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I'm wildly oscillating between 'man I'm so glad we didn't end up dating that guy' and 'man it would have been hilarious to make Arist write us dating that guy'. e: update about THAT GUY on the last page
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Nov 20, 2018 20:53
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 Same, Akechi. This is good.
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Nov 20, 2018 20:57
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Leraika posted:I'm wildly oscillating between 'man I'm so glad we didn't end up dating that guy' and 'man it would have been hilarious to make Arist write us dating that guy'. there's an entire encyclopedia set worth of fanfiction to accommodate you on the latter, no worries
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Nov 20, 2018 20:57
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Arist posted:
Whoever could have expected that the guy who killed people inconvenient to him would kill someone inconvenient to him? Also, that is some SERIOUS Light Yagami face he's got going on.
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Nov 20, 2018 20:58
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Akechi having a palace would definitely make sense given he's definitely got a warped perception, although I'm not sure which of the deadly sins you could shoehorn him into. Wrath I guess? It is definitely dumb that Haru and Futaba have zero reservations about the pity party for Akechi given he murdered their parents and they know it. It also annoys me that the scene seems to imply that Akechi actually was on the cusp of being saved by the power of friendship before his insane doppelganger showed up since it really diminishes the gravity of how irredeemably broken his lot in life made him, but this is Anime so I'm not sure what else I was expecting.
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Nov 20, 2018 20:59
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Sydin posted:Akechi having a palace would definitely make sense given he's definitely got a warped perception, although I'm not sure which of the deadly sins you could shoehorn him into. Wrath I guess? I alluded to it in the previous update, but under the sins that flash in the game's opening he is "Cavum," which is a mistranslation of "Emptiness."
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Nov 20, 2018 21:01
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Sydin posted:Akechi having a palace would definitely make sense given he's definitely got a warped perception, although I'm not sure which of the deadly sins you could shoehorn him into. Wrath I guess? Wouldn't he be too young to have murdered Futuba's mom or am I missing something?
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Nov 20, 2018 21:01
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Manic_Misanthrope posted:Wouldn't he be too young to have murdered Futuba's mom or am I missing something? he’d have been fifteen it’s possible that he actually cut his teeth in the assassination business by killing Wakaba
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Nov 20, 2018 21:04
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Oxxidation posted:there's an entire encyclopedia set worth of fanfiction to accommodate you on the latter, no worries You're kidding but a lot of Persona 5 fanfiction tends to do a better job at actually dealing with the characters than the game itself. 
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Nov 20, 2018 21:05
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Those sure are some Light Yagami-level faces on Cognitive Akechi there. I was expecting it to be dumb, and P5 didn't fail to deliver. With how many rewrites the plot went through, I have to wonder if this scene was developed pretty early on and it was too late to change it later or something.
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Nov 20, 2018 21:12
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Oh no a sad theme for such a sacrifice... pfft. Please, if I know my tropes, he's going to show up at the end of the game for one last "redemption" since we didn't see him die.
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Nov 20, 2018 21:13
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Y'all seem to be conflating "sympathetic" and "redeemable". I feel bad for Akechi, he really was dealt a lovely hand. And this moment actually hit me pretty hard. But I don't think he deserved redemption. This sacrifice was, ultimately, just him entrusting his goal of "taking down Shido" to the PTs.
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Nov 20, 2018 21:15
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Nah, gently caress Akechi. He had a choice and decided to lash out in a murderous, psychopathic fashion. Most people, given a little bit of power, don't immediately go on killing rampages no matter how badly a hand they were dealt in life.
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Nov 20, 2018 21:32
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welcome to the Akechi Discourse *locks doors, swallows key* take your shoes off, stay a while
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Nov 20, 2018 21:33
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Lotta people get bad hands. Lotta people don't become a psychic serial killer. Lotta people are better than Goro Akechi.
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Nov 20, 2018 21:38
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Akechi could have been interesting if this side of him had more time to breathe and interact with the rest of your party to maybe earn some of this reaction he gets here (not to mention space out the ‘shocking reveals’) but instead he’s just a bargain version of P4’s main antagonist who barely gets any screen time after the reveal. And after the sudden flash of unearned goodwill the game forces your party to give him in the end (especially considering Akechi killed two of their loving parents, the act of which has left permanent mental scars on one of them) he can go gently caress off forever. A pretty good idea badly handled. An apt summary of Persona 5’s plot, really.
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Nov 20, 2018 21:44
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He's the pits As you see Goro Akechi
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Nov 20, 2018 21:47
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My love of the wonderful faces on Cognitive Akechi aside (seriously, I think I jumped when I saw them first time), a love I shal share by quoting this wonderful post:ApeHawk posted:Oh good, I can finally post this: ...this part is so. So. So. Sooooooooo stupid. And I hate it. So much. I just... he was so perfect, you know? Particularly toward the end when he stopped pretending- this hypocritical, towering figure, loming over the plot in ways that, admittedly, don't make a lot of narrative sense... but he was fun, dammit. He was agreeable to hate. He was my good evil boy, and then they try to pull this half assed, "redemption thing" that is, in fact, completely unearned or desired by anyone with a brain in their head.  You know, it's OK for an rear end in a top hat just to be an rear end in a top hat. You don't have to have some great stirring reason for a villain, even though a well done reason can elevate them as they do any character, but you do have to have one if they're supposed to stop being assholes, if we're meant to find them salvageable. There was nothing even partially justifying the poo poo that Akechi is implied to have done- he himself has even showed no remorse for it- and we're supposed to have this "touching scene" between characters that wanted to rip each others throats out a moment before. At least P4 didn't try to make Adachi a salvageable villain... but I hear they didn't quite stick with that either. As Ms. Ellis says: Thanks, I hate it!I'm grumpy about this sort of thing; I hear theyre trying to make the Grinch relatable again in this new Grinch adaptation. God drat it, why can't we just let our monsters be goddamn monsters?
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Nov 20, 2018 21:55
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Mr. Locke posted:Akechi could have been interesting if this side of him had more time to breathe and interact with the rest of your party to maybe earn some of this reaction he gets here (not to mention space out the ‘shocking reveals’) but instead he’s just a bargain version of P4’s main antagonist who barely gets any screen time after the reveal. And after the sudden flash of unearned goodwill the game forces your party to give him in the end (especially considering Akechi killed two of their loving parents, the act of which has left permanent mental scars on one of them) he can go gently caress off forever. Yeah my dumb pet idea for salvaging the stupidity that is the Akechi plotline would be to replace Ryuji with him, and have him be the secret ongoing mole helping Shido manipulate the PT's to accomplish his goals while also slowly learning to genuinely trust them and have second thoughts about his actions. He'd still be a mass murderer but at least there'd be some actual investment in him, and his death could be more "guy who realizes he hosed up and tragically sacrifices himself to atone" instead of "piece of poo poo gets what he deserves while sad music plays." Arist posted:I alluded to it in the previous update, but under the sins that flash in the game's opening he is "Cavum," which is a mistranslation of "Emptiness." Akechi is such a hipster his sin isn't even a real sin, nice.
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Nov 20, 2018 22:01
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resurgam40 posted:My love of the wonderful faces on Cognitive Akechi aside (seriously, I think I jumped when I saw them first time), a love I shal share by quoting this wonderful post: this is all a bit stupid considering that, again, the entire purpose of akechi's character is to (badly) show the destructive acts that dispossessed people can resort to when faced with institutional repression say he's redeemable or not, but he absolutely has reasons for being the way he is and to go "oh well he's just a monster" is to dismiss one of the few points this mishmash of a game actually tries to make e: especially comparing him to adachi, who was a grown-rear end man that decided to brutalize other people purely for shits and giggles Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Nov 20, 2018 |
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Nov 20, 2018 22:07
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Nov 20, 2018 22:10
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Oxxidation posted:welcome to the Akechi Discourse I don't think this thread has the drive to match what was done in both the game and spoiler thread.
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Nov 20, 2018 22:10
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I want to get off Mr. Crow's Wild Ride
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Nov 20, 2018 22:11
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It seems like there is something there worth expanding on. Haru going "Okay, I'll never forgive you but I see where you went wrong," could have been done better. Cognitive Akechi and the rest of the party could have hammered down more on ... certain things. "You immediately jumped to the most bloodthirsty, convoluted, and insane route you could think of, instead of something that could actually work?"  "See, that's what I mean. I wouldn't be doing this if Akechi wasn't always going so far out of his way to be Shido's puppet when there was no reason to. I'm a literal puppet because he's somehow more of one."("Yeah, way to waste the Wild Card."||"...I think two girls we both know are laughing at your utter failure."||"Joining us again is the only way you could actually accomplish something.")
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Nov 20, 2018 22:12
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Goro Akechi's Wild Ride Will Return In Persona Q2
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Nov 20, 2018 22:12
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Oxxidation posted:this is all a bit stupid considering that, again, the entire purpose of akechi's character is to (badly) show the destructive acts that dispossessed people can resort to when faced with institutional repression Oh please. This isn't about whether Akechi is sympathetic or even redeemable: even after all this, there's still a way to do that without completely infuriating everyone. This is purely regarding the treatment of the story and this plot beat by the writers, who bungled it. And you are correct- Akechi does have legitimate reasons for being a broken character, and were it not for the insistence of the rest of the game that I feel sorry for him, I might have actually felt sorry for him. But a mishandling is a mishandling, and I am not going to call a bad plot beat a good one, not when I have seen, heard, and read this exact plot beat handled much more maturely by better writers.
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Nov 20, 2018 22:24
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K, sorry.
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Nov 20, 2018 |
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Nov 20, 2018 22:47
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Don't do this.
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Nov 20, 2018 22:50
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ApeHawk posted:Oh good, I can finally post this: I'm glad you saved and remembered it for so long.
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Nov 20, 2018 23:29
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Was there any moment in the game where Akechi even halfway hinted that he liked the main cast? Aside from this boss scenario? Because as I recall, every bit of interaction was done for the purpose of turning the main characters into patsies meant to take the fall and then be killed. resurgam40 posted:I'm grumpy about this sort of thing; I hear theyre trying to make the Grinch relatable again in this new Grinch adaptation. God drat it, why can't we just let our monsters be goddamn monsters? Disney made a Maleficent movie where she didnu nuffin. Maleficent. The self proclaimed "Mistress of a Evil" with actual control over the powers of Hell. It doesn't seem like you really get villains who are evil just because anymore. Blueberry Pancakes fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Nov 20, 2018 |
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Nov 20, 2018 23:38
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The Goro-specific dialogue in Mementos is 50% the team making GBS threads on him, 50% them actually building a rapport. Of course the Goro dialogue has a ridiculously low rate of showing up and you only have so much time to go Mementos dive with him, so no one really sees any of it.
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Nov 21, 2018 00:08
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so like Haru, all his potential character as a team member is locked behind something that is actually a pain in the rear end to do with music nobody likes. And even with that, they should've either put in rapport in the main game AND also have Futaba and Haru be like 'Eat poo poo you psycho' with others being conciliatory or 'moderate'.
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Nov 21, 2018 00:31
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Was there any moment in the game where Akechi even halfway hinted that he liked the main cast? Aside from this boss scenario? Akechi's little meltdown prior to his fight was meant to confirm that, while he was definitely setting the Thieves up to be framed from the start, his constant and slightly desperate attempts to endear himself to Joker were genuine his invasion of our personal space was done in the name of friendship
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Nov 21, 2018 00:59
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rest in poo poo, akechiApeHawk posted:Oh good, I can finally post this:
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Nov 21, 2018 01:35
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I could kinda buy trying to get him on their side as a purely pragmatic move. He's not totally wrong that offing him is one of their few options for dealing with him to prevent him from being a problem. What else could they do? They can't give him a change of heart, they're not going to convince anyone that he murdered people by invading their mind palaces. So if they don't want to actually kill a human being (something it's not totally outrageous to not want to do, even if the person in question is awful and killed people you cared about), co-opting him gets him out of the way. If you can stomach dealing with him. I'm not sure the game could have pulled that off convincingly either, but it makes more sense than a sincere "let's let bygones be bygones!" thing.
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Nov 21, 2018 01:58
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I could buy that Akechi's a legitimately broken person, especially with the themes of the game. However, there's definitely no way that he should have gotten the whole heroic sacrifice deal. One small moment of good after killing multiple people and then trying and failing to kill the people you're now helping does not a redemption make.
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Nov 21, 2018 02:05
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Disney made a Maleficent movie where she didnu nuffin. I know right? Heck, they even made Akuma Lawful Good in SF4 for some reason.  OOrochi posted:I could buy that Akechi's a legitimately broken person, especially with the themes of the game. However, there's definitely no way that he should have gotten the whole heroic sacrifice deal. One small moment of good after killing multiple people and then trying and failing to kill the people you're now helping does not a redemption make. Feels like they wanted to do an Adachi again but ham-handed it so hard that the keys started exploding out of the keyboard.
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Nov 21, 2018 02:17
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Yeah, I just wish the characters took more of a "Yeah, okay, I get why you're a bastard... But you're still a real bastard. Top shelf poo poo syrup. So, screw ya." Instead of what happened. Never cared for Goro Fuccboi Akechi. Fuckechi, if you will.
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Nov 21, 2018 02:25
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ApeHawk posted:Oh good, I can finally post this: Expected, but still  And yeah, count me as another person who thought that the attempted redemption of Akechi was terribly done and out of place. But I guess that's to be expected of the constant trope in Japanese fiction where forgiveness papers over all wounds, no matter how grevious, and making friends out of defeated enemies and all that. And of course the internet ran with it as well. GhostStalker fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Nov 21, 2018 |
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Nov 21, 2018 02:33
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I always liked the meta joke behind Akechi skipping 2 ranks, and that everyone at Rank 9 gets the ability to take a fatal hit for the protagonist so of course he sacrifices himself for us and skips to rank 10. The problem here is that the rewrites have left what could have been an interesting and meaningful attempt to save someone who went further than the Phantom Thieves but was ultimately still trying to do what they do is defeated by making him Shido's only weapon in the Cognitive World. Ideally you split Akechi between the Detective who is trying to ingratiate himself into Shido's inner circle and shut him down out of hatred and goes ahead with killing people instead of forcing them to repent, and the Cleaver as the person actually performing the hits on people like Futaba's mother and the various rampage accidents. Akechi should be the one to kill Haru's dad and betray the theives, but making the Cleaner the guy behind all the mass murder fixes a few plot beats and makes this attempt at a redemption more understandable/reasonable. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Nov 21, 2018 |
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Nov 21, 2018 03:27
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