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Deviant posted:Scenario 66 clockwork cove is just not fun. We unanimously voted as a group to give ourselves the victory rewards and mark it off so we'd never have to return. drat, we played that one a few weeks ago and had an absolute blast. Really loved the mechanic (obv big scenario 66 spoilers): where you had to prop open the previous door by stepping on switch for the next set of rooms. Really made the decisions/discussions on when and how to maneuver your characters more intense and thoughtful. Also because the doors close when you step off the switch you can do fun stuff like crushing enemies in doors, or wounding them then closing the door and since they're already revealed watch them stand still and melt away (likewise the golems and ooze have self damaging cards, which helps). It was challenging but didn't feel unfair to us.
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Nov 18, 2018 17:23
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Guy A. Person posted:drat, we played that one a few weeks ago and had an absolute blast. It's too long for what it is. knock the last 3 rooms off and it'd be fine.
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Nov 18, 2018 17:42
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Deviant posted:It's too long for what it is. knock the last 3 rooms off and it'd be fine. Uh, knocking off the last 3 rooms is what you do. You beat the first 2 rooms normally, then you make a meticulous plan to spend a couple of turns doing just the movement necessary to pick up the treasure and trigger the end of the scenario.
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Nov 18, 2018 17:57
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Yeah, I can see maybe shortening by a single room, but the gimmick of door propping really needs that many rooms, otherwise it's basically a one and done mechanic. Also after you do it twice the third and final (at least before the scenario ending) switch also permanently opens the treasure rooms, one of which is off a previous room, which gives the added challenge of having a bunch of new rooms open and one guy needing to stay on/near that last switch in order for someone to go into a previous room to loot and then someone else diving in to end the scenario. It's definitely on the longer side of ones we've played tho. What would really be great for the game is if every scenario had like an "average time" stat at the top. We mostly play weeknights and some scenarios take us late, others are short enough that we're tempted to do another one (then inevitably end up going even later). It would be great to be able to plan that a little better.
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Nov 18, 2018 18:18
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Jimbozig posted:Uh, knocking off the last 3 rooms is what you do. You beat the first 2 rooms normally, then you make a meticulous plan to spend a couple of turns doing just the movement necessary to pick up the treasure and trigger the end of the scenario. We did that. And the conclusion we came to is that we wanted to play Mario Party instead. I consider it a successful evening.
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Nov 18, 2018 18:54
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Finally played a session with Lightning Bolts. I dunno, really didn't click for me. Like, the 'remain at half health' shtick is interesting on paper, but, I actually find it pretty dull. At full health, you're essentially a bad tank, so you don't really ever want to be at full health. I mean the 'CHARACTER' sometimes probably does for mission purposes, like it's right to, but I don't want to be, because it's not very fun to say "I'll just walk up and do an attack 2" for the first few turns, and with my group I rarely have low enough priority to actually take aggro, so, its neither fun nor very effective. Then going down to mid yourself using your life-loss stuff, I dunno, it just doesn't feel like you're getting a big win for a big cost, (except for that attack 6, and that obviously-you-take-this-one level 4 card) they just kind of feel like a hassle to get the juice out of. Then operating at mid health, at the moment is super risky, because I don't have any real tank items, but if I don't have damage items, I can't really get any payoff for going low on health, so I might as well... just be a tank? I dunno, I just feel like I'm neither one thing nor the other. Having said that, I do find that it's me that's killing everything, and obviously if that's happening I'm pretty powerful! I guess I just don't really 'feel' like I'm this awesome Berzerker screaming around spraying blood and fury, I feel more like I'm a careful calm chick, balancing a wide plank, that as long as it remains balanced will bludgeon everyone super hard, while carefully trying to avoid anyone knocking the plank over. Maybe as it goes on and I get more health, with more leeway I can be more haphazard about it. Also, I should probably take health pots so I can do that one where you go down to 1, and not immediately die afterwards, lol. Actually just typing this up (we finished playing like 4 hours ago) has me thinking about it, and actually in retrospect I didn't hate it, I just didn't gel quite as well as I thought I was going to when I opened it and first read it all last month. I do still maintain that the choices at each level are (so far, haven't looked ahead) academic, where there's one that's awesome and one that's confusingly bad? The last thing we did was level up, and level 5 was no exception. For a full picture, I'm currently rockin' the boots of +2, the hat of ignore crit, the hammer that lets you do an AoE in two spaces in front of you and a stamina pot (that we house ruled to get back only one card, what's the general consensus on this?) I'm thinking of changing the stamina pot into a health pot, as I say, but, any tips on my current items / suggested playstyle that might be more fluid? My group is Three Spears, Music Note and as of the end of that session, triforce. !Klams fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 00:03
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Remember that you can always crank the difficulty down to 0. We did that after losing scenario 26 twice in a row and it was awesome. gently caress that scenario.
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Nov 19, 2018 00:03
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Re the question about stamina potions: they are undoubtedly the single strongest items in the game, and literaly every character should have them. Whether they should be toned down is definitely a question - personally I prefer just to bump the difficulty. But then again, even playing on harder modes, we still have yet to have major problems with more than a couple of scenarios, so... maybe we should tone them down a bit? IDK.
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Nov 19, 2018 00:18
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Chris mentioned on a boardgamegeek stream that stamina potions will be nerfed in the big expansion and if you want you can play with the new rules right away. I believe you just remove the number of cards recovered by one.
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Nov 19, 2018 00:21
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Enter sadman
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It's probably worth noting that at higher levels, it's possible to have a total of 7 cards recovered by potions and equivalents, and that's without considering that you can get items that get them back again to get you further. With a big handsize class that can be enough to go for an entire scenario, even a quite long one, without resting at all and using your single best pair of cards four times. Which is nuts. So yeah, i can definitely see nerfing them.
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Nov 19, 2018 00:24
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saihttam posted:Chris mentioned on a boardgamegeek stream that stamina potions will be nerfed in the big expansion and if you want you can play with the new rules right away. I believe you just remove the number of cards recovered by one. yeah, I can absolutely see that.
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Nov 19, 2018 00:26
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saihttam posted:Chris mentioned on a boardgamegeek stream that stamina potions will be nerfed in the big expansion and if you want you can play with the new rules right away. I believe you just remove the number of cards recovered by one. Got a link?
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Nov 19, 2018 01:49
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Guy A. Person posted:drat, we played that one a few weeks ago and had an absolute blast. Yeah this was one of our first random side missions and it was amazing and the rocket boots were so fun as the Brute. My favorite bit was when we carefully planned a turn to pull a stone golem into a doorway and step off the plate to squash it, and instead the golem hooked *me* off the plate into the doorway.
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Nov 19, 2018 02:18
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!Klams posted:Finally played a session with Lightning Bolts. I had a similar unsatisfied feeling after my first session with that character, but that turned around in my second session where we had a couple of scenarios where I just threw the team on my back and carried them. It's a really, really powerful class but it does have a little bit of an adjustment period. The stuff you said later on about feel is really interesting, too, and an important lesson for game design: sometimes the obvious thing that seems like it belongs with an archetype will actually encourage the opposite style of play. In the case of lightning bolts sticking around at very low health for a few rounds requires careful and precise positioning and play, which is absolutely the opposite of feeling like a berserker. It's still a lot of fun even if it's not quite what you expect.
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Nov 19, 2018 03:44
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Jimbozig posted:I had a similar unsatisfied feeling after my first session with that character, but that turned around in my second session where we had a couple of scenarios where I just threw the team on my back and carried them. It's a really, really powerful class but it does have a little bit of an adjustment period. For the spoiler bit, there's a card that deals specifically with that issue. Another thing I've found is that the class doesn't have that many amazing loss cards that you'd want to use before the last room (except maybe the level 4 one?) and a decent hand size so losing a card or two to damage is usually fine. Play it like you intend to exhaust in the last room after going all out and not having any cards or hp left. It's a bit of a change of pace from other classes but it can be fun! Also make sure you get the invis cloak
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Nov 19, 2018 03:49
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So a question about enhancements. The rules state that the maximum number of enhanced cards that a class can have is limited to the Prosperity Level of Gloomhaven. (i.e. At Prosperity 4, no more than four cards owned by a single class can be enhanced) Is there a rationale for this rule beyond forcing the player to be a little more discerning about which ability cards they choose to enhance? Only asking because I have a player who keeps floating the idea that we should "house rule" that you can enhance as many cards as you can afford to buy them for. I'm inclined to play with the rules-as-written because my instinct is to assume that this rule is in place for a reason, but I just wanted to check with some fellow players and get a firmer grounding about what that rationale could be. (For the record, I'm the DM for this same player in a weekly D&D game and he has a bit of a habit of requesting "house rules" any time he feels at all restricted by the game system. )
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Nov 19, 2018 05:22
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There are a few different reasons for that rule. For one thing it's really easy to enhance in . . .less than optimal .. ways and later players playing the class can't over-write or remove those enhancements, they're *permanent*. So if some dude goes through and (for example) adds "generate Air element" to every Spellweaver class enhancement slot, later players can't change those enhancements to something more useful, they're stuck with them. It's also a matter of power balance and scaling. Enhancements can be really powerful and a class with lots of enhanced cards is dramatically better than one without and can really throw the game balance around.
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Nov 19, 2018 05:30
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I imagine it's so you can't just keep playing the same class over and stack enhancements early on.
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Nov 19, 2018 05:43
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Thanks, I figured it had something to do with game balance, but wanted some extra input.
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Nov 19, 2018 05:43
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And remember, it's cards, but you can enhance top and bottom separately without paying the extra 75g per previous enhancement tax.
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Nov 19, 2018 13:18
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I'd add, there's another reason I can think of not to just allow any amount but it's sort of kind of a bit spoilery. There is a retirement quest thingie that requires you to have a certain amount of enhancements, so it would obviously massively change the barrier to entry for that. Thanks for the notes about lightning bolts, all interesting stuff, especially hearing that it clicked on the second run for you JimboZig, I'm really relieved to hear that. My new retirement goal is another really hard one, so figure I'm stuck with bolty for a while yet. Miftan: Invis cloak. What the gently caress. That's so obvious now you've said it! I was thinking like, I need to take the hits because my team is squishy, but actually, there are single turns where I'm the squishiest possible thing in the entire game FOR EXACTLY ONE TURN and then back to a double hard bastard, invis cloak is the perfect antidote to that! GRANDE!
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Nov 19, 2018 13:31
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!Klams posted:I'd add, there's another reason I can think of not to just allow any amount but it's sort of kind of a bit spoilery. There is a retirement quest thingie that requires you to have a certain amount of enhancements, so it would obviously massively change the barrier to entry for that. No prob. Another thought I had but I'm not sure is legal is (enhancement spoiler) enhancing invis on to a card?
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Nov 19, 2018 13:35
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No, that's not one of the options.
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Nov 19, 2018 13:37
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thespaceinvader posted:No, that's not one of the options. Ah, my bad. Now that you've answered I remember our rules guy saying that to me ages ago.
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Nov 19, 2018 13:40
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Miftan posted:Ah, my bad. Now that you've answered I remember our rules guy saying that to me ages ago. Emhanements:non-loss no-cost invisibility being available would just snap the game over its knee. Literally you could enhance the x cheapest cards, where x is your handsize, and autowin everything, because nothing could ever attack you unless it got you in the opening round before you had your turn. TTBOMK there's exactly one instance of non-loss no-cost Invisible in the game, and that's already pretty bent.
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Nov 19, 2018 13:47
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thespaceinvader posted:Emhanements:non-loss no-cost invisibility being available would just snap the game over its knee. Literally you could enhance the x cheapest cards, where x is your handsize, and autowin everything, because nothing could ever attack you unless it got you in the opening round before you had your turn. TTBOMK there's exactly one instance of non-loss no-cost Invisible in the game, and that's already pretty bent. Well we've been playing with eclipse+lightning bolts spoiler and eclipse is ridiculous so you're probably right! I think the best options for lightning bolts are invis cloak into the middle with flurry of axes, then use the bottom next turn to not-die 3 times.
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Nov 19, 2018 13:55
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Scoundrel and Mindthief both have non-loss no setup invisibility, and several locked classes do too. You really notice the difference between Into the Night (which just gives invisibility) and the cards that have move or attack actions as well etc. The former is good, the latter is ridiculous.
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Nov 19, 2018 14:18
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!Klams posted:I'd add, there's another reason I can think of not to just allow any amount but it's sort of kind of a bit spoilery. There is a retirement quest thingie that requires you to have a certain amount of enhancements, so it would obviously massively change the barrier to entry for that. For Lightning Bolt I'll run in, pop something like Flurry of Axes or Resolute Stand + Long Spear and use the invisibility cloak, and on the next turn if I haven't set up Defiance of Death I'll use that in the bottom action and just use a ranged attack on my top action if there is nobody nearby. My first couple scenarios I tried the tanky DPS Gripeaway build and I just felt like a bad Brute, but as soon as I embraced being at below half health and using cards like Blood Pact it started being a lot more fun. You're essentially squishier than the Mindthief, so you really gotta finesse it.
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Nov 19, 2018 16:47
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Got a link? https://www.twitch.tv/videos/336422237 Skip to 33 minutes in
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Nov 19, 2018 17:48
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Lightning bolts: Blood Pact bottom is your best card, especially with anything that multiattacks (Cauterize and Break the Chains become amazing)
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Nov 19, 2018 19:53
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Trasson posted:Lightning bolts: Blood Pact bottom is your best card, especially with anything that multiattacks (Cauterize and Break the Chains become amazing) Lightning Bolts: The only time I've played that action was to cram in as much experience as possible at the end of a scenario we won handily, so I immediately moved it to the lost pile after playing it. Self wounding, which stacks with regular wounding, seems really bad for a class that is always trying to thread the HP needle.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:30
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Trasson posted:Lightning bolts: Blood Pact bottom is your best card, especially with anything that multiattacks (Cauterize and Break the Chains become amazing) Interesting, I never brought this card but I also followed Gripeaway's reddit guide which I'm still not sure if I liked. I ended up retiring at level 6. The class was the slowest to level of any class we've played and that's all but 5. Might have been more fun to just go reckless and take tons of damage and risks with losses.
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Nov 20, 2018 01:03
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KingKapalone posted:Interesting, I never brought this card but I also followed Gripeaway's reddit guide which I'm still not sure if I liked. I ended up retiring at level 6. The class was the slowest to level of any class we've played and that's all but 5. Might have been more fun to just go reckless and take tons of damage and risks with losses. Lightning bolt spoilers continue: I REALLY feel like the XP is balanced entirely around glass hammer. I basically get all my xp from crits on that.
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Nov 20, 2018 02:28
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!Klams posted:Lightning bolt spoilers continue: I REALLY feel like the XP is balanced entirely around glass hammer. I basically get all my xp from crits on that. Same but with Resolute Stand. Every time I can pick from the layabout battle goal though it's pretty much 2 free check marks.
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Nov 20, 2018 07:09
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Reik posted:Lightning Bolts: The only time I've played that action was to cram in as much experience as possible at the end of a scenario we won handily, so I immediately moved it to the lost pile after playing it. Self wounding, which stacks with regular wounding, seems really bad for a class that is always trying to thread the HP needle. There's the trick. Don't thread that HP needle. +1 to everything ever is better than most of the boosts you get for being under half HP. Blood Pact/Break the Chains followed by Shiny Distraction/Devil's Horns (or Burning Hatred) is how I opened a whole bunch of scenarios until retirement.
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Nov 20, 2018 09:15
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Scenario 33 & 34 spoilers So, I know you can do scenario 34 first and then do scenario 33, but if you kill the Drake you lose access to the city and road events from the Drake Aided achievement. What choices did you guys make, Drake Slain or Drake Aided? It seems like you're just trading the end of scenario 34 rewards for the two events being added?
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Nov 20, 2018 17:08
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The event rewards are comparable in value, but I think it's a better deal to do #34 than it is to hit the events Also I'd rather do a scenario than have a couple events in the deck, especially a boss fight!
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Nov 20, 2018 17:19
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SynthesisAlpha posted:The event rewards are comparable in value, but I think it's a better deal to do #34 than it is to hit the events We were going to do it on casual mode if we went that way.
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Nov 20, 2018 17:23
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Reik posted:We were going to do it on casual mode if we went that way. We actually had the necessary achievements already so we got the Drake aided, not realizing it's technically optional. After we hit both events we went and did scenario 34 anyway. We counted it as campaign mode because who says we can't go back after being friends and decide to kill him for his loot? I also like the idea of him sending you on a quest and you pull the macguffin out of your pocket right when he asks for it
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Nov 20, 2018 17:37
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Reik posted:Scenario 33 & 34 spoilers We chose to do Drake Aided but it was incredibly anticlimactic. I can't help but feel the option was added in late or was unfinished. There isn't a strong story-related reason to help the Drake, the scenario you unlock isn't unique to the storyline, and you could "finish" the storyline without even realising you'd done so.
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Nov 20, 2018 21:15
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