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Casey Finnigan posted:Who gives a poo poo. There was still a major foreign interference effort by a pro-fascist state. I voted for Bernie in the primaries too but its been nearly three years. You can stop clutching your loving pearls about Hillary now Hillary and Hillary-lites are still not giving it up though.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:34
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Condiv posted:if i saw people being anti-state sponsored influence of elections i would care a lot more. however people are hyperfocused on russia and it smells too much like red scare 2.0 for me .....uh, this is purposefully dense, since damaging US Geopolitical Influence was a openly stated goal by Putin for ages, and Trump directly fits the bill to do that. Also: Red Scare 2.0? The gently caress are you smoking? We're not blacklisting people for being leftists. We're openly investigating a foreign influence over the election.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:34
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eke out posted:they weren't leaks they were hacked by russian military intelligence, but the line that they were "leaks" WAS actually propagated by the aforementioned russian military intelligence i didn't say it was only memes. or did you think when i said "color-me bernie memes" i was actually saying that's all they did? also, they were leaks. i'm not sure what definition of leak you're using that discludes the release of information caused by a hack, but everyone else refers to those as leaks as well. CommieGIR posted:.....uh, this is purposefully dense, since damaging US Geopolitical Influence was a openly stated goal by Putin for ages, and Trump directly fits the bill to do that. i don't care about US geopolitical influence. it's like the bottom of the list of anything I care about. also: i didn't say we're in red scare 2.0. try to read Condiv fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 19:34
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Kerning Chameleon posted:This would actually be a massive public good, so the sooner the Internet as we know it dies a torturous death in a fire, the better. You say, as you post on the internet.  friendbot2000 posted:I am so confused by this statement. The Red Scare was a completely different tone and environment and was used as a tool to silence leftists. This is an investigation into an actual hostile action towards the United States by Russia. There is no Red Scare 2.0 It's not an unfounded claim, in the sense that there's absolutely been a current of "the American left is a tool of the Russians, anybody who questions establishment Democrats must be a Russian psyop" among #Resistance, as well as the speed with which MIC Bush-era rejects cozied up with their old liberal pals to attack Russia, but it doesn't have the institutional power that McCarthy had in the '50s, arguably because leftism in America is still weaker than it was at that time.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:35
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VitalSigns posted:Even if it did make a difference she still needed Pennsylvania or Florida to win and she didn't get those so hacked DNC modelling data definitely affected the Florida outcome. We know because one Florida Republican campaign strategist openly told us that he was pleased as hell to get it from "Guccifer 2.0" and it gave them information they were happy to have about who might be persuadable (and neglected by the assumptions that the Dems' models were making when compared to their own) was it dispositive? who knows like everything else about the 2016 hacking, it will always be impossible to say whether it determined the outcome. but we know republicans thought it was very useful to them!
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Nov 19, 2018 19:35
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DOW down 500 lol. This loving administration has been hell on my 401k but hey I got another $30 a month in my paycheck!
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Nov 19, 2018 19:35
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Lightning Knight posted:Yeah like, the fact that she campaigned a bunch in PA and still didn't win implies that her path to victory in practice was much steeper than we'd like to think in retrospect. Yeah that requires looking at the causes rather than focusing narrowly on the symptoms, and the causes implicate elites from all over the spectrum and the entire corporate sector of America. Like the ultimate cause is Bill Clinton rigging the Russian elections for an oligarch whose oligarch buddies were buddies with Clinton's corporate buddies, and those oligarchs repaid the favor by rigging the American election against Bill's wife in order to put their oligarch buddy in charge here. But talking about that requires questioning the status quo and our popular thought leaders so it is forbidden.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:36
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Condiv posted:also, they were leaks. i'm not sure what definition of leak you're using that discludes the release of information caused by a hack, but everyone else refers to those as leaks as well. By a man who specifically worked with a Foriegn Country to ensure the leaks were filtered to only damage the Democrats, who openly stated that his goal was to ensure Hillary didn't win, and is currently hiding in an Embassy in England. Every single one of Wikileaks and Guccifer's leaks have been traced back to the GRU and Russia State Intelligence. At this point you are just moving the goal posts.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:36
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Does Pence swear the new Congress members in or is it a Democrat for Democrats and a Republican for republican? Pence swears all the incoming senators individually. InsertPotPun posted:https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1064551387793711104 Trump could be making a huge mistake here. Hamilton has already brought down 2 politicians.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:37
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cr0y posted:DOW down 500 lol. I haven't been looking at my 401k because it would raise my blood pressure. I lessened how much I commit to it because I cannot afford to gamble with my money right now...
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Nov 19, 2018 19:37
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Lightning Knight posted:You say, as you post on the internet. The credit system is hosed up too, but if I try to opt out of that I'll get reamed hard as well. In the short term, yes, I do have to make a deal with the devil and continue to engage with a corrupt system, but our long term goal should be to tear down the system and the need for it entirely. We don't need the Internet. We need to start finding out how to disconnect our society from it, then strangle it in a bathtub. Then stuff all the fiber optic cables in Yucca Mountain as a warning to future generations.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:37
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The blue wave happened in large part because progressive Dems campaigned on issues like "fix healthcare and climate change and education and stuff" with a bit of "Trump c'mon seriously" and wisely left Russia rhetoric to "let Mueller do his job" so any of these people arguing that policy should come second to Russia investigation can fuuuccckkk ooooffff. It's not like they're mutually exclusive either, we're going to have House investigations out the wazoo paired with hopefully progressive policy bills.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:37
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friendbot2000 posted:I am so confused by this statement. The Red Scare was a completely different tone and environment and was used as a tool to silence leftists. This is an investigation into an actual hostile action towards the United States by Russia. There is no Red Scare 2.0 Do I need to post liberalsaccusingbernieofbeingrussian.jpg and liberalsaccusingocasiocortezofservingputin.jpg or should I just quote the people accusing other posters of being Russian plants or
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Nov 19, 2018 19:38
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Kerning Chameleon posted:The credit system is hosed up too, but if I try to opt out of that I'll get reamed hard as well. In the short term, yes, I do have to make a deal with the devil and continue to engage with a corrupt system, but our long term goal should be to tear down the system and the need for it entirely. Cool, dude. Are there any people or objects that exist that you don't want to destroy?
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Nov 19, 2018 19:38
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Kerning Chameleon posted:We don't need the Internet. We need to start finding out how to disconnect our society from it, then strangle it in a bathtub. Then stuff all the fiber optic cables in Yucca Mountain as a warning to future generations. They'd just get their stupid over the airwaves then, don't be dense. Fox News would still be around and your racist uncle would still spew racism every Thanksgiving.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:39
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twice burned ice posted:Broke: Foreign election interference is something we should investigate and look to prevent recall: Hillary Clinton called Donald Trump a puppet of Russia, to his face, in a nationally televised debate, and it landed with all the stopping power of a wet fart. remember his response? "No puppet, you're the puppet?" to which the good liberal had no better response than "hey look all those donations to the Clinton Foundation were -legal- ways of buying influence?" this entire angle is a total political dead end. you know it. the people pushing it know it. the people you are trying to sell it on know it. nobody but the most brain-poisoned technocrats can find it in their hearts to be upset someone bought influence not using the proper channels. investigate donald trump to cause pain to donald trump, because gently caress that guy. nobody, anywhere, buys for a goddamn second the people happily cashing checks from Mohammed Bin Sawing WaPo Columnists Arms Off are super concerned about foreign interference in our affairs.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:39
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CommieGIR posted:By a man who specifically worked with a Foriegn Country to ensure the leaks were filtered to only damage the Democrats, who openly stated that his goal was to ensure Hillary didn't win, and is currently hiding in an Embassy in England. not really. i never denied any of that stuff. i just said that the leaks weren't a deciding factor in the election.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:39
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VitalSigns posted:Do I need to post liberalsaccusingbernieofbeingrussian.jpg and liberalsaccusingocasiocortezofservingputin.jpg or should I just quote the people accusing other posters of being Russian plants or 
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Nov 19, 2018 19:39
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah that requires looking at the causes rather than focusing narrowly on the symptoms, and the causes implicate elites from all over the spectrum and the entire corporate sector of America. I don't agree with this because it assumes the biggest factor in Trump's victory was the Russian interference, which I think is a huge reach. Arguably the biggest thing that impacted the 2016 election was the American media essentially granting Trump billions of dollars of free advertising so that his hype machine became self-sustaining. Edit: also emailgate. gently caress emailgate lmao.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:39
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CommieGIR posted:By a man who specifically worked with a Foriegn Country to ensure the leaks were filtered to only damage the Democrats, who openly stated that his goal was to ensure Hillary didn't win, and is currently hiding in an Embassy in England. None of that change the fact that they were leaks and they exposed the dirty side of DNC.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:40
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cr0y posted:DOW down 500 lol. I mean I'm sure it will be, but the S&P is up compared to inauguration day so unless you sunk it all into soybean futures or bitcoin or something your 401k has grown under Trump (for now)
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Nov 19, 2018 19:40
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Condiv posted:i didn't say it was only memes. or did you think when i said "color-me bernie memes" i was actually saying that's all they did? hmmm well you said quote:i really don't care about the russia stuff cause no-one has yet to make a convincing case that color-me bernie memes changed the trajectory of the election so it's strange that you would only include the most minor element of russian interference as the only thing that matters to you? Condiv posted:also, they were leaks. i'm not sure what definition of leak you're using that discludes the release of information caused by a hack, but everyone else refers to those as leaks as well. my bad, the thing is, you said "DNC leaks" which is the exact phrase that the entire campaign to claim it was Seth Rich all along centered around. there's even a hashtag you can look at right now that is 90% seth rich content https://twitter.com/gerfingerpoken/status/1060665781023838208
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Nov 19, 2018 19:40
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CommieGIR posted:They'd just get their stupid over the airwaves then, don't be dense. Fox News would still be around and your racist uncle would still spew racism every Thanksgiving. Shoot your television. Then melt down the broadcast towers for the iron.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:40
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fspades posted:None of that change the fact that they were leaks and they exposed the dirty side of DNC. And were also heavily edited to make them far more insidious than they were. https://www.businessinsider.com/guccifer-2-0-dnc-document-russia-hillary-clinton-2017-11
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Nov 19, 2018 19:41
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Literally a week after the election the washington post started putting independent left media like the black agenda report on the russian sponsored list since we were just discussing Assange Bad, i find this article amusingly topical: https://www.blackagendareport.com/us-intel-will-bring-assange-us-chains quote:Julian Assange, a hero in the struggle against imperial wars and the lies that states tell to justify them, is in mortal danger. i was going to just post excerpts but honestly i enjoy the whole darn thing in light of recent discussion i make no comment on and have no strong opinion on BAR as a whole Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 19:42
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:this entire angle is a total political dead end. you know it. the people pushing it know it. the people you are trying to sell it on know it. nobody but the most brain-poisoned technocrats can find it in their hearts to be upset someone bought influence not using the proper channels. It's been my experience that the people really pushing this stuff don't know it. If they make it all about Russia's Evil Interference they don't need to reckon with the fact that America is not some bastion of lib Democracy but has devolved into a rotten failing empire that is basically lurching along on the petrodollar. Same way that the 2008 GOP had to make it about the evil Muslim Usurper because they couldn't process that America didn't care if somebody had a funny name or was black, they just wanted the problems fixed (which didn't happen)
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Nov 19, 2018 19:42
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my bony fealty posted:The blue wave happened in large part because progressive Dems campaigned on issues like "fix healthcare and climate change and education and stuff" with a bit of "Trump c'mon seriously" and wisely left Russia rhetoric to "let Mueller do his job" so any of these people arguing that policy should come second to Russia investigation can fuuuccckkk ooooffff. It's not like they're mutually exclusive either, we're going to have House investigations out the wazoo paired with hopefully progressive policy bills. I personally attribute all the gains made by democrats in suburban districts to trump blowing up the SALT deduction. HENRYs and other assorted rich people absolutely hated that and it definitely sealed the deal for the GOP in IL-14 and other wealthy areas outside major cities. GreyjoyBastard posted:since we were just discussing Assange Bad, i find this article amusingly topical: I remember when D&D liberals liked Assange for collateral murder and all the wikileaks exposes of the Bush administration.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:42
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Lightning Knight posted:I don't agree with this because it assumes the biggest factor in Trump's victory was the Russian interference, which I think is a huge reach. Arguably the biggest thing that impacted the 2016 election was the American media essentially granting Trump billions of dollars of free advertising so that his hype machine became self-sustaining. i agree that the fbi signalling that they were reopening the investigation into hillary clinton like a week before the election had a lot more to do with her loss than russia still pissed at comey about that
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Nov 19, 2018 19:42
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eke out posted:hacked DNC modelling data definitely affected the Florida outcome. We know because one Florida Republican campaign strategist openly told us that he was pleased as hell to get it from "Guccifer 2.0" and it gave them information they were happy to have about who might be persuadable (and neglected by the assumptions that the Dems' models were making when compared to their own) It also rhetorically tied together "Democrats" and "getting hacked" at the same time that the media was incessantly prattling on about Hillary's email server and the possibility of classified information being hacked from it.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:42
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Lightning Knight posted:I don't agree with this because it assumes the biggest factor in Trump's victory was the Russian interference, which I think is a huge reach. Arguably the biggest thing that impacted the 2016 election was the American media essentially granting Trump billions of dollars of free advertising so that his hype machine became self-sustaining. Yea that's a good point. Bill Clinton was ultimately the cause of Russia helping Trump, and the election was so close anything could have swung it including Russia, but you're right it wasn't the ultimate cause of her defeat because a whole raft of things demonstrably had a larger impact than the DNC hacking, and the hacking only worked because it was so close due to media helping Trump/Clinton's own incompetence/also her record of corruption and war crimes/crippling losses under Obama/Obama turning the DNC into a grift operation/Comey divebombing her at the last second/Obama nominating a loving Republican partisan to head the FBI in the first goddamn place/Loretta Lynch violating ethics rules and having to recuse herself from the email investigation/etc VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Nov 19, 2018 |
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Nov 19, 2018 19:42
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cr0y posted:DOW down 500 lol. Someone correct me if I'm being a dumb dumb, but unless you're planning on retiring soon does it really matter how your 401k is doing in the grand scheme? Unless we're laughing at Boomers who are about to cash out and are seeing red
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Nov 19, 2018 19:43
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:Mohammed Bin Sawing WaPo Columnists Arms Off You are on fire this morning.  Condiv posted:i agree that the fbi signalling that they were reopening the investigation into hillary clinton like a week before the election had a lot more to do with her loss than russia Absolutely, the fact that anybody who supported Hillary in 2016 has even one good thing about James Comey is a travesty, he should be shamed out of public life for throwing the election to Trump lmao.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:43
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friendbot2000 posted:I haven't been looking at my 401k because it would raise my blood pressure. I lessened how much I commit to it because I cannot afford to gamble with my money right now... If your retirement is decades away and your 401k is made of fairly diversified funds (as opposed to, say, company stock) that's pretty much the opposite of what you should be doing. Blitz7x posted:Someone correct me if I'm being a dumb dumb, but unless you're planning on retiring soon does it really matter how your 401k is doing in the grand scheme? Unless we're laughing at Boomers who are about to cash out and are seeing red If you're under 50 you should be happy.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:45
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:
i, for one, can credibly claim to have started getting seriously worried about Assange ruining Wikileaks during the Manning reveals it is possible - laudable, in fact - to think that Wikileaks was good and is now questionable at best, and to blame Julian Assange for destroying a good thing
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Nov 19, 2018 19:46
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eke out posted:hmmm well you said no, not really. i'm dismissive of the russia stuff, so i use the silliest example of the russia stuff to signal that dismissiveness. that doesn't mean I think that russia only posted bernie memes, or only memes, or only posted on facebook, or whatever. that's a claim you constructed out of whole cloth so that you could call me a liar. quote:my bad, the thing is, you said "DNC leaks" which is the exact phrase that the entire campaign to claim it was Seth Rich all along centered around. there's even a hashtag you can look at right now that is 90% seth rich content yeah, no way i could say "DNC leaks" without believing that seth rich was murdered by DWS or something. it's not as if putting "DNC" and "leaks" together to refer to the leak of emails from the DNC could ever occur to someone outside of that specific conspiracy theory bubble 
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Nov 19, 2018 19:47
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TheScott2K posted:If your retirement is decades away and your 401k is made of fairly diversified funds (as opposed to, say, company stock) that's pretty much the opposite of what you should be doing. On the other hand if the fundamental problems of this country were fixed the stock market will never be this high again, so...(it's high because it's a vehicle for the wealthy, who have used their hoarded wealth to massively inflate it)
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Nov 19, 2018 19:47
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"Save us big strong prosecutor daddy!" is a real bad look. The justice system in America is a joke and anyone who thinks it will improve anything is a dope. Trump should be opposed because he is awful, not because he took money from the wrong oligarchs.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:49
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:On the other hand if the fundamental problems of this country were fixed the stock market will never be this high again, so...(it's high because it's a vehicle for the wealthy, who have used their hoarded wealth to massively inflate it) I believe America is quite capable of hoarding wealth at the top while also providing a dignified life for all. There's just that much money.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:49
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GreyjoyBastard posted:i, for one, can credibly claim to have started getting seriously worried about Assange ruining Wikileaks during the Manning reveals wikileaks went down before Assange though, when one of the members got bought out by BoA and deleted everything they had, if I'm remembering that correctly.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:49
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TheScott2K posted:I believe America is quite capable of hoarding wealth at the top while also providing a dignified life for all. I'm not sure how to parse this statement, but even if I accepted it at face value, it's not just Americans who deserve a dignified life, and providing a dignified life to everyone on Earth probably means we can't have rich people.
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Nov 19, 2018 19:50
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