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Mr. Fowl posted:Sure, all that, and Estradiol for Lily. Nah, just straight up a girl now. And Saki gets her Tamagotchi back.
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Nov 23, 2018 06:38
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I gotta say, this is not what I expected when I first caught wind of the show’s concept. So far, it’s been pretty drat good.
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Nov 23, 2018 07:31
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 Come on Kotaro, you can do this
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Nov 23, 2018 18:39
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Cao Ni Ma posted:
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Nov 23, 2018 18:54
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Cao Ni Ma posted:
I believe in him https://twitter.com/LEGOdouMoko/status/1065953878514913280?s=19
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Nov 23, 2018 18:57
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I for one, can't wait for the Though My Life May Have Ended Once By Some Twist of Fate I Have Risen, and If Song and Dance Are to Be My Fate, Then Carrying the Memories of My Comrades In My Heart As I Sally Forth Shall Be My SAGA episode.
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Nov 23, 2018 21:52
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Cao Ni Ma posted:
Poor Yuta.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:20
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Cuntellectual posted:Poor Yuta. Let's be real, though, he's not the protagonist of the show.
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Nov 23, 2018 22:22
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Darth Walrus posted:Let's be real, though, he's not the protagonist of the show. Jury is still out as to the extent to which he even exists tbh
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Nov 23, 2018 22:29
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Mr. Fowl posted:Dealing with my own gender dysphoria regularly, Lily dying from it was surprisingly relatable and funny. theGrooseofLegend posted:I hope they avoid dead-naming her in the future. I feel confident that they won't do that, though. They already gave her birth name in the episode, Masao (family name Go). It's pretty unlikely it'll be brought up again. But the show brought up something pretty interesting while it was addressing the divide in her idol persona and her being a lost daughter to her father -- it indicated that Hoshikawa Lily is actually her stage name. Japan is very restrictive when it comes to using public aliases different from your legal name for legal purposes, and multiple issues would've arisen from trying to change her legal name -- I'm not sure it would even be possible as a minor, and even if her parents were completely supportive, a name change "severs" someone from their parents so that they're no longer legally recognised as their parents' child. It may have been that her child actor/idol persona while alive was a way of getting around Japan's repressive legal and civil treatment of trans people, and that her popular success and public image would've been critical for her personal identity and mental health. The facial hair would've been traumatic on multiple levels. I'm guessing that this might be a much bigger deal to Japanese trans people, given how much more important family is over there. Hiveminded fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 04:17
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Spiritus Nox posted:Jury is still out as to the extent to which he even exists tbh But I mean. He's below Kirito. Kirito. That's gotta hurt. Darth Walrus posted:Let's be real, though, he's not the protagonist of the show. I found out about the show from pixiv, and as far as I am aware it is about a cute girl with labcoat, a cute evil girl with a jacket, and maybe kaiju or something?
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Nov 24, 2018 05:04
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kirito's okay tbh i like in the mobile game where everytime theres a new version of him in his ggo appearance where he has long hair and a feminine face, hes more and more okay with it and starts getting kind of into it
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Nov 24, 2018 07:42
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Mulderman posted:I don't want a Tae focused episode. Just have her be wacky. I think explaining her background will take away part of what makes her charming. I hope the show just ends with someone finally recognizing her, they do a small flashback to how legendary she was and that's it.
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Nov 24, 2018 23:30
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i went to a close family member's funeral yesterday so the song at the end had me bawlin also lol @ sakura's shorts Beasteh fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 23:59
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As a trans girl more than 2000 miles from my family on Thanksgiving , I cried twice (During the episode and just rewatching the song) and feel my lower lip start quivering whenever I think about it. This show good, y'all
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Nov 25, 2018 01:00
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Cuntellectual posted:But I mean. Discount Ultraman is also involved (and also a shitload of Transformers references), but that's most of it, yes.
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Nov 25, 2018 01:08
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This week's episode destroyed me. This is not fair, Zom-Com show! Not loving fair at all! 
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Nov 25, 2018 02:24
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Wark Say posted:This week's episode destroyed me. This is not fair, Zom-Com show! Not loving fair at all! Just wait until next week when we find out that Saki died because she was trying to take care of her tamogatchi while riding
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Nov 25, 2018 02:53
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Does this count as fan art, because this is brilliant. https://twitter.com/Ettin64/status/1066509741789085697
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Nov 25, 2018 05:43
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i was going to post that the original japanese dialogue doesn't really use any or contain any trans messages but there was no real discussion avenue I could see coming from that and I think the idea behind the concept is still indicative of being supportive of said movement in Japan anyways (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 25, 2018 09:26
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I mean that also depends on what you consider "trans messages" to be. Lily's story had a lot of familiar beats to me. There's also a pretty good tweet thread here that in its later parts goes into some of the differences in gender culture in Japan compared to America, one of which is that "transgender" isn't really widely used in Japan so it's gonna be a while until anime is any more explicit than Zombieland Saga.
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Nov 25, 2018 09:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r-vPsls-Kg
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Nov 25, 2018 12:37
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Futaba Anzu posted:i was going to post that the original japanese dialogue doesn't really use any or contain any trans messages but there was no real discussion avenue I could see coming from that and I think the idea behind the concept is still indicative of being supportive of said movement in Japan anyways the japanese dialogue doesn't literally have her say 'im trans' but she is someone who was designated male at birth but identifies and thinks of themselves as female, and did so even before they became a zombie. she was wearing dresses and acted like a girl even before the acting thing came up. the japanese literally has her refer to her 'male' name as something she threw away. how is that not what a trans person is. if this show had two girls make out and get married it wouldn't be 'not a lesbian message' because they didn't break down the specific psychosexual dynamics of homosexuality. Endorph fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 15:54
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I'm kind of surprised it was up for discussion anywhere at all. It seems pretty clear that Lily is trans, and there isn't much room to debate that given the very flashbacks in the same episode.
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Nov 25, 2018 15:59
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CrashScreen posted:I'm kind of surprised it was up for discussion anywhere at all. It seems pretty clear that Lily is trans, and there isn't much room to debate that given the very flashbacks in the same episode. Even Reddit's generally been cool about it, at least. Well, the general anime subreddit. The zombieland saga subreddit is kind of a shitshow.
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Nov 25, 2018 16:00
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CrashScreen posted:I'm kind of surprised it was up for discussion anywhere at all. It seems pretty clear that Lily is trans, and there isn't much room to debate that given the very flashbacks in the same episode. Yeah I think its relegated to the shitshow unmoderated sites. A few places have had a minority try to stir poo poo but they've all been shut down rather decisively There is no way to interpret Lily as being anything but trans. Yes, the show doesn't directly say she's trans, but it doesn't need to. She identifies as a girl, lives as one dies as one and lives again as one. Its pretty conclusive when the voice actress says something like "She's not Masao anymore, she's lily" and "Zombieland Saga is the story of the friendship between girls" Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 16:08
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Also when the director tweets about the episode and refers to her as female. You can't even say that she got made magically a girl because they comment on that. And even if she did, she'd just be... magically trans? Like it's not a situation where it's somewhat ambiguous, like a character who crossdresses for plot reasons like chihiro in dangan ronpa, or a character who crossdresses because they feel like it but refers to themselves as male like ferris in re:zero or something. Lily was born male and now presents as and identifies as female because doing so is what she wants to do, and the idea of being seen as male or becoming an adult male is traumatizing and painful for her. There is literally zero way to read this as accidental or something that can be interpreted one way or the other. She's trans.
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Nov 25, 2018 16:28
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It was a really loving grand slam of an episode. And I'm really really glad that aside from Saki being kind of blunt about it, all the girls, the dad and Kotaro were like "It's her identity and what she wants".
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Nov 25, 2018 16:33
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Wasn't there some official word on the matter somewhere?
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Nov 25, 2018 16:39
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Nov 25, 2018 16:43
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Pollyanna posted:Wasn't there some official word on the matter somewhere? The official english Zombieland twitter posted this: https://twitter.com/SagaZombieLand/status/1066043317274652672 If there was something from the Japanese side I don't know, I can't read Japanese and it hasn't come up in the trans communities I follow who have otherwise been eating this news up.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:23
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The director has a couple of tweets about the episode that are mostly just about the concert scene and the development of the episode and not really addressing that plot point directly but, well, he calls her 'lily-chan' so it's pretty clear that the director also sees her as a girl named Lily, which, combined with how much of her backstory we're privy to, is already an official confirmation of 'yep she's trans' because there's no way to get from point a to point b without her being trans. https://twitter.com/munehisa_sakai/status/1066436527540989953
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Nov 25, 2018 17:32
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I wish the show's sense of humor was still as dark as when it started, and Lily's dad died of mental shock after hearing the song. Then he could have been revived as the group's security/roadie .
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Nov 25, 2018 17:43
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Endorph posted:The director has a couple of tweets about the episode that are mostly just about the concert scene and the development of the episode and not really addressing that plot point directly but, well, he calls her 'lily-chan' so it's pretty clear that the director also sees her as a girl named Lily, which, combined with how much of her backstory we're privy to, is already an official confirmation of 'yep she's trans' because there's no way to get from point a to point b without her being trans. From what I can tell of the Japanese discussion and reception, it's the typical bullshit you'd see elsewhere re: the matter. I find it highly unlikely that they understood what they asserted in the sense of how the West understands being trans, but it's ultimately the same no matter what, so the point is moot. Death of the author is in full effect here, and if the West says she's trans, she's trans. 
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Nov 25, 2018 17:52
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There's plenty of people in JP boards confusing it with the run of the mill otokonoko, but that's just because these sort of representation in media isn't really common in otaku culture. Theres equally as much, maybe even more saying Lily is Lily or Lily has the heart/soul of a girl
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Nov 25, 2018 17:55
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Pollyanna posted:I find it highly unlikely that they understood what they asserted in the sense of how the West understands being trans Like, the language is different between western and japanese conceptions of being trans, yeah, you could get into those differences all day, especially with regards to stuff like conflation of homosexuality and transsexuality, crossdressing, surgery, namechanges, etc. but the core idea is still exactly the same. someone who was born one sex presenting and identifying as the other, and the people around them respecting that identity. why is it somehow impossible that they just wrote a trans character? There's no indication to the contrary and every single thing in the show points to this being an intentional choice. the show is written exactly like how ive seen trans characters written in manga and other anime that were explicitly about trans characters. the west didn't invent transsexuality.
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Nov 25, 2018 17:58
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Endorph posted:... why? Yeah, you're right. The main reason I say that is because I've heard of confusion and difficulty in understanding the term as the West understands it, but as I mentioned, it's exactly the same thing no matter what.  Also people on the internet will always be belligerent assholes, so I try not to take their opinions all that seriously.
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Nov 25, 2018 18:04
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I think the context of it all is really rectified by the clearly intentional instance of giving Sakura those trans flag-colored shorts. That's way too specific to be a mere coincidence.
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Nov 25, 2018 18:06
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Pollyanna posted:Yeah, you're right. The main reason I say that is because I've heard of confusion and difficulty in understanding the term as the West understands it, but as I mentioned, it's exactly the same thing no matter what. ' Hey there's this cool manga mad called The Bride Was A Boy by a Japaneses trans woman that talks a lot about this and yeah no Japan understands what trans people are. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Nov 25, 2018 |
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Nov 25, 2018 18:08
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Takoluka posted:I think the context of it all is really rectified by the clearly intentional instance of giving Sakura those trans flag-colored shorts. That's way too specific to be a mere coincidence. it turns out she's even had them from the very start, they show up in ep2 for a bit
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