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MarquiseMindfang posted:Trusts? yeah, im hype to get to kill poo poo with my good children Krile and Alphinaud
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Nov 18, 2018 05:58
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Re: Death Spells, It's possible they were talking theoretical/eventual, or just giving an example of how BLU could be an issue. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they were also seeding in some special/new monsters into the world for the purpose of having skills for BLU.
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Nov 18, 2018 05:58
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homeless snail posted:Feeling empathy for your avatar right now I am very much enjoying the irony of "Show empathy to others you piece of poo poo, now here is an avatar referencing a serious down point in your life because empathy is only for the video game job I'm angry about." It's almost like empathy wasn't actually the crux of the argument. ~mysterious~
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Nov 18, 2018 05:58
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Hold up I may be wrong. It was specifically mentioned in the liveletter in regards to why they balanced BLU but I'm trying to comb through it and find where exactly they mentioned it's in. There's a chance they may have used it as a hypothetical but that seems weird that they would use it as a hypothetical for their actual balancing decisions if they didn't plan on adding it. Could be a translation thing? Don't get hyped over Death just in case lol. It is one of those iconic BLU moves though so I do hope it makes it in some form.
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Nov 18, 2018 05:59
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Babe Magnet posted:Hold up I may be wrong. It was specifically mentioned in the liveletter in regards to why they balanced BLU but I'm trying to comb through it and find where exactly they mentioned it's in. There's a chance they may have used it as a hypothetical but that seems weird that they would use it as a hypothetical for their actual balancing decisions if they didn't plan on adding it. Ah well. It'll be neat if it's in if just because of the hilarity of oneshotting Titan or something.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:00
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ImpAtom posted:I am very much enjoying the irony of "Show empathy to others you piece of poo poo, now here is an avatar referencing a serious down point in your life because empathy is only for the video game job I'm angry about." It's almost like empathy wasn't actually the crux of the argument. ~mysterious~ Don't worry, we all felt the pain that was the Mercy ultimate nerf. 
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Nov 18, 2018 06:01
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it'll be cool if BLU can kit itself to tank for stuff, so that my friend who was bummed about not being able to have The Mage Party of blu/blm/rdm/whm will get his dream
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Nov 18, 2018 06:01
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Yeah if the entire point of BLU is that it's supposed to be a crazy solo-focused class then Death has to make it in. It would feel incomplete without it.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:01
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Countblanc posted:yeah, im hype to get to kill poo poo with my good children Krile and Alphinaud I am too actually Does undermine the BLU-as-solo-expert concept a little though
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Nov 18, 2018 06:02
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MadFriarAvelyn posted:Don't worry, we all felt the pain that was the Mercy ultimate nerf. I haven't played in a while but I've heard that "Mercy Nerf" is pretty much the same as "the sun rises" these days.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:02
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They showed Death when they were showing its abilities. I think after Mighty Guard.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:02
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...Huh. Well, I just learned about the "Limited Job" system and I'm surprised they actually went ahead and did it this way. I really thought it was going to be a full-fledged job and this was just a way to preview it. Oh well, still hyped for 5.0. And maybe BLU will eventually be tuned for regular play in the future.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:02
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They should make it so that you have to have certain spells equipped in order to use the Duty Finder.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:05
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Countblanc posted:it'll be cool if BLU can kit itself to tank for stuff, so that my friend who was bummed about not being able to have The Mage Party of blu/blm/rdm/whm will get his dream
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Nov 18, 2018 06:05
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Blockhouse posted:They showed Death when they were showing its abilities. I think after Mighty Guard. I knew I wasn't crazy!!
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Nov 18, 2018 06:05
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oh no blimp issue posted:GUN is a healer where you shoot people to make them better But we have CHM for that.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:18
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Did they say anything about using Trusts or squadrons to do dungeons as a BLU? Or are they just locked out of all Duty Finder content?
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Nov 18, 2018 06:18
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I think it's a missed opportunity to really strike out into new territory with BLU as a tank class wielding (Magic) hammers/rods and getting hit to enable Monster Skill. That said I'm pretty much over it, I was never hype for BLU as a dps, so if they can do something creative with whatever the gently caress a Limited Job is then sure, go ahead.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:19
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DizzyBum posted:Did they say anything about using Trusts or squadrons to do dungeons as a BLU? Or are they just locked out of all Duty Finder content?
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Nov 18, 2018 06:24
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Captain Cappy posted:*whispers* you can do all that stuff with a regular class too i'm a filthy casual who's not good at video games
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Nov 18, 2018 06:25
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I can't wait for Dancer to be revealed to exist only in a Suzaku DDR-style minigame
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Nov 18, 2018 06:30
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I'm not upset about not taking BLU into end-game content, I'm upset that I won't be able to use BLU in any Duty Roulettes. The thing most players tend to do every day. The Carnival thing might be fun, but the problem is once you run out of that content or if that content sucks, BLU is basically dead at that point. I really doubt they're gonna make it strong enough to solo dungeons and Primals at their intended level, unless they just give it broken abilities like lvl5-Death; at which point, they'd stomp any kind of overworld content, and break pre-made parties. So, that wouldn't fit the "solo experience" dream either. Desfore fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Nov 18, 2018 |
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Nov 18, 2018 06:37
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Blockhouse posted:on further reflection blue mage is bad because it means I have to read this argument happening over and over for the next two months bare minimum
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Nov 18, 2018 06:49
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somepartsareme posted:its not like we're even losing a "real" job, we're getting this before the expansion, and still getting 2 jobs in shadowbringer, they said they would never do 3 at the same time again after heavensward. it's like being mad that the new golden saucer content or big fishing isn't A Job I Can Take Into All COntent!!! lol nyttyn posted:Just replace "Blue Mage" with whatever your favorite class is, mentally, if you want to understand why people are upset. Guess we should delete all things that aren't relevant to end game progression content. Gold Saucer? Gone. Housing? Gone. This isn't World of Warcraft. Not everything has to only be about end-game progression.
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Nov 18, 2018 06:54
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Countblanc posted:it'll be cool if BLU can kit itself to tank for stuff, so that my friend who was bummed about not being able to have The Mage Party of blu/blm/rdm/whm will get his dream Please... Yoshi... I beg of you
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Nov 18, 2018 07:00
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I look forward to this thread being screaming an endless loop of eureka and blue mage doomsaying until, say, it's revealed it'd take a bare minimum of four months of work by the entire server to unlock Ishgard housing.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:09
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I feel like BLU was a missed opportunity to do their own take on World of Warcraft's druid class, functioning as the ultimate versatility job. They could have made players choose between tank, DPS, and healer roles and have learned monster skills specific to each of those roles. This would let them control what skills are usable in which stance to allow the team to deal with balance issues. You would be locked into whatever stance whenever you enter instanced content, or if you're in the middle of combat.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:09
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Mordiceius posted:This isn't World of Warcraft. Not everything has to only be about end-game progression. why LoL at me and then repeat my point!
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Nov 18, 2018 07:11
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Mordiceius posted:lol The system itself is good in theory (remains to be seen in practice, of course, given the game's somewhat hazy track record with alternate content). Using blue mage for it was an enormous mistake, and is what makes people upset. The sightseer log doesn't deny a class from being used in the lion's share of content. The gold saucer doesn't deny a class from this. Housing doesn't deny a class from this. Eureka, deep dungeons, et all - systems that don't entirely cut off classes from being used in the majority of gameplay. Blue mage's current implementation denies it use in the lion's share of content, and that is what upsets people. I get when people say they want to see crazy combos and whatever, but it comes at the cost that said class can no longer be a thing as one of the classes allowed to participate in the majority of relevant content, barring some sort of extremely expensive 180. Blue mage was one of the most popular requests for a class added, which is why it is such a sore spot, since this effectively denies people the dream of blue mage as a class they can play for most of the game for the sake of what is a glorified minigame and way to revisit obsolete content.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:14
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Mordiceius posted:Guess we should delete all things that aren't relevant to end game progression content. I mean I'm fairly sure nobody would miss Verminion and the outcry from Chocobo Races vanishing would be tiny. Even Squadrons could probably go without much complaining. More importantly neither of those things eliminates the concept of an actually anticipated piece of content. You don't need to job change to Corsair to participate in the Gold Saucer. You don't need to job change to Dancer just to use dance emotes. Those things existing doesn't take away anything but dev time from the game. People are mad that the potential of one of the last remining core FF jobs to be added to the game has been completely wasted on another Verminion/Squadrons thing.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:14
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somepartsareme posted:why LoL at me and then repeat my point! Sorry, I was agreeing with you. I just liked your wording. 
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Nov 18, 2018 07:20
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nyttyn posted:The system itself is good in theory (remains to be seen in practice, of course, given the game's somewhat hazy track record with alternate content). The options were to jam the blue mage into the caster DPS (or hell, even tank) mold and then listen to people be upset that it's not an authentic blue mage (oh look, the summoner outcry all over again) or make it an authentic blue mage but have it be not group-friendly. I personally think the latter option is more interesting. People want blue mages to learn abilities from monsters. That right there makes it very unfriendly to groups. Hell, it's why they removed abilities being learned from class quests - because it was unfriendly to groups. There were plenty of times you'd end up in a duty with players missing abilities because they ignored the class quests. It would loving suck to end up with a blue mage in your group that only has 3 (bad) abilities because they're loving idiots and didn't learn more abilities. So the alternative is to just have blue mages get abilities automatically, which (I think) would be an even bigger outcry because why even have a blue mage in the game if they aren't learning abilities from monsters. This whole blue mage class is a very "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. I don't believe there is any way to force the blue mage shaped peg into the caster dps or tank hole and keep the true spirit of the blue mage. They've always been a very loving weird class. I'm glad that they're being given the opportunity to really embrace the weirdness of the class. I understand people are upset because they wanted to raid as blue mages, but I'm starting to wonder what they wanted out of the class and how they would have wanted implemented.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:28
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MarquiseMindfang posted:I mean I'm fairly sure nobody would miss Verminion and the outcry from Chocobo Races vanishing would be tiny. Even Squadrons could probably go without much complaining. So what people are mad about is the Blue Mage name being used for side content instead of a full job? Because having Blue Mage as a full job instead of this weird thing would mean that it doesn't get to mechanically be a blue mage.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:38
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Willias posted:So what people are mad about is the Blue Mage name being used for side content instead of a full job? Because having Blue Mage as a full job instead of this weird thing would mean that it doesn't get to mechanically be a blue mage. there are lots of ways you could accomplish this in an MMO setting while being true to the spirit of the class. capture monster's souls to allow you to modify a core set of abilities and become Soma, allow players a limited but versatile set of blue magic they can take into dungeons and swap as the situation requires and so forth. i think people were expecting some sort of compromise considering how Summoner turned out to be, but I guess they could always just rework summoner into a limited job and remove it from the current endgame in order to better fulfill the class fantasy.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:46
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I think people would've been more fine with "Limited Job" meaning something akin to "you can't queue for group content until you finish the solo content we've provided you to level and fill out your spell list" as opposed to "you can't queue for group content at all, ever". Eureka alone proves a significant portion of the playerbase are fine with jumping through vastly more tedious hoops to get something of far less worth than a full job class. Hell if you flavour it as a job "for experts only" you'll have people tripping over themselves to clear its content, like with the lovely mentor crowns. There will always be DF shitters. But it seems weird for SE to be concerned enough about this specific brand of DF shitter to ban it from DF for all time while they let 1k DPS people slide. Ultimately something had to give in SE's rules, and it seems it was "able to participate in most of the game" that had to go, as opposed to "We will make absolutely no guarantee of baseline competence in our playerbase".
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Nov 18, 2018 07:49
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I am 100% in favor of removing smn's at all times. Biggest group of whiners as a job by far.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:49
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FZeroRacer posted:if the core concept behind a class is 'learning poo poo from monsters' i really don't see how that's impossible to have as a full job Or just have you fight special version of mobs in job quests/those purple poo gas circles that start fights to learn abilities. It's really easy to fit into the 14 mold and all you lose out on are a few of the dumber spells like Level 5 Death or That one from 5 that just paralyzes enemies.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:51
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FZeroRacer posted:if the core concept behind a class is 'learning poo poo from monsters' i really don't see how that's impossible to have as a full job I would have honestly been quite happy with a slightly weirder magical ranged DPS that had a bunch of class quests where you learn a specific monster ability.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:53
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other people, are happier the way they said it will be can we stretch this argument out another 5 pages
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Nov 18, 2018 07:56
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Or just have you fight special version of mobs in job quests/those purple poo gas circles that start fights to learn abilities. It's really easy to fit into the 14 mold and all you lose out on are a few of the dumber spells like Level 5 Death or That one from 5 that just paralyzes enemies. I think the main contention from players is there's no guarantee people would've gone and gotten all their spells. To which I would've thought the solution would be "make them before you let them group up in DF" instead of "just ban them from grouping up in DF". But SE hates skill gates a lot apparently. Like, Ala Mhigo should've mandated the completion of at least one Lv70 job quest before letting you take the quest to allow you to queue for it.
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Nov 18, 2018 07:57
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