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Man, I should have taken all the "this gets dark" warnings more seriously. Also - this is amazingly good.
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Nov 18, 2018 21:35
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Anyone who has not clicked on Primrose’s theme needs to. It’s really good.
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Nov 19, 2018 00:50
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Olberic needs to be the next one to join us.
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Nov 19, 2018 06:21
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I wonder if Tressa is enjoying her first taste of the wider world!
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Nov 19, 2018 09:52
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I can't decide what to make of Primrose's story, at least so far. I hope I'm not opening too many cans of worms if I try to analyse it? When people were saying it was dark and had problematic elements, I was expecting something worse than this. Helgenish is truly vile, but the game knows it and refuses to be even remotely sympathetic to him, and while he's a bit over the top in places, he's an accurate if extreme portrayal of a certain kind of misogynist (we all at least know of them) and whoever wrote his dialogue definitely knew how emotional abuse and manipulation work. The final confrontation here is a case study in how quickly an abuser can withdraw their supposed praise and fondness, and weaponise it to claim betrayal and play the victim (DARVO), and honestly I thought it was quite well done. Yusufa was definitely stuffed into the fridge, but it doesn't bother me as much as many cases of fridging because (1) it's not unrealistic given the kind of story they're telling and (2) at least it's for the benefit of another woman's storyline, rather than a man's. At the same time, it's barely even subtext that Primrose consented to the mistreatment (until she decided not to) because she was undercover and had a larger goal. I can't decide if I actually like this as a story (as characterisation it goes a long way to show how desperate she is to catch the people she's after), or if the implication is "Primrose is badass and Not Like Other Girls (whether because of social class or just generalised badassery) and that's why she can escape when she wants". That is not a good underlying message. I don't want to have to read it that way, but I suppose a more charitable reading could be "she was overconfident (perhaps because of class privilege and/or combat ability) and it was much more close-run than she expected". I have to admit, though, I find it really quite weird that the game will make barely-at-all-veiled references to sexual and physical abuse, but felt the need to censor "go gently caress yourself" when the moment honestly deserved it. If that was really what made the difference in terms of ratings, it definitely highlights how misplaced our societal priorities (vis-a-vis criteria for game/film ratings) are. On a lighter note, I have to admit that I quite enjoyed watching the Helgenish fight, and having Cyrus shout "Now the true lesson begins!" before lighting him on fire. In the context of an abusive man trying to teach his victims to know their place (literally, his move is called that), that was almost too apt.
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Nov 19, 2018 16:10
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Um, I just came in to say that I approve of how often this game sends you to the bar, but that feels strangely inadequate all of a sudden
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Nov 19, 2018 16:39
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I will vote Alfyn until we have adorable country healboy.
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Nov 19, 2018 20:13
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Explopyro posted:At the same time, it's barely even subtext that Primrose consented to the mistreatment (until she decided not to) because she was undercover and had a larger goal. I can't decide if I actually like this as a story (as characterisation it goes a long way to show how desperate she is to catch the people she's after), or if the implication is "Primrose is badass and Not Like Other Girls (whether because of social class or just generalised badassery) and that's why she can escape when she wants". That is not a good underlying message. I don't want to have to read it that way, but I suppose a more charitable reading could be "she was overconfident (perhaps because of class privilege and/or combat ability) and it was much more close-run than she expected". Both interpretations are certainly valid although I'd say the implications lean more on the former than the latter. Mostly because the methods Primrose took (dancing for Helgenish) reinforced her motivation for taking them (she enjoyed dancing for/with her father) which you can extrapolate as evidence of her sheer determination to accomplish finding the Crow-marked Men. The latter interpretation I would put down as a consequence of narration and on what isn't said or reinforced outside of gameplay for Primrose. The narration part is the 'what seperates Primrose from other girls: this is Primrose's story, not Other Girl's story' and her ability in combat hasn't had any reinforcement outside of gameplay aside from the implication that it took awhile for Primrose to get to Helgenish's place. Thus you can theorize that she spent time living a hard and not completely legitimate life (her only weapon choice being a Dagger feeding into that.) As for the censorship bit, you're missing the forest for the trees. All of the veiled references, all of the words in the other chapters paint the world as using a certain language. The specific word choice used (at least in english, I don't know about other translations) follows the language of the world. It makes those references and insults more interesting to read/hear because even at it's most appropriate, 'gently caress' is horrendously overused. Bonus: 'go pleasure yourself' has dynamic connotations to it (you can attribute anger, sarcasm, contempt etc. to it) while it's cruder translations is generally just used in anger or outrage (short syllable usage does that.) Also what separates some esrb ratings from others is literally explicit mention or depiction of mature themes. That's how they're supposed to work. This isn't the first game with veiled sexual references Square Enix has done to get a Teen Rating and it's not even the 'worst' (pirates in FFXIV are a horny bunch, but all wenches are fully dressed and the horniness is equal-opportunity given what the all-female pirate crew says as they hang around their pirate bistro.)
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Nov 19, 2018 23:58
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Explopyro posted:having Cyrus shout "Now the true lesson begins!" before lighting him on fire.
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Nov 20, 2018 00:47
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Yeah, in context "Go pleasure yourself" gets across the implication of "...because I'm not going to do it any more" more effectively than "Go gently caress yourself" would have, since the latter is just a stock phrase at this point.
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Nov 20, 2018 01:00
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  Music: Sunshade, City of Pleasures  Today we'll explore the town of Sunshade. First off, the NPC at the entr- Oh wait, he's still with us.   Just press Y to dismiss a NPC.  If you ever end up looking for a NPC for a quest and can't find them, make sure you don't have them hanging out at the tavern with Primrose or Ophilia.   Anyway, there's a reason he was one of the stronger options available to us. His age and backstory show why he's not as powerful as he used to be, but he's still got a bit of strength to him.   A nice accessory for Tressa.   The last time I met him, I got the best pepper and quatrait, too... Such is the way of the cook.  Basic herbs, but I thought the dialogue worth including.   Not all stories have happy endings. Especially in Sunshade.   The item in question is a Silver-filled Pouch worth a whopping 8000 leaves. Good find!   The Stimulating Earring gives +10SP and won't blow through my cash reserves like that Falcon Dagger would.   And yet, I can't help but feel that someone out there is calling to me. Someone who needs me... You may want to keep this in the back of your mind.  There are accessories to reduce elemental damage. I'm not sure how much they reduce, to be honest. I'm not a big fan anyway since there's so many better accessory options down the line.    Of course the woman with the poor eyesight has an accessory to help her see. The question becomes, "Would you steal it?"   Even the most flavorless dishes can be imbued with the flavorful tastes of the southern lands. They are wondrous spices! The Sunlands sure like their dancers and spices!  Again, this seems like it might be good to have for later.  Some characters have some interesting skills. Apparently this one gives the entire party 40SP.   I've actually been lucky with this area, this was the first guy I failed a Scrutinize check with.   Of course, his hidden item is in the dancers' dormatory. I wonder how it got there...  Also some vendor fodder items are...interesting.  Here's the main attraction of Sunshade, though now without its main attraction.   On the bright side, it seems the person that replaced Helgenish is a much better human being, so that's nice.  In addition to Refreshing Jam, there's a Revitalizing Jam that also gives max BP in addition to healing HP and SP to full. Very useful, and very expensive!  Mental Augmentation gives three turns of an ElemAtt/ElemDef buff to the entire party. Actually decent for our party!   Keep trying, friend.  At least he has nuts.   Oops.  Turns out this tavern wench is actually a skilled badass and she doubles as a security guard.   And her hidden item is pretty freaking awesome to boot. Not only is it a nice PhysAtk upgrade, but it gives a nice boost to ElemAtk too, which will certainly work well with Tressa's wind skills!  And the woman has a nice bow attack to boot.   Hopefully he doesn't spend all his reward on women and wine...  Something Therion might want to remember...   All you need for the mills to keep running is a bit of wind. They're surely one of man's greatest inventions. Wispermill is the Chapter 4 town of the Flatlands.  The guy's a decent mage to boot.    Welp.  Glad to know more about this man's sexual history.    Sounds like a lovely fellow! Glad we could get some tips from him, at least.   I've got nimble fingers and a forgettable face. At least, that's what me mates tell me. The short of it is, I've the makings of a top thief. Few can achieve such unremarkability. That's it for Sunshade! Next time we may show off another Side Story before we head off to recruit our next companion, who shall be...  ...Olberic, by a good margin! Back to Cobblestone soon enough!
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Nov 20, 2018 01:09
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Primrose can seduce women as well?
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Nov 20, 2018 01:18
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Primrose can seduce women as well? She can Allure a lot of NPCs. I'm pretty sure that outside of specific story NPCs, Primrose and Ophilia share the same NPC pool they can recruit from, which is the majority of non-child NPCs in the game. Generally the few adults you can't recruit are generally guarding the entrance to a building, which means you need Olberic or H'aanit to come in and beat them up to get entrance. And of course they'll have separate quotes depending on whether they join the kind priestess and the sexy dancer.
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Nov 20, 2018 01:21
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Mega64 posted:You may want to keep this in the back of your mind. Forefront, I've got enough stupid plot coupons and information and been looking for her. Off I go to ***** (watch me be wrong about which quest this is....) quote:The question becomes, "Would you steal it?" Since I chose Therion start, I stole it before checking in on her actual status. Whoops.
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Nov 20, 2018 01:39
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Primrose can seduce women as well? Helgaleth is probably not picky on the clients his girls bring in to waste money at his bar. It might also work secondarily as a recruitment tool to get more dancers since he seems to run through them quickly what with his tempt and pension of beating them to half death and then throwing them away
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Nov 20, 2018 01:59
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I'm sorry to keep talking about last update but I wanted to respond to a couple of points, and I can't think of much to say about this particular one (sorry, Mega64).EponymousMrYar posted:As for the censorship bit, you're missing the forest for the trees. All of the veiled references, all of the words in the other chapters paint the world as using a certain language. The specific word choice used (at least in english, I don't know about other translations) follows the language of the world. It makes those references and insults more interesting to read/hear because even at it's most appropriate, 'gently caress' is horrendously overused. Bonus: 'go pleasure yourself' has dynamic connotations to it (you can attribute anger, sarcasm, contempt etc. to it) while it's cruder translations is generally just used in anger or outrage (short syllable usage does that.) Thuryl posted:Yeah, in context "Go pleasure yourself" gets across the implication of "...because I'm not going to do it any more" more effectively than "Go gently caress yourself" would have, since the latter is just a stock phrase at this point. These are fair points, and I think I'd have had much less issue with the line if it had been read as "Go pleasure yourself" (heavy emphasis on self), but either the voice actor didn't agree or she flubbed it (her emphasis was on "pleasure", which I think really takes the sting out of the line, whereas if you kept her emphasis, "gently caress" would have had more of the needed impact). If the emphasis were on "self", both lines would probably work about equally well, so maybe I misaimed the criticism by calling it censorship. Overall the voicework in this game has been very good, but I think the direction for this specific line was a mistake. EponymousMrYar posted:Also what separates some esrb ratings from others is literally explicit mention or depiction of mature themes. That's how they're supposed to work. The point I was trying to make is that that standard can be pretty hosed up, and this game is good evidence of where the guideline breaks down; I was trying to talk more about "ought" than "is" but I could've been clearer. This plotline deserves an explicit warning for sexual and emotional abuse, manipulation and gaslighting. There isn't an ESRB rating that would convey that, because ratings organisations tend to be more focused on "is there sex", "is there violence", "is there foul language" and so on rather than figuring out which pieces or which intersections of them might be particularly troublesome, unsettling, or outright triggering to people.
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Nov 20, 2018 02:41
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Explopyro posted:
She basically told him to go suck his own dick. How would the infliction on "pleasure" be read any other way? Explopyro posted:This plotline deserves an explicit warning for sexual and emotional abuse, manipulation and gaslighting. There isn't an ESRB rating that would convey that, because ratings organisations tend to be more focused on "is there sex", "is there violence", "is there foul language" and so on rather than figuring out which pieces or which intersections of them might be particularly troublesome, unsettling, or outright triggering to people. This plotline shows exactly the level that a person who is completely consumed by vengeance will act, It's spelled out all over the entire act and even Prim's summery. she will endure any and all acts, glorious or demeaning if it means she can get back at the men who ruined her life. Calling it triggering means people should just stop consuming any media above tween romance.
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Nov 20, 2018 03:23
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cdyoung posted:This plotline shows exactly the level that a person who is completely consumed by vengeance will act, It's spelled out all over the entire act and even Prim's summery. she will endure any and all acts, glorious or demeaning if it means she can get back at the men who ruined her life. Calling it triggering means people should just stop consuming any media above tween romance. That is... not what triggering means. At all. Trigger warnings serve the same purpose as things like ESRB ratings are meant to do: to let people know what kind of troubling content a thing has so they can make an informed decision about whether or not to engage with it, or to mentally prepare themselves if it's going to have a thing that makes them uncomfortable or bring up memories of trauma (to oversimplify what a psychological trigger is). Even many people with past trauma don't want to ignore or avoid media with their triggers in it, they just don't want to be surprised by it and caught off guard. Calling for a trigger warning isn't saying "nobody should read this", it's saying "people should be forewarned of what's inside, so they can make informed decisions". I liked this plotline. I thought it was handled well and decently nuanced. I said as much. Do you really think I'm saying people shouldn't be exposed to it? And I'm going to stop talking now, because I'm taking over this thread and that's not something I want to be doing. I'm sorry.
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Nov 20, 2018 03:36
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FeyerbrandX posted:(watch me be wrong about which quest this is....) I was wrong. Well now to the back of my mind it goes, along with the other countless things I still need to resolve. Doin it all for the nuts.
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Nov 20, 2018 03:44
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Mega64 posted:And of course they'll have separate quotes depending on whether they join the kind priestess and the sexy dancer. I can just imagine a squashed bug being the quotes getting swapped for this. It was probably silly and hilarious 
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Nov 20, 2018 03:45
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Primrose can seduce women as well?
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Nov 20, 2018 15:01
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Quantum Toast posted:Even Tressa's mother is a valid target, though I've never tried it myself. Amusingly enough, if I remember correctly, Tressa's mom is easier to Allure than her dad is.
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Nov 20, 2018 16:20
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W.T. Fits posted:Amusingly enough, if I remember correctly, Tressa's mom is easier to Allure than her dad is. This mechanic is making me ask a lot of questions.
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Nov 20, 2018 16:25
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So are the power levels of recruitable NPC's usually fitting for their backstory blurbs or are they kind of randomly distributed?
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Nov 20, 2018 16:42
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PurpleXVI posted:So are the power levels of recruitable NPC's usually fitting for their backstory blurbs or are they kind of randomly distributed? A bit of both. Generally later cities will have higher level NPCs but every now and then you get the random max level NPC out of nowhere (backstory: former bandit queen). E: and within a city the relative power tends to match the backstory
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Nov 20, 2018 16:47
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Omobono posted:A bit of both. Generally later cities will have higher level NPCs but every now and then you get the random max level NPC out of nowhere (backstory: former bandit queen). So are you saying that Tressa's mom was a former bandit queen?
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Nov 20, 2018 17:07
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 Music: Sunshade, City of Pleasures  We've got another Side Story available to us now, so let's check it out!   Dancing is nothing but a sorrow... Maybe it's time I hang up my dance shoes...   As I mentioned in the past, some Side Stories have two different ways to complete them, and this happens to be one of them! For this and other such quests, I'll show off both methods. ----- METHOD ONE   The last time that I performed on stage, I danced in this very dress: my infamous star dress. It was the greatest performance of my life. I was left with no regrets. The first method to solve the quest involves this NPC.   Namely, we need to buy (or steal) her signature dress.  Then we offer it to the blue dancer.  What is this? This dress... It's beautiful! Music: Enveloped in Kindness  It looks just like the dress worn by a great dancer I used to look up to ever so much. How nostalgic to think of it now... When I first came here to this tavern, I practiced so desperately to try to dance as she did. I've been dancing so many years now, but I wonder if I ever got close to her level at all. Hehe... I suppose it is time for my last cue. Doing this, we remind the Blue Dancer of happier times, of what drove her to embrace dancing, and give her something special so that she'll remember her last dance.  In case you're curious, the rewards are always the same regardless of how you solve a quest.  I was able to dance my last dance in that dress... It is a memory I will treasure all my life. ----- METHOD TWO Music: Sunshade, City of Pleasures   I'll never be well enough to stay out for long, though. That's what I heard the doctor say... The second method involves this sickly girl.  See, capitalism does benefit the sick and dying!   But all she speaks of is the "blue dancing girl" that she saw the last time she went to the town fete. Perchance if I could find that "blue dancing girl" and have her dance for my daughter once more... The reason this girl is relevant is because the Blue Dancer is one of the few things that has brought joy in an otherwise bleak life for the poor kid.  So we'll want to bring her to the sick child.  And after a bit of convincing...   ...we do just that.  Mother! It's her! It's the blue dancing girl I saw in the town! She was the best of all the girls who were dancing! But I'm not the best we have. We have a dancer who's better than all the rest... My daughter is not a healthy child, but she admired your dancing so... If you wouldn't mind, could I perhaps ask you to dance once more for her? I think it would give her a reason to keep trying to get better. If you think my dances worthy... Then nothing would please me more. But I never stopped believing in myself. Not in a future when I would be well enough to dance.  This approach up-ends the Blue Dancer's quest a bit, putting priority on the sick child and trying to help her instead. It's a nice little twist.  Either way, the quest is resolved, and we can catch up with these characters again.  I owe that dancing girl so much... I will surely get better. And when I grow up healthy and strong, I will mount that stage for myself!The girl now has a new determination to be strong and live so that she can achieve the dreams inspired by her hero. And speaking of that hero...  I was trying to bring that girl some courage, but I feel like I was the one who gained the most from our meeting. It seems our Blue Dancer friend has also found new inspiration to live the life she always wanted. It's amazing how different the two paths are just from the simple path actions we choose to do. The rewards are always the same, but the stories go in wildly different directions. Just making our small mark in the world. Either way we take, though, that star dancer from before ends up with this dialogue:  But even if you stumble upon that stage, you must climb to your feet again and continue dancing. Words to live by.
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Nov 20, 2018 23:06
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Gaaaaaah!! 
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Nov 21, 2018 00:01
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Try as you might to resist, Blue Dancer, but sooner or later everyone falls for Primrose.theshim posted:Gaaaaaah!! Hmm?
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Nov 21, 2018 00:06
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"Once I was a great dancer, but then I started qualifying for reduced rates on my auto insurance and I knew I had to hang up my dance slippers."
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Nov 21, 2018 00:10
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Olberic's boss was insane. I have no drat clue how I didn't wipe on that one. I would've lost if Tressa didn't proc a clutch evade. Plus the boss music played for that one. You all are in for a treat when that boss video goes up.
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Nov 21, 2018 00:28
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I’m excited
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Nov 21, 2018 02:18
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I did the sick girl variation of the Blue Dancer side story; I had no idea that there was an alternate solution for that one.Mega64 posted:Olberic's boss was insane. I have no drat clue how I didn't wipe on that one. I would've lost if Tressa didn't proc a clutch evade. Some Numbers posted:I’m excited   
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Nov 21, 2018 02:38
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Since the boss battles seemed to be my most popular videos, I made them public and will be updating a playlist of them as the updates go up because why not.
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Nov 21, 2018 22:39
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theshim posted:Gaaaaaah!! I've recently picked up the History of English podcast and come to appreciate how much standardizing grammar and spelling is trying to pace around a four-way collision and suspend some of the bits back in the air, as though that's where they were supposed to be. The adjective is "loath", without the "e", but nobody's confused about what the sentence means either way. Also it's interesting to see how all these path actions behave as quest verbs!
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Nov 21, 2018 23:54
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Just waiten until we recruiten H'aanit.
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Nov 22, 2018 00:04
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Mega64 posted:Olberic's boss was insane. I have no drat clue how I didn't wipe on that one. I would've lost if Tressa didn't proc a clutch evade. Mega64 posted:Plus the boss music played for that one. You all are in for a treat when that boss video goes up. Glazius posted:I've recently picked up the History of English podcast and come to appreciate how much standardizing grammar and spelling is trying to pace around a four-way collision and suspend some of the bits back in the air, as though that's where they were supposed to be.
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Nov 22, 2018 00:13
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theshim posted:It's one of those things that irrationally angers me. Similar to people consistently using the wrong one of hoard/horde. I am mad about language and that's stupid! Lose/loose is the one that drives me up the wall.
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Nov 22, 2018 01:17
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Their they're, its not so bad.
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Nov 22, 2018 01:46
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 20:31 |
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I'm tempted to buy this game just to mess with all the NPCs in various different ways. During the fight with Helgenish, I was wondering what the Old Man was thinking, getting brought into somebody's revenge scheme...turns out that wasn't the first time somebody got him to help settle old debts.
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Nov 22, 2018 03:12
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