral injunction. (reminder that Sri Ramakrishna, noted weirdo and major contributor to the philosophical underpinnings of modern Unitarianism, is the theological founder of my particular subset of my particular subset of Hindus) Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 00:29
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Pellisworth posted:I think it has a lot to do with ours being a patriarchal society and fear of emasculation. I've long theorized that a major strain of male homophobia is fear of being treated the way women are treated. https://i.imgur.com/5ssy3bZ.mp4
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Nov 19, 2018 02:49
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HEY GUNS posted:i appreciate you  When one feels like they are often just a sinner and a stranger, it's nice to be only one of those things.I also now work with an old man who is Greek Orthodox by marriage. I tell him I know someone who encourages folks to be Orthodox(ier). Tuxedo Catfish posted:Having had some experience with bigotry from the inside, as it were, I think I can answer that. That was an illuminating and commendable post. When you put it that way, suffering from both sides of bigotry is not alien to me, either =\
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Nov 20, 2018 06:18
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So the parliament of world religions was just held in Toronto, and I'm happy to say Heathens Against Hate (of which my blót guild is a signatory) came and held a baller lecture on inclusive heathenry! This lady knows what's up: 
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Nov 21, 2018 15:21
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let's all join together to excommunicate nazis
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Nov 21, 2018 15:25
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Caufman posted:I also now work with an old man who is Greek Orthodox by marriage. I tell him I know someone who encourages folks to be Orthodox(ier). from reddit today: 
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Nov 21, 2018 15:27
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Here's the lecture itself, pretty good stuff, esp for people who are not appraised of the nazi situation within heathenry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJlGmNun_JE
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Nov 21, 2018 15:34
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hegel grimoire trip report number 3: the lesser key of solomon. this is very influential. crowley read it, the chaos magicians from the 70s read it (and turned it into BULLSHIT, but i digress  ), and what nobody says is that it teaches you how to summon infernal spirits (usually evil), spirits of the air (good or evil), and angels of the planets, hours, and zodiac (good)...who will teach you the kinds of things you learn in college. Astronomy, liberal arts, rhetoric, ethics, medicine, law. is this just the world's most arduous correspondence course? online courses exist now! you do not have to summon a spirit with the body of a wolf, the wings of a griffin, the tail of a snake, and the head of a human being, who speaks one third truth and two thirds lies, to appear within your magic circle and then teach you engineering! http://www.esotericarchives.com/solomon/lemegeton.htm#contents also it's here that sigils start being sigils of the spirit you're summoning, rather than a symbol of God that you show to the spirit you're summoning in order to intimidate it. edit: you can also summon your guardian angel into a crystal, so you can look at it HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Nov 21, 2018 |
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Nov 21, 2018 17:42
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I always liked the way Pratchett's wizards were just a bunch of crusty nerds.
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Nov 21, 2018 17:56
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Mr Enderby posted:I always liked the way Pratchett's wizards were just a bunch of crusty nerds.
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