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pumpinglemma posted:Wow, that completely refutes my position that the Dem leadership is good and progressive. I love Schumer and Pelosi, as anyone who follows my posting is well aware! Guess we'd better just roll over and die because fighting is hard, right? it refutes your smarm about "you should've changed things in the primary". people tried to change things in the primary, but the dem leadership was far more interested in getting blue dogs in. now we have blue dogs that won't deal with climate change and you're still blaming us. quote:Soo... you want massive change in the form of a climate denialist government in the hope that maybe ten years down the line things will be better? When it's already too late for anything more than damage limitation and every passing year costs us more? no, i want the dems to stop rigging their elections for blue dogs that won't address climate change, and I want them to start advocating for climate change policies that might actually work. don't try to pin arguments I haven't made on me idiot.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:03
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Gritty is the People’s Hero.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:06
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Also "Hillary and Bill crossed crossed a strike on their first date" comes from her own book Living History. "We both had wanted to see a Mark Rothko exhibit at the Yale Art Gallery but, because of a labor dispute, some of the university's buildings, including the museum, were closed. As Bill and I walked by, he decided he could get us in if we offered to pick up the litter that had accumulated in the gallery's courtyard. Watching him talk our way in was the first time I saw his persuasiveness in action. We had the entire museum to ourselves. We wandered through the galleries talking about Rothko and twentieth-century art. I admit to being surprised at his interest in and knowledge of subjects that seemed, at first, unusual for a Viking from Arkansas. We ended up in the museum's courtyard, where I sat in the large lap of Henry Moore's sculpture Drape Seated Woman while we talked until dark." Things people on the left use to complain about the Clintons often come from her own books since she is fairly tone dead on stuff that is bad but to her isn't a big deal.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:12
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Data Graham posted:Doesn't Paul directly contradict himself in another verse where he's all like "Women can be as loud as they want in church, they just need to wear hats" Not all the letters of Paul are Paul, a fair bit of the shittier stuff is other writers. Gotta read the NT with an understanding of what groups won the internal fights early. The Jews and women (some rich, some with more valid leadership claims and one even an apostle!) lost so the Greeks poo poo on them, rewriting to poo poo on them.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:13
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Radish posted:Also "Hillary and Bill crossed crossed a strike on their first date" comes from her own book Living History. the funniest thing about "hillary owned slaves" is that it also came from her own book but people didn't realize until after the election because absolutely nobody actually read her book
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Nov 17, 2018 17:14
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Prester Jane posted:The modern-day Democrats are not going to save us from climate change either.  .I mean, we even have a perfect blueprint for how to recapture a political party that's out of touch with its base! It's called the tea party and it worked really well! And it worked by primarying everyone who stepped out of line and protesting anyone who got through, not by voting libertarian. (And I would be entirely down with e.g. daily protests outside Schumer's office, which would inconvenience him a hell of a lot more than a single green party vote.) The reason that I prefer a strategy with a reasonable chance of working over a strategy with no chance of working has nothing to do with privilege. Condiv posted:it refutes your smarm about "you should've changed things in the primary". people tried to change things in the primary, but the dem leadership was far more interested in getting blue dogs in. now we have blue dogs that won't deal with climate change and you're still blaming us. pumpinglemma fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 17:21
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pumpinglemma posted:I mean, we even have a perfect blueprint for how to recapture a political party that's out of touch with its base! It's called the tea party and it worked really well! And it worked by primarying everyone who stepped out of line and protesting anyone who got through, not by voting libertarian. This is such a disingenuous and ahistorical argument. Setting aside the fact that the Tea Party was an astroturfed movement funded by billionaire insiders- the Tea Party never for even a fraction of a second stopped bitterly criticizing Republicans who they thought were not pure enough. And they pretty openly refused to vote for candidates who were insufficiently right, which is a big reason* why their effect on the primaries was so dramatic. *Perhaps even the primary reason. Edit: Like..... do you not get that posters like myself are way way way way closer to a leftist tea party dragging the party left than you are? I mean the very first step of dragging the party left is relentlessly criticizing leadership when it acts against the will of the people- not keeping our criticisms in the designated "Free Speech Zone" of the primary season and then falling in line and bleeding in unison thereafter. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 17:28
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pumpinglemma posted:I mean, we even have a perfect blueprint for how to recapture a political party that's out of touch with its base! It's called the tea party and it worked really well! And it worked by primarying everyone who stepped out of line and protesting anyone who got through, not by voting libertarian. (And I would be entirely down with e.g. daily protests outside Schumer's office, which would inconvenience him a hell of a lot more than a single green party vote.) The reason that I prefer a strategy with a reasonable chance of working over a strategy with no chance of working has nothing to do with privilege. that's true of the leadership but it also inspired a new slew of progressive candidates with much bolder positions to run, since it was obvious those leaders were out of touch and couldn't be relied on to win. saying losses have no chance of forcing change is just wrong.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:29
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Radish posted:Also "Hillary and Bill crossed crossed a strike on their first date" comes from her own book Living History. That is why everyone should brace for it to be 10 years from now and instapot to turn out to be owned by a guy that is bad or something and every internet superstar to breathlessly post that AOC is a nazi supporter who does free advertisement for nazis because she live streamed her mac and cheese thing for fun.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:34
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Prester Jane posted:This is such a disingenuous and ahistorical argument. Setting aside the fact that the Tea Party was an astroturfed movement funded by billionaire insiders- the Tea Party never for even a fraction of a second stopped bitterly criticizing Republicans who they thought were not pure enough. And they pretty openly refused to vote for candidates who were insufficiently right, which is a big reason* why their effect on the primaries was so dramatic. If the Tea Party actually did refuse to vote for insufficiently rightwing candidates in the general (not just the primaries), and that was a major part of why they were effective, then that's news to me - do you have a link?
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Nov 17, 2018 17:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:That is why everyone should brace for it to be 10 years from now and instapot to turn out to be owned by a guy that is bad or something and every internet superstar to breathlessly post that AOC is a nazi supporter who does free advertisement for nazis because she live streamed her mac and cheese thing for fun. people keep posting that she'll be the victim of the smear machine but the thing you're missing is that people actually like AOC and she actually believes the things she says. it's much harder to smear someone in the bernie mold than the clinton mold.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:37
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:That is why everyone should brace for it to be 10 years from now and instapot to turn out to be owned by a guy that is bad or something and every internet superstar to breathlessly post that AOC is a nazi supporter who does free advertisement for nazis because she live streamed her mac and cheese thing for fun. uh, if you think being a scab is something that wasn't recognizably bad back when hillary did it, i dunno what to tell you
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Nov 17, 2018 17:39
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pumpinglemma posted:How did you take a post in which I advocated daily protests outside Schumer's office and turn that into "we shouldn't criticise bad dems, purity tests are counterproductive"? it's almost like you'll never win this argument that prester jane has made every single day for the past year plus
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Nov 17, 2018 17:40
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Gritty is the People’s Hero. Gritty is a forced meme that's becoming uncomfortable to watch happen.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:45
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"forced meme" aka "popular meme i don't like"
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Nov 17, 2018 17:47
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Condiv posted:uh, if you think being a scab is something that wasn't recognizably bad back when hillary did it, i dunno what to tell you It's more of the same bullshit where AOC can't use any product created by capitalism (like clothes) without being a hypocrite but breaking a strike and bragging about how romantic it was is a smear since I guess that was cool at the time.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:48
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:That is why everyone should brace for it to be 10 years from now and instapot to turn out to be owned by a guy that is bad or something and every internet superstar to breathlessly post that AOC is a nazi supporter who does free advertisement for nazis because she live streamed her mac and cheese thing for fun. Yeah, because crossing picket lines and being a scab is something that was only recognized as an issue decades after the fact and based on information that wasn't publicly available.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:48
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Twinty Zuleps posted:Gritty is a forced meme that's becoming uncomfortable to watch happen. Sorry people like Gritty.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:48
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Sorry people like Gritty. It is cargo-culting a Leftist Pepe into existence two years too late.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:50
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man you do not know how words work.
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Nov 17, 2018 17:53
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pumpinglemma posted:How did you take a post in which I advocated daily protests outside Schumer's office and turn that into "we shouldn't criticise bad dems, purity tests are counterproductive"? You know what I glazed over that portion of your post and that's on me, I apologize. That's said I think the nature of our disagreement here is that I simply do not believe that going along and supporting bad/weak leadership in the face of this kind of crisis is a good idea. I come from the school of thought that half-measures* are often ultimately much worse then doing nothing at all, and the Democratic party has present constituted is premised on the idea that half measures are the best that you can ever achieve anyways- so they often compromise down to quarter measures. *e.g. the ACA, while a genuine improvement over the status quo; it is turning out to have accomplished little more than kicking the can of total collapse of American Healthcare down the road a few more years. It ultimately changed nothing about the underlying dynamics that cause the unfairness of American Health Care, and in reality further entrenched those dynamics in such a way that it will be much harder to undo later. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Nov 17, 2018 |
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Nov 17, 2018 17:53
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https://twitter.com/MaxKennerly/status/1063555385020375045
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Nov 17, 2018 17:54
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:In 40 years kids are going to get face tattoos as a popular trend almost entirely because of the amount it flips the wig of our generation. It's going to be people our age as old people at future thanksgiving absolutely melting down into tears seeing their grandkids with dickbutt on their face. It feels almost sad that we are going to eventually run out of escalation for new generations making the past generation absolutely freak out about the moral evil of tattoos. I mean that is pretty much the entire appeal of takashi sixty nine
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Nov 17, 2018 17:55
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Twinty Zuleps posted:It is cargo-culting a Leftist Pepe into existence two years too late. What's it like, to have so little joy in life? Gritty looks like he just did the world's biggest coke bump and all he wants to do is skate and kill fascists, how can you not love him?
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Nov 17, 2018 17:56
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I know a lot of people look at Pelosi's "super majority for taxes on the poor" thing poorly, but I kind of love it. Any argument about what Republicans might do is invalid, they are already doing this bullshit in statehouses and if they think they have the votes they'll do it nationally no matter what dems do. There is no slippery slope, the Republican party is gonna dive as deep as they can no matter what. So why this 80% rule? It's like the Byrd rule. The Byrd rule prevents us from doing good things in a specific way in one chamber, and when the house tried to do those good things and things went sideways in the senate they had the byrd rule to bullshit on and say "too bad, can't do this with 50 votes". This works similarly in the house, but any bill it shuts down, the people who won't make it passable in the house, they are trying to raise taxes on the poor. It also fucks with the tedious republican strategy of "lower taxes, wreck the economy, make the democrats fix it and be the bad guys". New defense spending bill. But how will we pay? Certainly not by raising taxes on the loving bottom 80%.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:00
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Twitter could trim a whole lotta low-hanging fruit with minimal effort if they just one day banned everyone with emoji in their usernames. Sure a number of regular folks would get caught up in it, but the hit-rate for chuds, facists, and MLM-sellers would be drat near 100%.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:00
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Prester Jane posted:You know what I glazed over that portion of your post and that's on me, I apologize.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:10
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Nevvy Z posted:I know a lot of people look at Pelosi's "super majority for taxes on the poor" thing poorly, but I kind of love it. Any argument about what Republicans might do is invalid, they are already doing this bullshit in statehouses and if they think they have the votes they'll do it nationally no matter what dems do. There is no slippery slope, the Republican party is gonna dive as deep as they can no matter what. People think of it poorly because it's the dumbest loving idea that gets you nothing while essentially making things like M4A substantially more difficulty. And the 79th percentile in income isn't poor. Just like a multimillionaire who has negative income in one year because of specific losses isn't poor. And if they can't raise taxes to pay for the military, it's not like that has ever, at any time, stopped them before.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:12
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80% percentile is right around the "low-income" threshold of San Francisco 😎
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Nov 17, 2018 18:22
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pumpinglemma posted:The thing is, though, actual honest-to-god medicare for all is now considered a litmus test among most of the base. If you can get that through, that's not a half-measure, it's an actual solution. Same for abolishing ICE. And AOC's Green New Deal looks like it's heading the same way. Yes, it will probably take kicking out the current leadership to get any of this stuff in place. But once that does happen - and it could be as early as 2020 if Warren wins the primary - there's the prospect for real change. And it can happen, too. The Labour party in the UK was in basically the same position the dems are in now pre-Corbyn, having surrendered all the big-picture arguments to the right in exchange for short-term gains from triangulation, and complete with the leadership using every dirty trick in the book against any leftist insurgency. And then Corbyn won the leadership contest anyway. Now they're a pretty legitimate left-wing party. Warren's not winning the primary.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:25
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An actual good rule would be one requiring a supermajority to cut taxes on corporations and the top 20% of individuals. But that'd piss off their donors, so it'll never happen.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:29
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https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeMyGod/status/1063807017293234177 The world would be so much better without christianity    
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Nov 17, 2018 18:29
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https://twitter.com/timothywjohnson/status/1063506458585833472
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Nov 17, 2018 18:33
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Yup, shoulda just grown Mr Fantastic arms
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Nov 17, 2018 18:34
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:
now there's a spicy take up with Mithraism! Down with the Nailed God!
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Nov 17, 2018 18:34
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GreyjoyBastard posted:now there's a spicy take I've always believed that the world would've been so much more fun with the Greek or Roman pantheons still around as major religions. Goat offerings, orgies, good-time stories and entrail reading - what's not to love?
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Nov 17, 2018 18:37
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joepinetree posted:People think of it poorly because it's the dumbest loving idea that gets you nothing while essentially making things like M4A substantially more difficulty. And the 79th percentile in income isn't poor. Just like a multimillionaire who has negative income in one year because of specific losses isn't poor. And if they can't raise taxes to pay for the military, it's not like that has ever, at any time, stopped them before. * I'm guessing a little bit there since the brackets on that site don't cover the full range, but it's definitely at least 80%. Basically, the low-hanging fruit on tax really is taxing corporations and the ultra-rich until their bones creak. Trying to squeeze everything possible out of the merely rich is viscerally satisfying, and a good idea in the long-run, but not actually necessary short-term. Mantis42 posted:Warren's not winning the primary.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:37
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medicare for all would have most people's taxes go up. warren isn't corbyn. bernard is.
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Nov 17, 2018 18:39
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Junior G-man posted:I've always believed that the world would've been so much more fun with the Greek or Roman pantheons still around as major religions. Goat offerings, orgies, good-time stories and entrail reading - what's not to love? Goat offerings, orgies, good time stories and entrails reading. You've never been to Florida have you?
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Nov 17, 2018 18:40
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warren isnt winning not because of ideology but because of lack of charisma and political savvy
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Nov 17, 2018 18:41
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