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seriously, they're just going to run the Reagan playbook. it does not matter that the actual man was a jelly-brained monster whose accomplishments were a laundry list of tragedies and disasters. the -idea- of Trump, of The Man Who Promised The Wall? the descendants of the conservatives will be genuflecting before the Ben Garrison version of him in the postapocalyptic wastes to bless fortifications.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:13
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Rigel posted:Trump: I hereby give the military permission to help arrest illegals, and if they get rowdy you can even shoot them too!!! quote:“They’re not even carrying guns, for Christ’s sake,” Mattis said when asked how the military would avoid a repeat of a 1997 incident in which Marines on the border mistakenly shot a teenager. The military has said the work parties building fortifications on the border include one pistol-armed military policeman for every three or four unarmed combat engineers. lmao
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Nov 21, 2018 20:14
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:oh, I have EXTREMELY terrible news for you about the future, Rigel. Just like the GOP loves GWB, right? Oh, wait... The GOP has a long history of abandoning losers who hurt the party's electoral performance. They love Reagan because they did well under him and he allowed for GHWB to be elected. They hated GHWB and they quickly disavowed GWB when it became obvious that Bush helped get Obama elected. They will abandon Trump quickly and decisively if they lose badly in 2020. They barely tolerate him now only because they don't want to be primaried. Your brain is broken.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:14
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:seriously, they're just going to run the Reagan playbook. it does not matter that the actual man was a jelly-brained monster whose accomplishments were a laundry list of tragedies and disasters. the -idea- of Trump, of The Man Who Promised The Wall? Trump is just Reagan with worse PR, and as of this year Democratic politicians invoke Reagan in speeches to try and shame Trump so do the math. I don't think it will happen while Trump is in office, that's a reach, but they're going to  the gently caress out of Trump within the decade, especially when inevitably someone worse becomes president.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:15
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Josef bugman posted:I mean he isn't going to be "beloved" but there is sure as gently caress going to be an attempt. The fact that this is going on with loving Bush, doesn't suggest that this may happen in the future? Again, if your argument is literally "The fact that Bush while largely still reviled by the people who reviled him during his tenure and much more criticized and insulted by his base at the time is embraced in his post political career by the ELITE class because of his general charm and decorum in keeping with political norms means that Donald Trump will too" I gotta ask what Donald Trump we're talking about. By all means, criticize the Obamas and Biden and post your memes. I'm certainly not gonna stick up for the Bushes or argue that anyone should. But like... you don't see a fundamental difference here? That the very that is so reviled and mocked is the reason Michelle Obama says nice things about Bush and that Trump not only doesn't have an ounce of it in him but has made it his life goal to destroy it at every turn?
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Nov 21, 2018 20:15
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Rigel posted:Just like the GOP loves GWB, right? Oh, wait... not thinking it through, Rigel. what do you think the GOP response to the climate refugees is going to be. do you think they are going to smile, and nod, and say "perhaps we had it wrong before?" they will be chanting "BUILD THE WALL" until the day you loving die.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:16
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Tibalt posted:Crow Jane, what movie is your av from? A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night. It owns.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:17
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Tibalt posted:Crow Jane, what movie is your av from?
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Nov 21, 2018 20:17
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enraged_camel posted:Hasn't this claim been thoroughly refuted many, many times? That he was 'brilliant', sure, that's not what I'm saying though. I'm saying he wasn't as stupid as he played, and probably didn't give too much of a poo poo beyond being president and letting the party stooges run things. He talked like a normal political poo poo when he first ran for governor of Texas. He played up the folksiness for 2000 and after. His whole ranch in texas was a photo-op.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:17
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selec posted:How do you think the knowledge of thousands of dead Iraqis fits in there. What kind of repression do you think it takes? Do they just take a bunch of Xanax and not give a gently caress? Not for me to say. Bush II should by all means be tried as a war criminal for his part in pushing the WMD narrative. But Michelle befriending the guy being looked-at as her tacit approval of those crimes is just a whole new level of (pardon the pun) black/white thinking.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:18
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SpeakSlow posted:Not for me to say. Bush II should by all means be tried as a war criminal for his part in pushing the WMD narrative. But Michelle befriending the guy being looked-at as her tacit approval of those crimes is just a whole new level of (pardon the pun) black/white thinking. what about the part where her husband didn't prosecute him and amped up drone warfare in the countries he lied us into, how does that fit into the picture
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Nov 21, 2018 20:19
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:they will be chanting "BUILD THE WALL" until the day you loving die. Why should I give a poo poo? Republicans are always going to be racists for the forseeable future? I'm shocked! Trump is still going to be abandoned and hated when he's gone if he loses badly. They'll pick a new leader who can dogwhistle better without screaming the quiet stuff too loudly (and therefore hopefully win). There's going to be a lot of "oh come on, Trump was a weird anomaly, he wasn't even really a Republican, don't let him turn you off the GOP forever" coming from the GOP in a post-Trump world.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:20
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STAC Goat posted:But like... you don't see a fundamental difference here? The thing is that America is very good at memory holing the past and revising history. Trump will be rendered as a goofball idiot who was just too darn dumb to understand, and man you don't hate your racist uncle, do you? Yeah. Whitewashing the rich and powerful is the national pastime.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:20
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We forgave Germany for Hitler, you don't think we'll forgive ourselves for Trump?
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Nov 21, 2018 20:24
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I could see Trump holding a veterans charity event just to generate why-won't-they-treat-me-like-Bush hypocrisy headlines when he needs buzz to keep him from falling out of the news cycle and losing the attention he craves, and then there'd have to be at least one thinkpiece taking his side after that
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Nov 21, 2018 20:25
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Tibalt posted:We forgave Germany for Hitler, you don't think we'll forgive ourselves for Trump? Is the US going to pass laws making it a criminal offense to be a corrupt dumbass?
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Nov 21, 2018 20:26
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The obvious historical parallel for Trump is Nixon, and he’ll be remembered like him but worse.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:27
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Rigel posted:Why should I give a poo poo? Republicans are always going to be racists for the forseeable future? I'm shocked! who is the patron saint of The Wall, Rigel. who descended from on high, slaying the demon Hillary, Who Shall Be Locked Up, and brought the beauty of the Wall to a party that had turned its back on its saving power. who is the president with the highest Republican approval rating in American history. you will be hearing "I don't give a drat about what the establishment liberals have to say. I'm a Trump Conservative. BUILD THE drat WALL." for the rest of your life. it won't even stop after the democrats cave to building one.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:29
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Pleads posted:Is the US going to pass laws making it a criminal offense to be a corrupt dumbass?
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Nov 21, 2018 20:29
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Rigel posted:There's going to be a lot of "oh come on, Trump was a weird anomaly, he wasn't even really a Republican, don't let him turn you off the GOP forever" coming from the GOP in a post-Trump world. Not only coming from the GOP, the media will do their part to pretend trump was a one off AMD not the I'd of the Republican base. That said I'm not sure if it will work. After getting the racism straight, as trump likes to do it, they may quickly lose interest in dog whistles anymore.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:29
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Stexils posted:what about the part where her husband didn't prosecute him and amped up drone warfare in the countries he lied us into, how does that fit into the picture Ah, that old chestnut. Given B. Obama's reticence towards sending more troops, the decision was likely more about keeping troops safe. Was it the right decision versus an all-out withdrawl? Was this a wholly moral decision? I certainly can't answer that. But it kept American troops alive and, ostensibly that's part of the job. I'd love for there to be no war, but I can't ignore the fact that any decision Obama made would have cost lives, considering the state of the region and the pile of poo poo he was given coming-in to the job.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:29
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SpeakSlow posted:Not for me to say. Bush II should by all means be tried as a war criminal for his part in pushing the WMD narrative. But Michelle befriending the guy being looked-at as her tacit approval of those crimes is just a whole new level of (pardon the pun) black/white thinking. It's easy. Not one of my friends has done so much as a massacre, let alone a genocide.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:29
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Lightning Knight posted:The thing is that America is very good at memory holing the past and revising history. Trump will be rendered as a goofball idiot who was just too darn dumb to understand, and man you don't hate your racist uncle, do you? Yeah. Whitewashing the rich and powerful is the national pastime. Speak to an old liberal some time about the Reagan administration. My good friend who is 65 remembers living through his administration pretty much the same way we feel like while watching trumps administration. The pundit class’ ability (and thus anyone who didn’t live through their tenure) to rehab politicians with the help of time is without measure.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:29
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Lightning Knight posted:The thing is that America is very good at memory holing the past and revising history. Trump will be rendered as a goofball idiot who was just too darn dumb to understand, and man you don't hate your racist uncle, do you? Yeah. Whitewashing the rich and powerful is the national pastime. I call complete bullshit. Bush isn't being whitewashed by the masses. He's being embraced by his elite of elite peers. You see the Obamas embracing him? You see President Sanders or Booker or Gillinbrand or Avenatti or whoever you are putting your hopes into in 2020 doing it? You see President Ocasio Cortez or Gillium or whoever doing it if God forbid the monster gets a second term? Really? Ok, "President Avenatti" definitely would. This argument is literally "the thing the Bushes are doing to salvage their legacy with their peers that is also the thing Trump actively firebombs is gonna result in the exact same result." That seems flat out stupid unless I'm really missing something. Its also a gross exaggeration (lie) to act like Biden putting a medal around his neck and Michelle Obama hugging him means WE have forgiven and forgotten about Bush. Because I see no evidence of that at large. Will people whitewash Trump? Yeah, absolutely. People whitewash Nixon and Slavery and the Confederacy and Thanksgiving. There's people in this very forum who will find ways to applaud him if it helps attack a mutual enemy. And yeah, ever President eventually gets less hated with time. But the notion that he's going to get the same basic decorum respect every other ex-president does when he's done everything in his power to sabotage that just reeks of "nothing matters" to me.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:30
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Don't make friends with genocidaires. I'd hope not!
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Nov 21, 2018 20:30
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SpeakSlow posted:Ah, that old chestnut. Given B. Obama's reticence towards sending more troops, the decision was likely more about keeping troops safe. Was it the right decision versus an all-out withdrawl? Was this a wholly moral decision? I certainly can't answer that. But it kept American troops alive and, ostensibly that's part of the job. This statement doesn't lead from the other one?
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Nov 21, 2018 20:30
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STAC Goat posted:I call complete bullshit. Bush isn't being whitewashed by the masses. He's being embraced by his elite of elite peers. You see the Obamas embracing him? You see President Sanders or Booker or Gillinbrand or Avenatti or whoever you are putting your hopes into in 2020 doing it? You see President Ocasio Cortez or Gillium or whoever doing it if God forbid the monster gets a second term? Really? Ok, "President Avenatti" definitely would. Give it 3 years and you will have "elite media opinion" talking about the good old days under Bush.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:31
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skylined! posted:Speak to an old liberal some time about the Reagan administration. My good friend who is 65 remembers living through his administration pretty much the same way we feel like while watching trumps administration. Yep. This is what scares me. Trump is basically just Reagan but more overtly douchey. Reagan got away with literal treason, funded fascist death squads, the works. Trump will be rehabilitated, the question is to what degree. People even still go to bat for Nixon, in the sense that they're like "well at least Nixon made the EPA!" as if that wasn't a ploy to keep anymore significant change from happening, and Nixon is mostly hated for Watergate, not, you know, the conspiring to prevent a peace settlement in Vietnam to get elected, mass bombing campaigns, Southern Strategy, War on Drugs, etc....
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Nov 21, 2018 20:32
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STAC Goat posted:I call complete bullshit. Bush isn't being whitewashed by the masses. He's being embraced by his elite of elite peers. You see the Obamas embracing him? You see President Sanders or Booker or Gillinbrand or Avenatti or whoever you are putting your hopes into in 2020 doing it? You see President Ocasio Cortez or Gillium or whoever doing it if God forbid the monster gets a second term? Really? Ok, "President Avenatti" definitely would. I think you are correct until Trump dies. Once Trump dies (which to be perfectly honest, with the health he's in, might be before Bush II dies), it'll be a free for all to whitewash his legacy and memory hole the worst aspects of him, and there will be an entire generation who will be like "well it can't have been that bad! Look at President Richard Spencer! Clearly you guys are exaggerating."
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Nov 21, 2018 20:34
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SpeakSlow posted:Ah, that old chestnut. Given B. Obama's reticence towards sending more troops, the decision was likely more about keeping troops safe. Was it the right decision versus an all-out withdrawl? Was this a wholly moral decision? I certainly can't answer that. But it kept American troops alive and, ostensibly that's part of the job. "that old chestnut", yes, the massive rollout of robot kill programs including multiple wedding bombings. can't believe people bring it up. you know what else keeps american troops alive that he didn't do? withdrawing from the country. this is why people hate wishy washy libs like you. there were "no good options" because this is an unwinnable conflict.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:34
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Jaxyon posted:W wasn't dumb, he just didn't give a poo poo. No he was dumb, solid C student with no A's. He got where he was from pure spoiled nepotism.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:34
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STAC Goat posted:I call complete bullshit. Bush isn't being whitewashed by the masses. He's being embraced by his elite of elite peers. You see the Obamas embracing him? You see President Sanders or Booker or Gillinbrand or Avenatti or whoever you are putting your hopes into in 2020 doing it? You see President Ocasio Cortez or Gillium or whoever doing it if God forbid the monster gets a second term? Really? Ok, "President Avenatti" definitely would. Liberals have already rehabilitated Bush: quote:The CNN poll conducted by SSRS found 61 percent of Americans polled view Bush favorably and just 33 percent view him unfavorably.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:34
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I knew Melania hated her life but I'm a little worried about the direction she's taking https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1065288234798931968?s=19
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Nov 21, 2018 20:35
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Rigel posted:Trump: I hereby give the military permission to help arrest illegals, and if they get rowdy you can even shoot them too!!! i guess wants to play at being Choltitz but with the border.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:35
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I think how trump is remembered depends on how he leaves office. If Mueller drags him and his friends to jail, he'll be reviled like nixon. Memory holed if he loses his reelection and will get the Reagan treatment if he serves two terms. However he leaves, expect "he wasnt a real Republican " from Republicans and no pushback from the media asking why he had the best approval rating during his presidency from Republicans.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:37
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Quinnipiac poll, Democrats only (11/14-19) Should Pelosi be speaker? Yes: 53% No: 27% ¯\_(ツ)_/¯: 20%
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Nov 21, 2018 20:38
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Lightning Knight posted:I think you are correct until Trump dies. Once Trump dies (which to be perfectly honest, with the health he's in, might be before Bush II dies), it'll be a free for all to whitewash his legacy and memory hole the worst aspects of him, and there will be an entire generation who will be like "well it can't have been that bad! Look at President Richard Spencer! Clearly you guys are exaggerating." maybe. i mean alot of nixons legacy whitewashing was done purposly by him. i mean the dude set up his own museum and had his friends run it. plus by the time he died he was mostly know as Foreighn policy wonk who wrote a gently caress ton of books on the subject. the only reason he wasn't more hosed is outside of watergate, alot of the really bad poo poo wasn't common knowledge. plus he had enough of a "postive legacy" in office that he could use. same with Reagan to an extent. i think trump will end up like Harding except actively a lovely person. i mean the loving internet exist, you can't hide and bury poo poo like you could back then. also trump is a out and out lovely rear end in a top hat with no positive traits or positive charisma. that doesn't help with building a broad positive legacy. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Nov 21, 2018 |
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Nov 21, 2018 20:39
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Reagan was a lot more popular in opinion polls than Trump is. He hasn't cracked 46 on Gallup yet. Trump is definitely not going to be the next Reagan.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:39
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Bicyclops posted:Reagan was a lot more popular in opinion polls than Trump is. He hasn't cracked 46 on Gallup yet. Trump is definitely not going to be the next Reagan. This is a fair point, but Trump's fan base is also very motivated and I don't think the opposition to Trump will remain as motivated once he has left office. A motivated fan base can do wonders for your image, especially once you've died and aren't around to constantly make yourself look terrible.
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Nov 21, 2018 20:41
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Trump will get rehabilitated when we look back and say "well, at least Trump only tried to turn America fascist, he didn't succeed like the 2028 president did"
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Nov 21, 2018 20:41
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