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Re: intent They may be charged separately but they are still, ya know, charged. Not put in charge of the loving court.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:39
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Skex posted:Get some loving therapy because injustice has been a part of the human condition for as long as humans have been and the way that it is looking it will be that way for short amount of time we have left. And in the end we are all loving dead forgotten either way. Wind blows, rain falls, and the strong prey on the weak. All is as it should be.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:40
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sexpig by night posted:Nukes: They're kinda the worst thing to do to someone! We're the bad guys! Regardless of how bad the nukes were, Japan were the bad guys hth.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:41
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When it comes to war sometimes you just have to swing the ol' cock-n-balls around to make a point.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:41
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Revelation 2-13 posted:Republicans are getting quite close to convincing me that the 2nd amendment is really important. You know, the heart transplant letter and your comment about the 2nd amendment... They literally made a movie about this exact situation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Q. The film tells the story of John Quincy Archibald (Denzel Washington), a father and husband whose son is diagnosed with an enlarged heart and finds out he is unable to receive a transplant because HMO insurance will not cover it, before he decides to hold up the hospital and force them to do it. You know your health care system is super hosed when they make movies about people forcing doctors to do operations by gunpoint and its not set in ww2.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:41
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Comrade Fakename posted:Regardless of how bad the nukes were, Japan were the bad guys hth. The innocent civilians who got killed or maimed weren't, hth
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Nov 24, 2018 16:41
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Your Taint posted:The innocent civilians who got killed or maimed weren't, hth If those bombs had been dropped on Nazi Germany (as they were originally intended to be), we may still be talking about how bad the nukes were, but I doubt we’d be talking about who the “real” bad guys were. Japan were definitely the bad guys in that war.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:44
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Comrade Fakename posted:If those bombs had been dropped on Nazi Germany (as they were originally intended to be), we may still be talking about how bad the nukes were, but I doubt we’d be talking about who the “real” bad guys were. I'm not saying they weren't. But just because the government and military were bad doesn't mean 100,000 innocent people who had nothing to do with any of it deserved to die horribly.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:46
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Ardennes posted:The bombs were in all honesty probably more about finishing the war and providing a demonstration project against the Soviets than anything else. The US didn't want to have to go through Operation Olympic and the Soviets were moving very quickly in August 1945. The US needed to both decisively end the war, cut off Soviet movements, and show the Soviets they just didn't have the bomb but multiple ones. Even just waiting them out would have resulted in even worse starvation than did happen. The Russians kicking them out of Manchuria probably helped more than their limited invasion of the Kuril islands. Somebody fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 16:48
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Your Taint posted:The innocent civilians who got killed or maimed weren't, hth You could make an argument for it stopping the purges in china and korea pretty much instantly to counter. I mean I'm not really comfortable saying nuking Japan was the right call, but it was an insanely complex situation. It's not a proud moment in history at all, but trying to calculate the loss of civilian lives with or without isn't really possible. I think there was even an argument at some point that the firebombing of Japanese towns with conventional bombs would have ended up with more civilian losses by the end of the war than the nukes did. I'm not 100% sure on that so if someone else remembers that and can confirm or deny feel free to correct me.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:49
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Comrade Fakename posted:If those bombs had been dropped on Nazi Germany (as they were originally intended to be), we may still be talking about how bad the nukes were, but I doubt we’d be talking about who the “real” bad guys were. Something something the firebombing of Dresden something
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Nov 24, 2018 16:55
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Your Taint posted:I'm not saying they weren't. But just because the government and military were bad doesn't mean 100,000 innocent people who had nothing to do with any of it deserved to die horribly. And that’s why I never said they did? Sexpig by night said that nukes were “kinda the worst thing to do to someone”. To be honest, I think that nuking Nanking would have been better than what the Japanese did to them. To but it very mildly, doing neither would be preferable.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:55
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citybeatnik posted:Something something the firebombing of Dresden something Dresden proves my point. Plenty of people (rightly) talk about how horrible the firebombing was, but no one sane suggests that actually the Allies were the bad guys in that war.
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Nov 24, 2018 16:57
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Saint Celestine posted:You know, the heart transplant letter and your comment about the 2nd amendment... I remember prior to the ACA that there were literal death panels. Like, no joke. I'd be surprised if that wasn't where the Republicans got that conspiracy theory from. Pre-existing condition protections are important since you'd get your granny or other sick person getting a letter where a bunch of suits from your insurance company decided that it was just too expensive to fulfill their obligations despite having been paid to do just that for 20-30 years by that person. If you'd dig around you could find articles/obituaries to that effect, some of which were posted on SA back then. And were sometimes accompanied by an ending of "And then this person died by trying to drive a truck through the restaurant/house they thought they or people like them were attending. We have no idea why this nice person would do this!". So yeah. It wasn't like it was even that beneficial or safe for those sort of profiteering scumbags too. Given that letter it seems like those sort of parasites have finally started to adapt to the ACA. 
Archonex fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 16:58
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Taerkar posted:Even just waiting them out would have resulted in even worse starvation than did happen. The Russians kicking them out of Manchuria probably helped more than their limited invasion of the Kuril islands. August Storm obviously more influential, but all of it was happening at once and it was clear the Soviets were advancing swiftly on all fronts. If the US had waited to "starve them out" it wouldn't have stopped the war in the time-range that the US wanted. Even if the Soviets didn't land on Hokkaido like the US fear, they would have certainly kept moving in China and possibly Korea. The US obviously didn't care about Japanese civilians and how many died, but how to slow down the Soviets as fast as possible. It is why the intentions were at best morally grey, it was just about the broader geopolitical game being played out and hundreds of thousands of lives were considered "acceptable losses."
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Nov 24, 2018 16:59
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Are we seriously relitigating the atomic bombings again? Can't we get a separate thread for that?
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Nov 24, 2018 17:05
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Ahh, we've circled back to counter-factual history, the last refuge of any amateur "war-historian" interested in justifying the atrocities of their country. (Puts on serious face); seriously guys, considering what was about to happen, the nuking of the civilians was probably for the best. Next, up, why Europe colonizing Africa was probably the best thing that could have happened to the Africans. (Serious face): The Africans would still be primitives hunting with spears and fighting each other if not for Europeans civilizing them. Now, I'm not saying slavery wasn't bad, but...
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Nov 24, 2018 17:06
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Discendo Vox posted:Are we seriously relitigating the atomic bombings again? Can't we get a separate thread for that? Indeed, I think that at this point all of the usual arguments have been made and since it's not really current US politics, it can go in its own thread if someone wants to make one.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:07
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Koalas Massacre posted:This really reads as you telling a trans person and by extension other minorities to shut up and deal with it fyi that'd be because that's exactly what he's saying hth
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Nov 24, 2018 17:09
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On the one hand, lots of people died in Vietnam. On the other hand, I really like Rambo. In short it is impossible to say if the war was good or bad.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:09
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Katt posted:In conclusion nuclear weapons dropped on civilians are not that bad. What matters most is the intent behind dropping nuclear weapons on civilian populations; and the intent was noble so therefore the act was as well. Sure, some civilians died and that was sad. But they died for the greater good you see.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:09
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As a side note, Aetna tried similar poo poo in many states after the ACA was put into law. They'd sign on to be a healthcare/medicare provider and then opt out of paying for just about anything. essentially defrauding the system. Sometimes outright illegally so. All while whining about how it was unfair that they couldn't maintain their profit margins thanks to the ACA and doing everything they could to slander it and any politicians or organizations that caught them in the act. Incidentally, Aetna was forcibly taken off the market for at least a bit in a few states. Mine included, at the time. So at least the ACA accomplished something. Of course it's 2018 and they're still doing this poo poo in states where their governments don't care or the laws weren't amended sufficiently in light of the ACA to punish them for their behavior. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/14/17013944/voxcare-aetna-scandal https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/11/health/aetna-california-investigation/index.html https://www.compassphs.com/blog/health-plan-management/aetna-scandal-illustrates-employers-foot-bill/ https://www.metroweekly.com/2018/10/d-c-fines-aetna-violating-privacy-disclosing-patients-hiv-status/ Archonex fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 17:10
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My fault for falling for starting this derail. Apologies.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:10
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enraged_camel posted:My fault for falling for starting this derail. Apologies. https://twitter.com/dril/status/473265809079693312
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Nov 24, 2018 17:15
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Taerkar posted:Japan's peace offer of the time included them still holding on to their possessions in China/Korea. A claim they have no chance to maintain without naval access to the mainland. The Allies could have isolated them in Japan and then made their own offer.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:15
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I wonder what would happen if centrists like skex were treated the way they treat the poor/poc Oh we know how that goes, they go full fash I like the vague self-awareness though that he's a collaborator and that collaborator's aren't treated very nice Notice however that he isn't upset about being a quisling rear end in a top hat, he's only worried that there may be consequences for being one
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Nov 24, 2018 17:17
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 Make a new thread for relitigating potential Allied/US war crimes in World War II and what you think about the nuclear bombings of Japan, tia. 
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Nov 24, 2018 17:18
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Kitfox88 posted:that'd be because that's exactly what he's saying hth I was trying to be diplomatic because if I don't pick my words very carefully there will be a 3-5 white fragility derail 😑😑😑
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Nov 24, 2018 17:20
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OhDearGodNo posted:jfc it’s a death panel. And single payer will likely have them too: quote:The United Kingdom’s government-funded health service isn’t being so nice to Gilead Sciences’ CAR-T blood cancer treatment Yescarta. The country’s National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) said the therapy is too expensive for the agency to justify. There aren't any other potentially curative options in this setting other than allogeneic stem cell transplant, which isn't all that reliable. People will die based on this financial decision. Maybe it's more just because everyone will die regardless of their personal financial circumstances, but resources will still be finite under universal coverage / single payer.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:24
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[history rant deleted at mod request]
Alkydere fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 24, 2018 |
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Nov 24, 2018 17:28
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KingNastidon posted:And single payer will likely have them too: That's different than saying "You're too poor to waste this limited resource (transplant organs) on. Come back when you're richer."
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Nov 24, 2018 17:28
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KillHour posted:That's different than saying "You're too poor to waste this limited resource (transplant organs) on. Come back when you're richer." Also a result of liberal austerity measures
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Nov 24, 2018 17:29
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PuntCuncher posted:This one time not at Bonnaroo, some kids where imprisoned and desperate, so they did the most effective thing they could to escape, and caused no permanent harm. I wasn't referring to those kids. But I deserve that for reading the thread backwards.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:30
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Koalas Massacre posted:I was trying to be diplomatic because if I don't pick my words very carefully there will be a 3-5 white fragility derail 😑😑😑 Oh come on. Toss that cherry bomb into the pond*. You know you want to. *this is an Appalachian way of saying "stir poo poo up"". Phi230 posted:I wonder what would happen if centrists like skex were treated the way they treat the poor/poc Posts like the one that skex just wrote that revealed the complete "spoiled-child" selfishness of his worldview are a big reason why I confront privilege in this thread the way I do. I may in fact be rather mad, but there is a method to my madness.
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Nov 24, 2018 17:30
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Prester Jane posted:Oh come on. Toss that cherry bomb into the pond*. You know you want to. we are gonna seize skex's poo poo, give it to the poor people he hates so much, and ship his rear end off to jail lmao and unfortunately even then that won't fully be justice for people like skex, the damage is done and it runs deep
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Nov 24, 2018 17:31
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Skex will type you all to death
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Nov 24, 2018 17:33
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Every Skex post is remarkably confident considering they never have any idea what the gently caress they’re talking about
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Nov 24, 2018 17:33
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The nuking of Japan isn't really justified from the viewpoint of the Pacific War in and of itself - the US was in a completely dominate position in '45 and could prosecute the war at its leisure, etc etc. However, in the broader context, where Japan was an imperialist, fascist state committing genocide throughout East and Southeast Asia, sure, grind them into dust. Yes, children and certain other classes of civilians are completely innocent and do not deserve to die, their deaths should be mourned and not celebrated, but remember that this applies equally true to the 20+ million people murdered by the Japanese war machine in China alone. That is industrial age genocide that was prosecuted in full view of the public with nary a protest back home. Just as you would bomb Berlin into submission to destroy the fascist machine that committed the Holocaust, bombing Hiroshima becomes a little more justifiable from that view. e: goddamnit just saw the mod post
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Nov 24, 2018 17:34
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It’s almost Hoarse Whisperer levels of smug self-aggrandizing about absolute bullshit that nobody cares about
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Nov 24, 2018 17:34
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Alkydere posted:Apologies, I took a while to write that and missed your post. I will delete it if you desire. Yes you should because that's a lot of 
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Nov 24, 2018 17:37
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